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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
EasyOS Pyro 1.2.8, Buster 2.1.8 November 6, 2019
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9068
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri 04 Jan 2019, 02:13    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Gyle wrote:
Cool, get cool...musher0, there is no offense from anybody.
We are on a forum, right?
Please review BarryK's request by following this link:
http://bkhome.org/news/

Quote:
"Anyway, you guys can help me. I have a easyinitrd.pot file, and anyone proficient in a non-English lanugage could help by filling in the translations. There is a easyinitrd.pot file here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1014409#1014409"


My apologies, Gyle, it is not about you.
But Mr. Kauler will do this to me only once.


To set the record straight:

I posted the request to my blog and to this forum.

AFTER that, I received an email from GCMartin, requesting that I should ask you, musher0, so I did, sent you a pm.

AFTER receiving the reply from you that you were willing to do it, I went to this forum thread and found that Gyle had contributed a fr translation.

THEN I immediately informed you by pm.

AFTER that, I removed the easyinitrd.pot file from the earlier post, as it needs more strings.

So, cool down.

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 3450
Location: www.eussenheim.de/

PostPosted: Fri 04 Jan 2019, 05:55    Post subject: French translations  

musher0 wrote:
@L18L: Indeed, where are the humans when we need them?


Found on the web
https://wpml.org/forums/topic/fr_fr-versus-fr_ca/ wrote:
[Resolved] fr_FR versus fr_CA


There is no competition between fr (French) and fr_CA (Canadian French)
fr is for all French speakers (from France, Suisse, Belgium, Luxembourg, Canada...)
fr_CA, if created, is to be used by Canadians.

A fr_CA translation needs only translations which are different from fr translation.

musher0,
you see, it is not very much work, just

- copy Gyle's file fr.po_3 to fr_CA.po
- translate just what you translate into other words than Gyle did it
- and delete what would be the same translation.

Salut cheers and ciao

edited: appended .po to file names
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Gyle

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Location: Fr

PostPosted: Fri 04 Jan 2019, 09:52    Post subject:  

musher0,
your apologies are "strange" if not perverse when you accompany them at the same time with threats against another person.
They do not allow you to obtain any endorsement from me about these threats.
I believe you have a misconception of what is called a forum, a word that means "open space".
You speak French very well and in French the word "forer" has the same root as "forum" and means "make a hole", "to drill" in English.
In other words, "to allow an opening".

In the specific case of translations, it is absolutely necessary to cross-reference the information with different or convergent opinions.
So we make a hole in the *public* space to explore more broadly.
It is therefore quite "professional" to conduct a survey to have the widest possible range of responses in order to establish convergence.
It is simply a statistical tool.
For this survey, the special privileges or the personal and contractual spaces, you shared or you have imagined being shared, by the survey promoter would be a pollution of the common accuracy.
This is exactly the case with the problem of the "fake news"....

Well, it doesn't have to worry about that.
As we all know, it is not very serious to take one' s self seriously....
Have fun with this forum!
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1694

PostPosted: Fri 04 Jan 2019, 13:58    Post subject:  

Jeeezus, Barry (and others), I cannot believe you all have deal with, let alone even reply to, that sort of behavior.

For the record, for the past two years, I have repeatedly pointed out Musher's descent into nastiness, pettiness, and other un-forum like behaviors (like posting content in threads that have nothing to do with the thread itself). Even if a person tries to praise him for things he's done, he eventually turns on you and/or anything you present to him.

Musher won't admit it, heck, he won't even apologize; he'll just keep stomping around this forum like a few others used to do, a few others that ironically were finally banned.

And I truly don't understand it: 3-4 years ago (and all before that), Musher was fun to post with, joke with, etc, etc.

But his ability to be civil with others (of course, anything that occurs he'll blame on everyone & everything else EXCEPT himself) has deteriorated to the point that I have had him on "ignore". When I saw "blanked" out threads in this thread today, I just shook my head because I only have "one" person on ignore. Musher.

Over a year ago I watched Musher personally drive away one of our forum's greatest contributors (Tux) when Tux was developing and handling the Deb-stretch-pup development. It was horrid. Distasteful. Petty. And most of all, Childish. Musher kept screaming about Tux & others not including him, etc, etc. That Tux was "slighting" him. It got so bad it finally drove Tux away permanently and he has not been back since. And Tux was one of most gifted here...

Musher, if you're reading this, APOLOGIZE! for whatever you did and/or caused here, and then, please, go get some help, learn to be part of a community again. Make yourself be a part of and act accordingly to normal human interaction, while learning & remembering that everything that happens in life is not always about you . Above all, whatever happens is 99.99999% of the time never intentional. Yet, 99.9999% of the time, you perceive it as such. That is a problem, and it needs to change. Now.

Good heavens.... ;-(



P.S. There are a less-than-handful of posters here on Murga who ruin it for everyone, with their childish, bitter, negative, no-reason-for-anything posting. These 2-3 posters need to stop.
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Gyle

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 115
Location: Fr

PostPosted: Fri 04 Jan 2019, 15:44    Post subject:  

belham2, is it a reincarnation?

This spirit of denunciation you're showing is shocking...
Take the time to be quiet about yourself and musher0.
Are you human beings or disintegrated pieces of multiple identifications?
The word human being is not separated from the word integrity.
An indivisible thing. Integer in mathematics. All one. Alone. Seul in French which means "unique", "un" like "one"...
If you want the good to musher0, then explain, or be careful,
be honest, banish your hateful agendas and take care of others respecting this thread now, you're not involved in his emotional comments.
²
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9068
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat 05 Jan 2019, 04:34    Post subject:  

In the heat of the moment, we might post something that we later regret. Over the years, I have done it a few times.

Also over the years I have seen many flame wars, where the insults have spiraled out of control. And good people leave after being victimized.

Let's move on, back to what this thread is about.

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http://bkhome.org/news/

Last edited by BarryK on Sat 05 Jan 2019, 07:58; edited 1 time in total
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9068
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat 05 Jan 2019, 04:57    Post subject:  

On my blog I posted about being uncertain which translation method to use for the initrd. There are three methods:

SSS (Simple String Substitution)
t12s (developed by technosaurus)
gettext

I decided to use gettext, and it works, see blog post:

http://bkhome.org/news/201901/translation-of-early-boot-messages.html

For language translators, this method is MoManager-friendly. In the next release of Easy, there will be /usr/share/doc/nls/easyinitrd/easyinitrd.pot, which MoManager will offer to translate, and will store a compiled translation file at /usr/share/locale/*/easyinitrd.mo

The updated easyinitrd.pot file is posted above:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1014409#1014409

If you guys can send your translated easyinitrd.po file (which is easyinitrd.pot with the translations), then I will compile it to easyinitrd.mo and put into into the next release of Easy.

...from then on, developers will be able to run MoManager and tweak the translation.

I greatly appreciate the help. Otherwise, I would just do Google translations, and they can be pretty awful. L18L has been doing that, and perhaps we will do it to all the languages for which we don't have a human translator.

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 3450
Location: www.eussenheim.de/

PostPosted: Sat 05 Jan 2019, 07:15    Post subject: Translations
Subject description: or / and translators
 

BarryK wrote:
...
I greatly appreciate the help. Otherwise, I would just do Google translations, and they can be pretty awful. L18L has been doing that, and perhaps we will do it to all the languages for which we don't have a human translator.


Look at one of translation of G*'s chrome, please.

Chrome should be automatically in any "foreign" language installation.
a_translating_robot.png
 Description   
 Filesize   58.9 KB
 Viewed   473 Time(s)

a_translating_robot.png

g_languages.png
 Description   
 Filesize   16.45 KB
 Viewed   470 Time(s)

g_languages.png

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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9068
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat 05 Jan 2019, 07:53    Post subject:  

Here's another one!

This is translation for the Syslinux and reFind boot-manager menus.

It uses the SSS (Simple String Substitution) method, that MoManager understands.

The file /usr/share/sss/boot_strings/boot_strings is attached. MoManager will read this and a developer can insert translations.

But no need for MoManager, just open it in a text editor and insert the translations.
boot_strings.gz
Description  false .gz appended
gz

 Download 
Filename  boot_strings.gz 
Filesize  982 Bytes 
Downloaded  74 Time(s) 

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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9068
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat 05 Jan 2019, 08:01    Post subject: Re: Translations
Subject description: or / and translators
 

L18L wrote:
BarryK wrote:
...
I greatly appreciate the help. Otherwise, I would just do Google translations, and they can be pretty awful. L18L has been doing that, and perhaps we will do it to all the languages for which we don't have a human translator.


Look at one of translation of G*'s chrome, please.

Chrome should be automatically in any "foreign" language installation.


I have been using Gxlat, in the Document menu.

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 3450
Location: www.eussenheim.de/

PostPosted: Sat 05 Jan 2019, 15:08    Post subject: Translations
Subject description: boot_strings
 

This is German translation for the Syslinux and reFind boot-manager menus
boot_strings.de.gz
Description  no fake
gz

 Download 
Filename  boot_strings.de.gz 
Filesize  607 Bytes 
Downloaded  67 Time(s) 
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4871
Location: Blue Springs, MO

PostPosted: Sat 05 Jan 2019, 16:24    Post subject:  

I never thought we would still be booting slow enough to need translations by now, but that was what I initially developed what became t12s for (until I got boot to X+jwm to <0.5sec).
A couple of threads related to t12s here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=72321
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=73440
One thing I remember learning from that, which I never posted about was that it becomes important to replace echo with printf to allow for differing language rules. It allows a %s to be included in the translated string so that variables can be inserted at the appropriate syntactical location.

Here is an oversimplified example:
Code:

setLANG_de(){
#uncomment these after translating to german
#_M_1="translate %s strings\n"
#_M_2="some"
#_M_3="some more"
}
printf "${_M_1:-translate %s strings\n}" "3"
printf "${_M_1:-translate %s strings\n}" "${_M_2:-some}"
printf "${_M_1:-translate %s strings\n}" "${_M_3:-some more}"

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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9068
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat 05 Jan 2019, 21:17    Post subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
I never thought we would still be booting slow enough to need translations by now, but that was what I initially developed what became t12s for (until I got boot to X+jwm to <0.5sec).
A couple of threads related to t12s here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=72321
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=73440


With Easy, there are various things that may happen in the initrd that will take some time.

For example, ask for a password to decrypt folders in the working-partition.

Another example: filesystem check of the working partition.

Thanks for those links. Yes, I was wavering, thinking of using t12s.
But, have a nice tiny statically-compiled 'gettext' in the initrd (46KB), and I am most familiar with using gettext.

I was concerned that it might bloat the initrd too much, putting in /usr/lib/locale/<lang>, as LC_COLLATE and LC_CTYPE are big (typically 1.2MB and 300KB), however, discovered that can just leave them out and set "export LC_COLLATE=C" and "export LC_CTYPE=C" in the 'init' script in the initrd.

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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9068
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat 05 Jan 2019, 21:22    Post subject:  

Did a bit of a write-up explaining how the translation is different for the initrd and the boot-manager menus:

http://bkhome.org/news/201901/syslinux-and-refind-boot-manager-translation.html

@L18L,
Thanks for those translations. I will put them into woofE, so they will be in the next build of Easy.

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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9068
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat 05 Jan 2019, 21:59    Post subject:  

After reading one of those links posted by technosaurus, I posted a pm to rodin.s about what is the best console font for ru.

But then thought, this question should be opened up for everyone to respond. So here it is:

-------------------------
rodin.s,
I would like your advice about what is the best console font to have in the initrd of EasyOS for ru translation.

I saw your post here:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=604950#604950

...link to pet with cyr-sun16.psfu.gz ter-u16n.psf.gz fonts.

In the init script in initrd, I have this:

Code:
#190103 need to know what language now using...
[ ! "$INIT_LANG" ] && INIT_LANG=C #precaution.
wkgLANG="${INIT_LANG}"
#this should match console font loaded in quicksetup...
case "${wkgLANG}" in
 C|en*)
  wkgLANG="C"
 ;;
 ar*|he*|iw*) #arabic, hebrew
  loadfont < /lib/consolefonts/LatArCyrHeb-16.psfu
 ;;
 *) #all european languages...
  #el|ru|uk|be|sr|tg|os|ba|ce|cv)
  loadfont < /lib/consolefonts/LatGrkCyr-8x16.psfu
 ;;
esac
export LANG=C
export wkgLANG


The gettext method is used, see my post:

http://bkhome.org/news/201901/syslinux-and-refind-boot-manager-translation.html

Forum discussion is happening here:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1014752#1014752

Your input to this would be greatly appreciated!
------------------------------

rodin.s hasn't visited the forum for sometime, last post was in 2017 I think. I hope that he wanders by again and reads his pm!

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