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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
How not to install Puppy on a Windows10 ACER F552L Laptop
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jmaymig

Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun 05 Mar 2017, 17:06    Post subject:  How not to install Puppy on a Windows10 ACER F552L Laptop
Subject description: Avoiding Windows to set booting device priority
 

Hello,

Could anyone give me some help with this

After messing with some linux distros over the years, I was amazed with puppy simplicity and ease of use for a non expert computer user.

Have used puppy the last years, with a Win7 Acer Eee PC, very easy to use from the flash disk with no need to hard disk install. If I wanted to use puppy, I just had to insert the hard disk and reboot.

Now I have an Acer F552L laptop which came with Win8.1 and that runs now Win10. I would like to do the same and be able to use puppy without having to install it to the hard disk.

But I dont know if this is possible. I have entered the BIOS several times, forcing a reboot from windows settings to change UEFI. Once in the BIOS, I have activated LAUNCH CSM, and have disabled SECURE BOOT CONTROL. At the boot priority I set first the USB and then the windows boot loader. But every time Windows 10 is booted, this priority I set gets erased, and windows bootloader gets first position again.

Does anybody know if there is a way to set the boot priority you desire in win10, and keep it saved, or prevent windows or UEFI from changing the boot settings every time?

Thanks
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2897
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Sun 05 Mar 2017, 18:24    Post subject:  

First, the booting is controlled by UEFI which was pushed by Red Hat and MS and it is that that you need to control.
Booting comes before the OS.
If it is the later UEFI you will need to get the code that enables secure boot.
There are a couple of Puppies that work.

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peterw

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 257
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun 05 Mar 2017, 19:12    Post subject: Selecting boot device
Subject description: Try other keys when booting
 

Hi
Selecting the boot device is not as easy as it once was. You need to make sure that it is booting from cold and not from some suspend state. I have found that on some machines I have had to quickly and continually press F10, F11 and F12 at the same time to get a screen up which ask me to select boot device. Also, I have found that if it is a USB3 socket it may not (depending on usb stick) recognise it. You may have to go through and try the various UEFI options for the usb devices.
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Gordie

Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sun 05 Mar 2017, 21:00    Post subject:  

Sounds like Windows10 is controlling the BIOS settings. Is there any way in the Control Panel to make the changes you need?
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2897
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Mon 06 Mar 2017, 08:13    Post subject:  

Windows 10 is no more controlling the BIOS than Linux does.
When you install Puppy it changes the boot process as does installing any other OS.
AS I said, Red Hat LINUX and Microsoft conned the committee into forcing secure boot on new machines.
This means that it is difficult to install ANY OS that hasn't been approved and it costs money to get that approval.

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Gordie

Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Mon 06 Mar 2017, 13:37    Post subject:  

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5831-uefi-firmware-settings-boot-inside-windows-10-a.html

I search with DuckDuckGo and find many more pages describing how to change these settings from Windows Control Panel than from BIOS/CMOS settings. My point is that Windows might be changing things back every time it is rebooted. Sure seems like it
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2897
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Mon 06 Mar 2017, 13:53    Post subject:  

That does not mean it is a Windows function.
Like a lot of software, there is more available for Windows than other things.
That is not to say it is necessarily better.
It is also far more likely that people will have a Windows 10 machine than they are a Red Hat one.
PC manufacturers are HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED by Microsoft and Red Hat - especially in the US.


It is well known that if you enable FAST BOOT in Windows 10 it bypasses the BIOS options and boots into what is effectively a saved session. You CAN still force it to enter the "BIOS" if you like, but if you alter any of the files that Windows expects to be untouched, you may get errors.
I cannot see why anyone would want to use that dangerous option just to save a few seconds in boot time.

It is a real shame that Red Hat and Microsoft were allowed to stitch up the market, but that is partly the Home user communities' fault for not making their voice heard loudly enough when it was mooted in the first place.

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jmaymig

Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon 06 Mar 2017, 17:46    Post subject:  

Gordie wrote:
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5831-uefi-firmware-settings-boot-inside-windows-10-a.html

I search with DuckDuckGo and find many more pages describing how to change these settings from Windows Control Panel than from BIOS/CMOS settings. My point is that Windows might be changing things back every time it is rebooted. Sure seems like it


Exact. The tutorial procedure is what I do to be able to enter the BIOS.

I change boot priority to set it to USB first, save and exit BIOS, and it works while I have the puppy stick plugged in. But as I unplugg it and boot windows, windows OS changes back settings to boot windows first.

Any idea to correct this anoying windows behaviour? Thanks everybody so far...
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jd7654

Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 242

PostPosted: Mon 06 Mar 2017, 21:16    Post subject:  

Quote:
...and it works while I have the puppy stick plugged in. But as I unplugg it and boot windows, windows OS changes back settings to boot windows first.


Welcome to the club.

That's the same way mine behaves. I believe it's written in the UEFI firmware of your PC. Not a bug, but a feature.(to make non-Windows intentionally difficult)

Do you have a hot key? Mine is volume down to bring up the boot device menu.

Last edited by jd7654 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 00:06; edited 1 time in total
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tincan

Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue 07 Mar 2017, 00:00    Post subject: win 10
Subject description: boot puppy
 

On my pc = win 10 ASUS x540s I had disable fast boot or Launch enable CSM IN BIOS then boot into win 10 goto settings I think it was hardware then everywhere you can find sleep function set it to never. Then windows should shutdown totally fastboot skips bios because it is only in hibernate.
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2897
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Tue 07 Mar 2017, 13:36    Post subject:  

I believe that UEFI was written to allow the change of boot for ONE occurance only.
I don't think anyone realized just how much Red Hat and MS were stuffing the home computing market.

It was very cleverly managed in that it was only advisory for a year and people got used to being able to bypass it quite easily, so they didn't create too much of a fuss.
Now it is compulsory in all pre-installed machines it is too late to do anything about it.

I actually don't know how it affects a build it yourself machine, but I can't see manufacturers producing two seperate Boot systems for a MOBO

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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 238
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 15:41    Post subject:  

jd7654 wrote:
Quote:
...and it works while I have the puppy stick plugged in. But as I unplugg it and boot windows, windows OS changes back settings to boot windows first.


Welcome to the club.

That's the same way mine behaves.

I bootup puppylinux (several flavors) the same way on a win10 machine: from grub4dos on a usb stick. My main puppyfiles (mainpup.sfs, pupsave.3fs, xxx.sfs, portables) are on the SSD, kernel and init are on the usb.
Reading this, I remembered I used to have same thing, but not anymore. I do not remember exactly what I did, but I think it was this:
choose 'legacy' in the bios, anywhere possible

I've added photos of the 2 pages of interest of my bios. So, in my bios there are 3 lines to look at:
1 in Configuration: usb legacy enabled
2 in Boot: boot mode legacy support and boot priority legacy first
I remember I tried to force usb first with the setup under Legacy. But it did not work. On the photo the usb is visible because it is inserted and I can move it up (or down). But it isn't there anymore when it is not inserted on next bootup, and it is not in the place it was before when inserted again for another bootup. This list is not persistant. I think it is just a fifo (first in, first out). Now I totally ignore it.

I hope this helps to get your bootup right, right for puppy Wink
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Limbomusic


Joined: 15 Apr 2016
Posts: 188
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Thu 17 Aug 2017, 17:44    Post subject: imho
Subject description: keep uefi
 

In my humble opinion, you should keep UEFI. Just find a puppy distro that says uefi in the name and make a bootable pendrive with rufus / isobooter. The only thing in the bios u need to change is "secure boot" - that MUST be disabled.
There is also normally no need to mess in bios with boot device order. You should be able to press a key (tap coninuously) immediately on booting machine. Check the boot menu cheat sheet here:
http://helledussen.com/linux/docs/boot_common_keys_and_uefi.html
-edit- I made an updated one: http://helledussen.com/linux/docs/boot-keys.html --
In my experience F9 works often with acers (might also have to hold down "Fn"-key on some.)
But if u get "windows hibernated partition" when booting from pendrive u need to boot win10. Rightclick windowsbutton - click -Powershell-Admin - and in the terminal type in:
powercfg - h off
This turns off hibernation and u should be able to boot from the usb pendrive.

Last edited by Limbomusic on Fri 18 Aug 2017, 13:10; edited 2 times in total
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 238
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug 2017, 04:50    Post subject: uefi or not  

Hi Limbomusic

I prefer to avoid uefi. I leave it there just for windooz. It is just a silly thing and it does nothing.
The way I do it now, I never have to go into bios again. So, no F9 (or whatever) on bootup, just fast and smooth to the X of puppy (with usb) (joy!) ... or crawling to windows (sadly Sad )

Btw, I love your website and your music; keep it going!
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Limbomusic


Joined: 15 Apr 2016
Posts: 188
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Fri 18 Aug 2017, 06:51    Post subject: hey
Subject description: man :-)
 

Thats totally cool foxpup Smile
This was just my opinion, I,m thinking that maybe for new user - who just wants to try puppy out, would maybe want to change/mess as little as possible.

On my main stationary pc - both legacy and uefi works - so if you put in a usb - it shows up in boot manager regardless. But on many laptops - you have to choose one or the other.

You actually like my music ?? Thanx Smile ! Youre on of very few Wink

I put you on the fans-list ! on
http://helledussen.com/limbomusic
(Let me know if not ok)

Cheers and have a soothing friday Smile Smile
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