Puppy linux frugal installation, problem booting [Solved]

[LidiaS]

If you are in a hurry, and do not want to get to the bottom of this, you may do a complete new installation. You would probably loose less time. And consider just one installation.
Reformat with gParted to remove all leftovers first.
If you need some help installing a puppy, please ask. It can be done very quickly, since you have it on usb.

Great, I think that's what I will do. What do you mean by 'reformatting with gParted'?

I guess I would install the puppy from puppy install as I did before, but this time choose a full installation on a partition rather than the frugal one. Does this sound about right?

Thanks!

[foxpup]

You should reformat your sda1 where you will install your distribution. That's what Rufus also does, or any installer, to clear the partition. With this booting troubles, you should definitly do it!
You can use gparted from your puppy on usb to do it.
WARNING: REFORMATTING WITH GPARTED OR ANY OTHER TOOL WILL ENTIRELY WHIPE OUT ANYTHING ON YOUR PARTITION!!!
FIRST BACKUP ANY ESSENTIAL DATA

USE AS A LAST RESORT ONLY!!!

I never do a full install for puppy (except for Gamer/legacy).
Frugal is quite easy. Put the iso of your puppy on the usb you made with rufus. You can do it in the windows you used for rufus.
Boot your puppy from usb in your linux machine. Reformat the partition for your linux installations with gparted (menu, system), use ext3.
Create a map, name it.
Go to the icon on your desktop for your usb (sdb1?) and click on it. Click on the iso and mount it. Drag (copy) initrd.gz, vmlinuz, puppy_tahr_6.0.5.sfs, zdrv_tahr_6.0.5.sfs from the iso to your map. Run grub4dos from menu, system and install grub4dos on sda1. Close your computer and boot from hdd. (you have to go into bios (F12 or del or F2) to set the order for booting) It should boot.
At the end of your first session you will be offered to make a save-file (pupsave). Do it.

[theru]

It looks like there are some leftovers from a previous bootloader that are interfering with the grub4dos install.

The /mbr switch seems to be for the windows version of fdisk. It basically wipes the mbr and overwrites it with it's own bootloader. There is a way to do the same in linux but it uses the dd command which, if used incorrectly, can wipe everything on the drive so I recommend to create a backup before trying it.

Disclaimer: the following is based on what I've read here. I haven't tried it myself but it should work.

First we need to create a backup of mbr + partition table (make sure the drive isn't mounted):

Code: Select all

dd if=/dev/sdX of=/root/mbr.bin bs=512 count=1

Replace X with the drive you want to work on.

Next we need to clear the mbr but not touch the partition table:

Code: Select all

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX bs=446 count=1

This *should* zero out only the mbr and not the partition table. After that you can try installing grub4dos to the mbr. It should work now.

Should it go wrong and you need to restore your partition table then you can do this with the following command:

Code: Select all

dd if=/root/mbr.bin of=/dev/sdX bs=512 count=1

Hope this helps

[LidiaS]

You should reformat your sda1 where you will install your distribution. That's what Rufus also does, or any installer, to clear the partition. With this booting troubles, you should definitly do it!
You can use gparted from your puppy on usb to do it.

I never do a full install for puppy (except for Gamer/legacy).
Frugal is quite easy. Put the iso of your puppy on the usb you made with rufus. You can do it in the windows you used for rufus.
Boot your puppy from usb in your linux machine. Reformat the partition for your linux installations with gparted (menu, system), use ext3.
Create a map, name it.
Go to the icon on your desktop for your usb (sdb1?) and click on it. Click on the iso and mount it. Drag (copy) initrd.gz, vmlinuz, puppy_tahr_6.0.5.sfs, zdrv_tahr_6.0.5.sfs from the iso to your map. Run grub4dos from menu, system and install grub4dos on sda1. Close your computer and boot from hdd. (you have to go into bios (F12 or del or F2) to set the order for booting) It should boot.
At the end of your first session you will be offered to make a save-file (pupsave). Do it.

Sorry, I am really afraid I will mess up.

I open gParted but I do not see a button of formatting! Just sda1 etc.

For the reinstallation, I don't understand: the iso is already in the USB! This is the same USB I've been using all along. Then I completely lose you: I don't know how to reformat, I don't see ext3 (only ext4), I don't know how to make a map. The rest maybe I can follow.

I think I am beyond saving and I should just reinstall Lubuntu and stick to easier things. I'm only thinking about the fuss of reinstalling full Latex. Anyway! Thanks again and sorry for being so bad at this. I

[foxpup]

A remark concerning the problem you encountered.

If you want to install multiple OS on one machine, you should stop the second and folowing installations where they install their bootloader. It is better to run the installation of the bootloader, in this case grub4dos, from/on the very first installation again.

When you want both windows and linux however, you could install windows first and linux next and let linux also take care of setting up the booting. Although I would not recommend it even then; there other non-intrusive ways.
(You gave one yourself where you quote about wee, but it is not the best method.)

[LidiaS]

First we need to create a backup of mbr + partition table (make sure the drive isn't mounted):

Code: Select all

dd if=/dev/sdX of=/root/mbr.bin bs=512 count=1

Replace X with the drive you want to work on.

Thanks so much for your reply. But I am a bit confused, and sorry for being slow: how am I going to unmount sda, if that's where I want to do the things you say? I tried from gparted, see attached picture in my reply above. When I try to unmount, it says it cannot do it because dev_save is busy!

[theru]

If I understand correctly you're booting from the usb but the savefile is on the harddrive. In this case you need to boot without using the savefile. The boot option pfix=ram should do that.

Assuming you're booting to a pup menu similar to attached picture (the image may be different) you need to press f2 as soon as the menu pops up and type puppy pfix=ram This will skip the savefile and boot to a new session.

Edit: And you don't need gparted to unmount partitions. You can do that by right-clicking on the drive icon on the desktop and selecting "unmount". Alternatively you can also use Pmount which you can find in the menu under Filesystem.

[Galbi]

Hey, wait...

Do you want to keep your Lubuntu installation, don't you?
So, don't do a full installation of Puppy alongside with Lubuntu, it will be a mess, and you will end with two unusable OS.

Puppy frugally installed in it's own folder can coexist with other linuxes without problems, but frugal not full installed. (imagine installing Windows XP and Windows 7 in the same Windows folder).

Be carefull with Gparted, you can delete everything!!!

Here it's necesary to restore the MBR, it can be done by formatting, but it's a bit drastical.

[LidiaS]

If I understand correctly you're booting from the usb but the savefile is on the harddrive. In this case you need to boot without using the savefile. The boot option pfix=ram should do that.

Assuming you're booting to a pup menu similar to attached picture (the image may be different) you need to press f2 as soon as the menu pops up and type puppy pfix=ram This will skip the savefile and boot to a new session.

Edit: And you don't need gparted to unmount partitions. You can do that by right-clicking on the drive icon on the desktop and selecting "unmount". Alternatively you can also use Pmount which you can find in the menu under Filesystem.

Thanks for the explanation. I did everything carefully, with the dd's, then I rebooted and wee messages are still there

[foxpup]

theru is posting at the same time:-)

Read last line of this post

If you still would want to/have to install frugally, I try to explain better :
Don't worry about messing up. It is very hard to do

I open gParted but I do not see a button of formatting! Just sda1 etc.

It is under Partition, or when you rightclick on the line.
WARNING: REFORMATTING WITH GPARTED OR ANY OTHER TOOL WILL ENTIRELY WHIPE OUT ANYTHING ON YOUR PARTITION!!!
FIRST BACKUP ANY ESSENTIAL DATA

USE AS A LAST RESORT ONLY!!!

For the reinstallation, I don't understand: the iso is already in the USB!

You installed the iso on the usb with rufus, you did not COPY it. You want initrd.gz, vmlinuz, puppy_tahr_6.0.5.sfs, zdrv_tahr_6.0.5.sfs from inside the iso and not from the installation (they are in use!) . So just put the iso on the usb, so you can get to it.

I don't know how to make a map.

After reformatting sda1 (set the boot flag too if it is not there yet) you can close gparted. Then on the desktop click on the icon for sda1 to mount it (it has to be unmounted when you are in gparted; if not rightclick on the icon on the desktop...) , rightclick somewhere on the empty sda1 directory and choose new, map from the menu.

I think I am beyond saving

You do not do it yourself, would be very hard to do . I mean you let puppy do it for you. You will have to make some choices. You should choose a file and not a folder/map. [edited] if you want to use a big program like Latex, you probably choose folder/map [edited]

fuss of reinstalling full Latex

It is not a common thing to install. I saw this:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 1&start=70 Look for the posts of emil
But it is more then 5 years old. If you do not want to use it, you would have to get it by hand [edited] not by hand, you can use the package manager [edited] from the packages of ubuntu or debian.

If you want to use something that big, you could do a full install of puppy anyway!!!
Copy the iso of your puppy on the usb , next to the installation on the usb (see above).
Let the puppy universal installer do the full installation.
[edited] correction: still better frugal, but with pupsavefolder
thanks theru[edited]

[LidiaS]

You should reformat your sda1 where you will install your distribution. That's what Rufus also does, or any installer, to clear the partition. With this booting troubles, you should definitly do it!
You can use gparted from your puppy on usb to do it.

Ok I now found how to reformat with gparted. However, does this mean that all my data will be erased? From Lubuntu as well? Sorry for the (non-)depth of my questions.

[foxpup]

Thanks for the explanation. I did everything carefully, with the dd's, then I rebooted and wee messages are still there

Just another idea. Would it be possible to do the installation of lubuntu again, with the original iso/usb/dvd, not installing, but reparing?

[foxpup]

You should reformat your sda1 where you will install your distribution. That's what Rufus also does, or any installer, to clear the partition. With this booting troubles, you should definitly do it!
You can use gparted from your puppy on usb to do it.

Ok I now found how to reformat with gparted. However, does this mean that all my data will be erased? From Lubuntu as well? Sorry for the (non-)depth of my questions.

Yes it does mean that everything will be gone. Dont do it if you are not sure you want to start all, ALL, over.

[theru]

Thanks for the explanation. I did everything carefully, with the dd's, then I rebooted and wee messages are still there

You didn't restore the partition table, did you? This would undo all the zeroing/reinstalling of the mbr and is only meant for when the process fails and you end up losing all of your partitions.

I once had a boot failure with windows. Only after 3 attempts did the repair tool manage to restore the mbr.

I really hope we get this sorted without needing to reformat everything.

And I agree about a frugally installed puppy. I have several on my harddrive alongside windows which I rarely need these days.

And when you use a linux partition then you can use a savefolder. This folder doesn't have a fixed size can grow as large as the space on your harddrive allows.

[foxpup]

To make it even more confusing another thought:
Do you have unallocated space on your drive? Or a partition you do not use? You could make a full install of puppy there.

But that will not solve the problem of your machine not booting from hdd.

However. If you give the boot flag to that other partition (with puppy installed or not), you could set the new partition up with grub4dos to take care of booting from the hdd. I would boot lubuntu as well.

Any other ideas?

Or let the usb stick bootup the installations on the hdd. Rufus probably installs syslinux on the usb.

[mikeslr]

Hi Lidia5,

Before doing something radical, let's try something simple. You may have tried it before, but it pays to make certain that everything was done in the correct order.

1. Boot into Tahrpup following theru's suggestion. As soon as Tahrpup begins to boot, press f2 and type puppy pfix=ram.

2. Just above the Taskbar, at the far left you'll see two icons, one with the name sda1, the other with the name sdb1.

3. Left-click the sdb1 icon. A window will open showing the contents of your USB-Stick. You should see both a file named gldr and another named menu.lst.

4. Put your mouse-cursor on the title of the window which opened, Left-Press and drag the window to the top-left of your screen.

5. Left-click the sda1 icon, opening a window to its contents. If necessary, move the two windows so that you can see the gldr and menu.lst files in the sdb1 window, and an empty space in the sda1 window.

6. Place your mouse-cursor on menu.lst in the sdb1, press, then drag it to an empty space in the sda1 window. Release the mouse and a menu will pop up. Select copy.

7. Now do the same with the gldr file. If asked, allow an over-write.

The above is the solution if the problem was that you have the "base" Tahrpup files on your USB-Stick but your SaveFile on the hard-drive. Unless you boot "pfix=ram", every time you boot into Tahrpup it mounts the drives on which its files are located, and grub4dos can't write to a mounted drive.

If your system won't allow you to copy menu.lst from sdb1 to sda1, then there's some more complicated problem.

mikesLr

[theru]

It's true that grldr is needed for grub4dos to work. Are the files mikeslr mentioned present on sda1 after running grub4dos installer? And are they bigger then 0 bytes?

In gparted when you right-click on sda1 and select manage flags you can toggle the boot flag. Is it on?

[foxpup]

The above is the solution if the problem was that you have the "base" Tahrpup files on your USB-Stick but your SaveFile on the hard-drive. Unless you boot "pfix=ram", every time you boot into Tahrpup it mounts the drives on which its files are located, and grub4dos can't write to a mounted drive.

@mikeslr: Good thinking! I hope it is that simple. Shouldn't grub4dos also rewrite the boot record on sda1? That too must have failed then.
The solution would then simply be to delete the pupsave from sda1 and rerun grub4dos. Right?

[mikeslr]

Hi again Lidia5,

What we are trying to preserve is your Lubuntu installation, and especially any files you created or stored within it: photos, documents, music files, etc.

Using gparted to clear any left-over files which may be preventing grub4dos from writing to sda will also delete Lubuntu and any and every file on sda.

And I still don't know some basic information. What exactly did you do to install Lubuntu? If you had to, are you able to do it again?

When grub4dos creates a menu.lst, it always provides a listing for Windows, even if you don't have Windows on your computer. [Don't ask me why; I didn't write the program]. But does your hard-drive also have an installation of Windows in addition to Lubuntu?

If your computer can run Tahrpup, there is no reason to ever do a Full Install of any Puppy. Ever. Puppies were originally created to run from a CD. They evolved to run from a hard-drive or a USB-drive "as if" such drive were a CD. That is why Puppies only need a folder on a drive. 6 or 7 years ago, when computers were sold with less than 256 Mbs of Random Access Memory and a single-core weak-by-today's-standard computer processing unit, it could take a significant amount of time to boot into a Puppy. Someone figured out that it would take less time if Puppy was installed "like" other Linux distros. On a more recent, more powerful computer the difference in boot time is measured in seconds, maybe milliseconds. Tahrpup requires more computer resources than are found on computers which benefited by Full Installs. And Puppies aren't like other distros. They are designed to treat "storage" and Random Access Memory as a Unity, writing and reading from "storage" as and when convenient. Puppies, coming from a CD which couldn't be written to, are designed to "run in RAM". That's one of the reasons for their speed. They only read from storage when necessary and, now, write to storage rarely. A Full install removes Puppies advantages, and add complicating disadvantages not found either in the Frugal Install of a Puppy or a normal install of a distro designed to be a "Full Install."

Now that you can boot Tahrpup from a USB-Stick, it will take less than 5 minutes to do a Frugal install to your hard-drive, if we can solve the problem of writing grub4dos and its menu.lst to that drive; and you actually want to have Puppy on your drive. The procedure is simple:

1. Create a folder on the hard-drive with a unique name, e.g. tahr2.
2. Copy tahrpup's files (except the SaveFile) from the USB-Stick into that folder.
3. Run grub4dos.
4, Unplug the USB-stick.
5. Reboot into tahrpup on the hard-drive.
6. Plug in the USB-Stick; and
7. Copy the SaveFile from the USB-stick into the tahr2 folder.
8. Reboot.

mikesLr

[LidiaS]

In general yes, I wouldn't want to lose Lubuntu as well if possible. It's not that I have important files, I have everything at DropBox, it's just other installations of programs that will take some time. I will surely reinstall Lubuntu again if I have to, for the time being. I honestly don't remember which .iso I had used, but I always do it from bootable USBs.

Before doing something radical, let's try something simple. You may have tried it before, but it pays to make certain that everything was done in the correct order.

Unfortunately the two files you mention are not in the sdb1, but in sda1. See attached. Does this say something? And they are not 0 bytes too. The flag 'boot' has always been at sda, yes.