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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
XenialDog 64bit (Ubuntu 'Xenial Xerus' LTS, 64-bit)
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2161

PostPosted: Wed 26 Apr 2017, 18:35    Post subject: Re: ZestyDog64 Mod - Questions about Repo  

mikeslr wrote:
Since I particularly like the xfce window manager especially now that there's a whisper menu

Hi Mike. Isn't Xfce a DE (desktop environment) that sits on top of a Window Manager, such as Openbox (that sits on top of Xorg) ... or does Xfce also have its own Window Manager?

I thought that whiskermenu was a addon ... or at least installable for most of the common desktop environments.

I like the Openbox WM. Using that alone at present (no Tint2/LXDE/Xfce/KDE/Gnome, no panels ...etc.) ... Just a systray/notification popout (stalonetray) and openbox menus, along with Skippy-XD (launched by brightside hot corner tool).

Right click the desktop to bring up OpenBox menu. Set OpenBox configuration 'Margin' to leave a pixel or two width on the left hand screen edge and the menus easily accessible even if a window is full screened (and/or just have it activated by the Menu key or whatever (opposite side of the spacebar to where the Window/Special key is located).
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2005
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Wed 26 Apr 2017, 22:58    Post subject:  

Hi rufwoof,

Xfce is a windows manager. Other than XP's explorer and Puppy's original versions using jwm, it's the first one I was exposed to. That was running jemimah's Saluki. Xfce requires slightly more resources than openbox; an insignificant amount on current computers; less than gnome.

I hate wading thru menus, especially to launch the 10 or so applications I most frequently use. And to launch applications from desktop icons almost always requires that the window of an already opened application be minimized or moved. Besides, desktop icons almost always detract from the aesthetics of whatever wallpaper I've chosen. So, whenever possible I opt for panels which can be hidden until moused-over.

Unlike openbox onto which you have to add panels, such as tint2 or lxpanel, as far as I know, xfce includes the ability to open several; perhaps a reason why it requires slightly more resources than openbox. Adding launchers to xfce's panels is slightly less intuitive than to lxpanel. And as xfce doesn't provide desktop drive icons, one has to get used to opening windows to drives/partitions by first opening Thunar, the file manager usually used with xfce. Moreover, as xfce is the windows manager, some of the libraries required by openbox or jwm and dependencies of applications built to run under those aren't present. The foregoing explains why I've generally preferred openbox.

Whisper Menus makes the difference, especially on DebianDogs. Because you can use apt or synaptic to acquire dependencies, obtaining a functional application for one window manager is no different than for another. If there's anything I don't like about the DebianDogs, it's that their menus are even more unwieldier than Puppy's. The attached photo shows how whisper menu makes that difference: What gets assigned to the Favorites category is decided by the user.

Whisker Menu is not xfce's default menu. But most Puppy and Dog devs have provided it as an addition to or substitute for the default menu -- something you simply add to a panel. IIRC, in only one instance did I have to download it using synaptic.

I've looked and been unable to find any other window manager under which Whisper menu will run; and no comparable menu available under any other window manager; at least not without engaging in a lot of manual customizations each time you run a different operating system. And only Radky's Fbbox provides anything comparable in terms of the ease of accessing applications.

mikesLr
whiskermenu-default.png
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whiskermenu-default.png

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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2161

PostPosted: Thu 27 Apr 2017, 00:03    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
I hate wading thru menus, especially to launch the 10 or so applications I most frequently use. And to launch applications from desktop icons almost always requires that the window of an already opened application be minimized or moved. Besides, desktop icons almost always detract from the aesthetics of whatever wallpaper I've chosen. So, whenever possible I opt for panels which can be hidden until moused-over.

Hi Mike

With openbox menus you can define the exact layout of the menus, and have a sub menu (such as 'Debian' where the more 'normal' menu structure (automated) is replicated. In effect define your favourites and the order they're presented. The menu can also be via hot-key ... I have mine set to the Menu button (like the Windows button but on the opposite side of the spacebar). I set openbox Margins for the left screen edge to leave a few pixels width free, so when windows are maximised you can mouse over to the left screen edge and either right-click to present the menu, or middle click to select the desktop. Openbox menus work with character pressing as well, so with the menu open if I press T it automatically jumps to the Terminal choice and if there are no other T's in the menu it actually launches it (otherwise repeated pressing of T steps between the multiple T choices, Terminal and Transmission for instance if they were both in the menu).

Or just have your usual programs automatically loaded at startup and when minimised there's no sign of them on the display at all ... and use something like skippy-xd where when you mouse into the bottom left corner (using brightside to set that corner/action) and the windows are presented in a tiled manner ready for you to select one (you can even minimise by right clicking a window in the tiled set, or close the window using middle-click)


(animated gif of a handful of screenshots)

Some that use Openbox alone use docks that auto-hide to hold their regularly launched programs.

Also has the potential to be even more minimalist to leave the desktop empty and windows without title bars.
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1340
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Thu 27 Apr 2017, 02:38    Post subject:  

Hi mikeslr !

Quote:
I've looked and been unable to find any other window manager under which Whisper menu will run; and no comparable menu available under any other window manager; at least not without engaging in a lot of manual customizations each time you run a different operating system. And only Radky's Fbbox provides anything comparable in terms of the ease of accessing applications.


There is something in E17 (Enlightenment Desktop ) similar to Whisker-Menu...
it is called "Everything Starter " .
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 2585
Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 27 Apr 2017, 07:22    Post subject:  

Hi Mike,

Quote:
Fred: After you published XenialDog64, you posted a couple of fixes. They also appear on the 2nd post of this thread. Are they included, necessary or recommended for your mod of ZestyDog64.


No, you don't have to do anything (besides frisbee install you did), these fixes are for XenialDog openbox, btw, remaster-scripts is already upgraded on Zesty64.
The 4th fix from second post (encrypted save) doesn't work on Zesty.

Quote:
Whisker Menu is not xfce's default menu. But most Puppy and Dog devs have provided it as an addition to or substitute for the default menu -- something you simply add to a panel. IIRC, in only one instance did I have to download it using synaptic.

I've looked and been unable to find any other window manager under which Whisper menu will run


The Whisker Menu is a plugin for xfce4-panel, so if you install it (and the xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin) it can be used on any distro.
You may know already but "xfce4-appfinder" is very similar, here's demo (also I enjoy my recent discovery to show here as animated gif Smile )
xfce4-appfinder on XenialDog64:


Fred

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The Flying Cat

Joined: 10 Oct 2016
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu 27 Apr 2017, 10:07    Post subject:  

Hello mikeslr Smile
If you want to add (compatible) PPA to Zesty, via command at least, it goes like this:
add-apt-repository ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers
ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers xenial -> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ppa_oibaf_graphics-drivers.list
...
Success: 'http://ppa.launchpad.net/oibaf/graphics-drivers/ubuntu xenial main' is added to the repositories

There should be 'zesty' instead. And PPA will use xenial dependencies... So just erase 'xenial' and write 'zesty' in the config file or via gui (Software & Updates) manually before updating or installing anything after adding PPA.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2005
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 27 Apr 2017, 14:32    Post subject:  

Thanks, The Flying Cat. Very helpful. Smile


Thanks, rufwoof, backi and fred for the information regarding the capabilities of other window-managers and their addons.

mikesLr
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 2585
Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 27 Apr 2017, 14:59    Post subject:  

For clarity about add-apt-repository, there are two on ZestyDog:
Code:
root@zesty64:~/Desktop# whereis add-apt-repository
add-apt-repository: /usr/bin/add-apt-repository /usr/local/bin/add-apt-repository
root@zesty64:~/Desktop#

- The one in /usr/local/bin is from XenialDog, which is a self made script (to avoid installing lots of dependencies), the default is "xenial", but works for other releases if you add add the name as argument, like this:
Code:
add-apt-repository ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers zesty

- The one in /usr/bin is the official (part of package "software-properties")
Since the official is installed it's best to rename or delete /usr/local/bin/add-apt-repository (as /usr/local/bin is first in PATH), then instead the official will be used and this is better because it detects the release automatically, so no need to add it to the command, just:
Code:
add-apt-repository ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers


Fred

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The Flying Cat

Joined: 10 Oct 2016
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri 28 Apr 2017, 02:53    Post subject:  

Ooh, neat:) Thank you, Fred!
I guess I'll update original post, just in case)
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 2585
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 15 May 2017, 07:03    Post subject:  

Hi All,

New versions of packages:
- quick-remaster, version 1.0.8, added option to create ISO from frugal install, see more info here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=954454#954454
And here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=954539#954539
Install from terminal:
Code:
apt-get update
apt-get install quick-remaster


- Fix for xenialdoginstall script, see backi's post here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=954687#954687
And reply here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=954700#954700
Install from terminal version 1.0.9:
Code:
apt-get update
apt-get install xenialdoginstallscripts


Or install from Synaptic

Added to Changes and Fixes list (5 and 6)

Fred

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Doglover

Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 262
Location: Humboldt

PostPosted: Mon 15 May 2017, 14:50    Post subject:  

Nice job Fred. I'm liking the Zesty because youtube audio doesn't work in Xenial. Also audacious is updated which is the best of all.

Full install
64g cruzer usb3
Hp Pavilion amd quad running at 2000
16g ram
pulse audio is best

This stick screams past anything else. Just as fast as a hd install.
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1340
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Tue 16 May 2017, 00:45    Post subject:  

Hi Doglover !

You did a full Install to your Usb-Stick ? Is it correct ?

It is recommended to do a " frugal " Install with the "Dogs " and Puppy Linux on
UsB and Hard-drive too .It is also faster and more easier to backup .

I am not sure if doing a full Install is a good Idea .... there would be constant writing to the Stick ,which , so some People say ,will cause your stick wearing out faster.
But maybe somebody else knows more about it .

Regards !
Here is some Discussion about this Topic :
https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2032379
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Doglover

Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 262
Location: Humboldt

PostPosted: Tue 16 May 2017, 09:26    Post subject:  

Hi Backi.... yep it's a full install.
Boots in 11 seconds and shuts down in 3.
I really don't care about writes to the stick, it should last five years.
Firefox loads in about 6 seconds. yay

Try it you will like it.
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1340
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Tue 16 May 2017, 09:48    Post subject:  

Hi Doglover !
" Boots in 11 seconds and shuts down in 3.Firefox loads in about 6 seconds "

I'm not that much in a hurry Doglover .
But maybe i try it .....out of curiosity ...... sounds cool . Very Happy Very Happy

What about a frugal Install to Stick ......and booted with copy to Ram (copy2ram) option .........should be even faster with that 16 gigs of Ram .
Your system then should work even faster than Light .
Maybe Firefox would even start without touching Keyboard .
(just kidding Laughing Laughing Laughing )

Me.... i would do that ........ if i could .....

But just 1 gig of Ram Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad .
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Doglover

Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 262
Location: Humboldt

PostPosted: Tue 16 May 2017, 10:44    Post subject:  

Hi Backi...

Full install boots up entirely in ram, any changes are stored in ram until shutdown.

Frugal install.... savefile needs to be .dat, and it takes a minute or so to finish the write. If you opt for a save folder, then it will write to the hd and I don't want that.

Cheers
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