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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Fatdog64-710 Final [4 Dec 2016]
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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drunkjedi


Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Wed 15 Mar 2017, 23:14    Post subject: Re: 10 min review of fatdog  

steff99 wrote:
I also love thunar file manager and the xfce desktop. I tired multiple times to get that working but it was impossible. perhaps a derivitive would go well?
Our friend Gobbi has posted an sfs file for xfce desktop in our contributed software thread.
See following link.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=947746#947746
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3051
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Fri 17 Mar 2017, 15:25    Post subject:  

@drunkjedi - thanks for the info.

@stemsee: What do you want to know? I've some info here: http://lightofdawn.org/wiki/wiki.cgi/SonyLinuxUefiBoot.

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Fatdog64, Slacko and Puppeee user. Puppy user since 2.13.
Contributed Fatdog64 packages thread.
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SFR


Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 1609

PostPosted: Sun 19 Mar 2017, 09:46    Post subject:  

Another review: https://itsfoss.com/fatdog64-linux-review/

Greetings!

_________________
[O]bdurate [R]ules [D]estroy [E]nthusiastic [R]ebels => [C]reative [H]umans [A]lways [O]pen [S]ource
Omnia mea mecum porto.
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3051
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Mon 20 Mar 2017, 03:17    Post subject:  

Nice review. Thank you for the info.
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Fatdog64, Slacko and Puppeee user. Puppy user since 2.13.
Contributed Fatdog64 packages thread.
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dr. Dan

Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon 20 Mar 2017, 21:33    Post subject:  

@jamesbond: Thanks for the getjava update! Will xfe be updated soon? There's a useful bug fix.

I've modified that battery script, in hopes of greater usability. Anyone's feedback will be appreciated.

Dan
fatdog-battery-applet.sh.test2.gz
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_gg


Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu 23 Mar 2017, 05:18    Post subject: Re: Question about humongous initrd and base sfs file sizes  

jd7654 wrote:

And I always split out the fd64.sfs from the humongous initrd due to the booting being so painfully slow on all the machines I tried it on.


Furthermore, netbooks like Acer Aspire ES1-132 with UEFI don't load humungous initrd at all, resulting in "error: couldn't find suitable memory target", but small initrd loads OK. Since this netbook model requires at least 4.9 kernel (yet last available for Fatdog 710 is 4.7.1) the new Fatdog release IMHO shall have small initrd on ISO.

Also, according to this: https://community.acer.com/t5/E-F-and-M-Series-Laptops/ES1-132-cannot-install-other-OS-than-Windows-10-BIOS-options/m-p/490737/highlight/true#M15238 EFI install is specific for these models.

Regards
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3051
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Fri 24 Mar 2017, 14:05    Post subject:  

Quote:
Furthermore, netbooks like Acer Aspire ES1-132 with UEFI don't load humungous initrd at all, resulting in "error: couldn't find suitable memory target", but small initrd loads OK.
Curious, since it has 2G of memory. But it is what it is, some UEFI implemention is really odd.

Quote:
Since this netbook model requires at least 4.9 kernel (yet last available for Fatdog 710 is 4.7.1) the new Fatdog release IMHO shall have small initrd on ISO.
We don't have a kernel higher than 4.4.x yet. Anything higher than 4.4.x are actually "test" kernels; and all of them have problems one or another. Kirk may be coming out to compile newer kernels soon.

Quote:
Also, according to this: https://community.acer.com/t5/E-F-and-M-Series-Laptops/ES1-132-cannot-install-other-OS-than-Windows-10-BIOS-options/m-p/490737/highlight/true#M15238 EFI install is specific for these models.
Tell me about it .... all UEFI BIOS **have** problems one way or another.


@Dr. Dan: I will test your script (in time ... hopefully soon).

I've uploaded the latest XFE. It requires updated FOX toolkit too, make sure you get 1.6.53 (if you do it from gslapt this should be automatic).

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_gg


Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri 24 Mar 2017, 15:38    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:

all UEFI BIOS **have** problems one way or another.

fyi here is full log of my experiment:
1) i dd'ed official fatdog710 iso to flash drive.
2) booted it as usb hdd.
3) passed refind efi menu then grub menu.
4) at stage of loading initrd: "error: couldn't find suitable memory target" and kernel panic about missing initrd after 2 minutes of blank screen.
5) remastered iso with small initrd and dd'ed to flash.
6) new iso wasn't "visible" to uefi.
7) dd'ed official fatdog710 iso back to that flash drive.
8 ) copied vmlinuz, small initrd and fd64.sfs to another flash drive.
9) booted and at stage of grub manually specified boot from second flash drive via cli with args "basesfs=device:sdc1:fd64.sfs"
10) blank screen for more than 10 mins.
11) downloaded fatdog boot images for another kernels, repacked initrd with kernel_modules.sfs, copied to second flash drive and tried to boot them.
12) after several fails with other kernels, fatdog with kernel 4.7.1 boot succeeded after 2 mins of blinking cursor (which was different from blank screens from another kernels).
13) boot was very slow but finally resulted in X started.
14) as hardware is more newer than kernel, got mesa/gallium emulation of dri and not functional touchpad.
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prehistoric


Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 1657

PostPosted: Sat 25 Mar 2017, 11:16    Post subject:  

Once again I have a problem with Fatdog 710 networking.

Background: After recovering data from a hard disk crash, I discovered that the software I was using to reconstruct the system insisted I had to put a GPT label on a 3 TB disk, which I had previously been using with a MSDOS label that only allowed access to 2 TB. The wasted space was not a big issue for me, but the new disk meant it would not boot with the old BIOS on the old machine. I moved the system that I had configured to a newer machine, and set about changing the video and networking.

There is no question about the hardware in this case. The gigabit Ethernet on the newer machine works just fine, even on Fatdog 710 booted with "savefile=none". My problem is how to make Fatdog 710 completely forget about previous networking, so I can set it up from scratch.

At the moment I am running Fatdog 710 and using a USB WiFi adapter to connect, even though I have a functional wired connection. The help documentation seems positively misleading when it comes to changing from one wired connection to a different one without reinstalling from scratch.
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3051
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sat 25 Mar 2017, 13:56    Post subject:  

@_gg: Thank you for listing the steps.

step 4) how much memory does the Acer has? I have a 1GB e-Machine network (also by Acer) which boots with huge initrd. Not saying that it is not a problem, it is; I just want to highlight that some firmware are problematic by nature.

step 5 and 6) I'm surprised to hear that this fails for you. I tested a remaster, including nothing except the basesfs, and I don't edit anything; and choose "small initrd". The resulting ISO is a triple-hybrid ISO like the original and boots on BIOS and UEFI either as ISO, or as "dd"-ed flash drive. I tested this in qemu, again, in real hardware it could be different. But usually qemu is quite good to catch problems like this.

step 9) is exactly one of the reason why I favour huge initrd. Small initrd requires the initrd to find the location of the basesfs; and there are tons of reason why this search can fail.

step 14) yes, if the hardware is newer than the kernel then you definitely needs a new kernel.

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3051
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sat 25 Mar 2017, 14:44    Post subject:  

@prehistoric:
Quote:
The help documentation seems positively misleading when it comes to changing from one wired connection to a different one without reinstalling from scratch.

Indeed. The existing documentation still talks about the old Dougal's "Network Wizard" which has been replaced with "Network Setup". This badly needs updating. The reason for not updating (apart from us being laziness Laughing) is that we'd like to hear problem cases so we can write down the solution for the most common problems.

Quote:
The gigabit Ethernet on the newer machine works just fine, even on Fatdog 710 booted with "savefile=none". My problem is how to make Fatdog 710 completely forget about previous networking, so I can set it up from scratch.


Okay. Let me try to de-mystify this for you.

There are 3 components to "network" persistence (or problems).
First there is udev.
Second there is network-setup.
Third there is WPA GUI.

udev is used by all network stack and is most likely your culprit.
Network-setup is used by wired connection, and by WiFi too if you want to use static IP.
WPA GUI is used only for WiFi with DHCP; and also auto-DHCP for the first wired interface.

_________________

Udev starts by detecting network interface and **recording what it finds** in a file in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules (Note: the actual location of this file **CHANGES** with every udev version, what I write here is valid for Fatdog64 710). Whatever is found first, is recorded as eth0 and wlan0.

If you move to another machine with an existing flash drive, it will find a new interface (say, wired one). It can't assign "eth0" to the new interface, because, well, in its record there is already an existing eth0. So it will create a new interesting "ethXXX" interface which can range from eth1, eth124, or any other random number. (Same with wlan).

How to make sure udev restarts counting from eth0 again? By deleting that /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules file and rebooting.

__________________

Network-Setup is used for assigning IP address to multiple interfaces, wired or wireless.
It is also used to assign static IP addresses.
It has a UI to view existing configuration or to delete them.

For wired, all you have to do is choose the first menu "Configure IP Address" and be done with it.
For wireless, you do the same thing as above, and then choose the second menu "Configure access profile" to configure how we access the wireless (WPA, WPA2, password, etc).

Network-Setup remembers configuration by its interface name. E.g. you configure it for eth0, or for wlan0. If the interface name changes, it will not know how to configure it. E.g. If you configure eth0 in one machine, and bring the flash drive to another, and because of "udev effect" the wired interface on the new machine is now called "eth124", Network-Setup will not see that new configuration (because the configuration it knows is only for eth0). You will need to configure again.

Note 1: that Network-Setup does **NOT** provide auto-DHCP connection for the first wired interface.
You have to configure it, if you want to use it.

Note 2: Network-Setup co-exists with WPA GUI. By default, it will **NOT** configure any wireless interface, even if you ask for it; because it assumes that WPA GUI will take care of that. To let it manage wireless interface, you have to disable WPA GUI.

I don't know how prevalent the static IP is these days. I remember Sage always uses Static IP; but most of the people I know seem to be on DHCP.

_____________________


WPA GUI configures the wireless for DHCP.
Configuration is done by clicking the wireless icon on the system tray.
It also perform DHCP on the first found wired interface, whatever it is.

You can disable WPA GUI by running Network Setup and choose "Disable WPA GUI" item (requires restart).
After you do this, WPA GUI will totally be dead, and everything must be done through Network Setup.

As I said earlier, Network Setup does not do anything to un-configured interface, if you want DHCP for your wired connection you have to configure it.

Note that WPA GUI stores its wireless configuration by SSID only. It does not keep the interface name. It will happily use whatever the first wireless interface it can find, if any. So a configuration for wlan0 will work nicely for wlan4 too (if the machine only has "wlan4" and nothing else). Same with auto-DHCP - the first wired interface found will be used, whatever the name is.

To clear WPA GUI configuration, you just go into the GUI, click the second tab "Manage Networks" and delete them.

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mini-jaguar

Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 574

PostPosted: Sat 25 Mar 2017, 15:31    Post subject:  

I know it's not compatible with the FatDog64 600 series, but it loaded from the hard disk with the same menu and it worked fine.

It's probably been covered before, but why won't it boot from a USB drive?
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prehistoric


Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 1657

PostPosted: Sat 25 Mar 2017, 16:51    Post subject:  

@jamesbond,

Thanks! I'm now back on that system using the new wired interface.

(By the way if you want to learn about an actual secret agent that Ian Fleming knew when he worked for MI6 you might read Zig Zag, which describes one of the more colorful double agents. Others were "Garbo" and "Tricycle". If you want to understand how the U.K. used double agents I recommend Masterman's The Doublecross System of Warfare. Fleming himself was less successful than James Bond. The one time in a c*a*s*i*n*o in Portugal he tried to gamble against Nazi agents he lost his money, and his superior held onto his return airline ticket to make sure he wouldn't pawn that to try again. James Bond started off as fantasy and became less believable as time went on.)

In order to follow your instructions I had to delete not just 70-persistent-net.rules, but also 80-oldpersistent-net.rules. To avoid problems from doing this from a running system, I booted into tahrpup64 6.0.6 and deleted the files in the inactive Fatdog 710 save folder "/etc/udev/rules.d". When I rebooted, the wired network was reconfigured as eth0. I didn't have to tell it to use DHCP, it just came up working.

I'm still not clear on what the damn Network Wizard is telling me. What difference does it make if an interface is "associated" or "activated" if it is impossible to send network traffic across it? How can I tell if the system does or does not have a kernel module for the interface device? Suppose everything in Fatdog is correct, but the device on the other end of the line is having trouble with DHCP. How do you isolate the problem? These are not hypothetical concerns, I've been there.

To avoid ticking off any number of people who do not spend all their free time solving puzzles please consider at least a button that resets everything to do with networking. It should not even require a reboot.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5248
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 26 Mar 2017, 03:11    Post subject:  

Quote:
deleted the files in the inactive *?other distros?* save folder "/etc/udev/rules.d". When I rebooted, the wired network was reconfigured as eth0.

Wondering how general this fix is for other distros? I occasionally find a phantom network show up. I think it can happen if I install on e.g. a machine with a wifi connection and then transfer the HD to a machine with a wired NIC. Can dynamically delete one of the alleged connections but it's never persistent.
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LateAdopter

Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 244
Location: Reading UK

PostPosted: Sun 26 Mar 2017, 05:29    Post subject:  

Hello _gg

If you have Intel hardware that is newer than the kernel, you will probably need the kernel parameter
CORRECTED
Code:
i915.preliminary_hw_support=1
to get the Intel display driver to load.
Last edited by LateAdopter on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 13:07; edited 1 time in total
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