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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
EasyOS version 2.3.2, June 22, 2020
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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lp-dolittle

Joined: 25 Apr 2016
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Sun 24 Feb 2019, 17:08    Post subject: Xorg server issue
Subject description: keyboard-layout
 

@ Barry
@ rufwoof

Unable to really specify the basically underlying problem, I became aware of a somewhat strange 'interference' between the main desktop and the containerised desktop in EasyOS that seems to relate to the left and right ALT-key (possibly also affecting sakura) when pressed in combination with the 1-, 2-, or 3-key.

When I enter the containerised desktop, leaving untouched the quick setup, and open sakura, the keyboard layout logically is set to 'us', and I'm required to adjust my choice (Swiss German) via the 'setxkbmap ch' command. However, now simultaneously pressing the right-alt key and the 2-key - what should result in '@' - makes the containerised desktop flip back to the main desktop. Pressing the 'right alt-2' combination outside sakura has the same effect

A similar situation results if you start EasyOS from the iso-CD, leave the quick setup untouched and change to the containerised desktop. Pressing now the right alt as well as the 2-key simultaneously, makes the containerised desktop flip back to the main desktop. Now, choosing screen 1 in the icon tray at the desktop bottom leads back to the containerised desktop, but sakura no longer works correctly. Characters no longer can be entered, and sakura only can be closed or killed (both options seem to have the same effect) via the icon at the bottom of the screen. Changing to the cli (ctrl-alt-F2) works, and entering 'root' (password woofwoof) leads to an Xorg Video Wizard window and an error message.

Are these reactions in fact intended?

kind regards
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1600
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Sun 24 Feb 2019, 17:56    Post subject:  

@Ipdolittle

It seems to me your back in a us keymap, to check this could you>

In the containerized desktop press <shift> and <2> and see what you get, should be a <@> if a us keyboard is set.
In most us keyboard maps, the left and right alt keys are set to do the same function code, so an <alt> 2, whether left or right <alt> would do the same thing.
Maybe you also need to set the keyboard kemap in the container?
If so this, when you think about it would be a plus as you can work in a number of languages, each in their own container.
?On the other hand they may be hard coded in jwm, rox, or elsewhere.

@barryk

I wonder if we can use multiple keyboards with containers? Maybe having a setting to match a keyboard to a container.

That would be great for translation work as well where the auto-translation program does the rough 'grunt work' and they use their own knowledge to complete the changes.

Now, if we could also set for two monitors and keyboards, one of each tied to each container and thus language, I could see a revolution in the way translation is being done today, as it's basically an arcache process still, (almost) just using a computer instead of pen-and-paper to write with/on!

Something like, setting >
Monitor1, keyboard1, languageset1 = english
monitor2, keyboard2, languageset2 = swiss german (in this case)
Although doing this would change the other when changing the first, leading to some hillarious expressions, like dolphin in english is sea pig in kanji.
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725

PostPosted: Sun 24 Feb 2019, 22:18    Post subject:  

Quote:
Unable to really specify the basically underlying problem, I became aware of a somewhat strange 'interference' between the main desktop and the containerised desktop in EasyOS that seems to relate to the left and right ALT-key (possibly also affecting sakura) when pressed in combination with the 1-, 2-, or 3-key.

Alt 1, 2 or 3 ...etc is jwm's command keycode to switch to that desktop (desktop 1 = alt 1, desktop 2 = alt 2 ..etc). Same as on all jwm based puppy's

I use the keyboard for control/navigation quite a lot (Puppy's/EasyOS are really more for predominately mouse users, ROX was based on RISC which is mostly dragging and dropping things around) and there are a number of such conflicts. For example in tmux I have F11 set to add a new tmux window, but if I'm running tmux in a sakura terminal window then sakura's F11 maximise window annoyingly takes precedence.

There's another quirky key combination issue if you use ctrl-shift-delete to clear your browser cache etc. (which I tend to do often i.e. after logging out of one site so that userid/passwords aren't left around for other sites to potentially grab via cross scripting) as after having used that the ctrl-shift combination in effect locks/unlocks toggles the container window (the container looks like a desktop, but really its just a full screened window), so when you come to alt-F6 out of the container ... nothing happens - not at least until you press the ctrl-shift combination to toggle the lock/unlock that restores the alt-F6 operation (EasyOS exit container).

EDIT : I resolved my tmux/sakura F11 key conflict by adjusting ~/.config/sakura/sakura.conf file to set fullscreen_key=F10 (instead of F11).

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Last edited by rufwoof on Mon 04 Mar 2019, 18:04; edited 1 time in total
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lp-dolittle

Joined: 25 Apr 2016
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Mon 25 Feb 2019, 12:26    Post subject: keyboard-layout confusion
Subject description: containers
 

@ scsijon
@ rufwoof

Thank you for your feedback!

Rufwoof's explanations especially proved to be helpful, and I now can better understand the latent keyboard-layout issues.

After all, I'm still astonished that the left and the right ALT-key may evoke different reactions even if the pre-set us keyboard-layout is not changed in any way, neither in the main desktop nor in its containerised counterpart.

The sometimes appearing and sometimes missing icons in the applet-tray seem to be an additional source of confusion.

kind regards
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725

PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2019, 21:00    Post subject:  

@Barry.

Wondering about instead of the agro of acking agar Smile whether instead you might chroot into /sys/init and where in that loop something like ...

X :3 vt1 &
DISPLAY=:3 galculator &
chvt 1

is run, but substituting galculator for any other window/gtk dialog/whatever i.e. the 'console' in effect switches over to displaying X with (in this case) galculator running. Store any values in /tmp/stored-values, then when you kill X :3 and exit chroot back into initrd cli those values are available within /easy_new/tmp/stored-values - which might be used to set initrd things up further before reinvoking the main system (X) again (ctrl-alt-f4).

???

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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9400
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri 01 Mar 2019, 10:43    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:
@Barry.

Wondering about instead of the agro of acking agar Smile whether instead you might chroot into /sys/init and where in that loop something like ...

X :3 vt1 &
DISPLAY=:3 galculator &
chvt 1

is run, but substituting galculator for any other window/gtk dialog/whatever i.e. the 'console' in effect switches over to displaying X with (in this case) galculator running. Store any values in /tmp/stored-values, then when you kill X :3 and exit chroot back into initrd cli those values are available within /easy_new/tmp/stored-values - which might be used to set initrd things up further before reinvoking the main system (X) again (ctrl-alt-f4).

???


Yes, the "only" problem with using Agar is learning how to use it!

Yes, I did wonder about starting X temporarily. But, I want effectively instant startup, and without having actually tried it, I thought it might be too slow to startup.

Oh yeah, also, X would have to start without all the kernel modules loaded, so there wouldn't be the i915.ko kernel Intel kms module for example.

There are other possibilities of course, such as goingnuts' tinyX, that he has compiled statically, and I think also there is a statically-compiled gtkdialog for gtk1.

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4878
Location: Blue Springs, MO

PostPosted: Fri 01 Mar 2019, 16:49    Post subject:  

BarryK wrote:

Yes, I did wonder about starting X temporarily. But, I want effectively instant startup, and without having actually tried it, I thought it might be too slow to startup.

Oh yeah, also, X would have to start without all the kernel modules loaded, so there wouldn't be the i915.ko kernel Intel kms module for example.

There are other possibilities of course, such as goingnuts' tinyX, that he has compiled statically, and I think also there is a statically-compiled gtkdialog for gtk1.
xvesa+jwm can start in less than half a second. I got it down to less than 0.2s but that was with a built-in initramfs and lz4hc compressed kernel, no modules and only enough built into the kernel for qemu network capabilities.
Gtkdialog1 is slightly different from current versions but should be easy to port.
On the other hand slitaz uses busybox httpd and cgi scripts for similar functionality. Scotman started a similar thread on this forum in Programming. That would allow using netsurf (forked version for framebuffer), dillo (in goingnuts' static gtk1 multicall binary) , midori or a standard browser depending on the context.
Another alternative is to port gtkdialog back to one of the earlier versions of gtk2 that worked on the framebuffer... probably 2.6.x since it has the least dependencies.

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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725

PostPosted: Sat 02 Mar 2019, 06:17    Post subject:  

In the OpenBSD install process (cli based), the very first question is to enter a numerical number for your keyboard layout (shows a list). Numerics I believe are consistent across all keyboard types ??? My EasyOS install indicates /lib/keymaps to be 45KB in total size for all of the available keymaps (i.e. to unzip the appropriate choice and feed into loadkeys from within initrd). Thereafter password prompt/entry is using the correct keyboard layout.

Pretty much how EasyOS currently also does it. Other than a bit of bling what is the benefit of changing from that?

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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9400
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 06:50    Post subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
BarryK wrote:

Yes, I did wonder about starting X temporarily. But, I want effectively instant startup, and without having actually tried it, I thought it might be too slow to startup.

Oh yeah, also, X would have to start without all the kernel modules loaded, so there wouldn't be the i915.ko kernel Intel kms module for example.

There are other possibilities of course, such as goingnuts' tinyX, that he has compiled statically, and I think also there is a statically-compiled gtkdialog for gtk1.
xvesa+jwm can start in less than half a second. I got it down to less than 0.2s but that was with a built-in initramfs and lz4hc compressed kernel, no modules and only enough built into the kernel for qemu network capabilities.
Gtkdialog1 is slightly different from current versions but should be easy to port.
On the other hand slitaz uses busybox httpd and cgi scripts for similar functionality. Scotman started a similar thread on this forum in Programming. That would allow using netsurf (forked version for framebuffer), dillo (in goingnuts' static gtk1 multicall binary) , midori or a standard browser depending on the context.
Another alternative is to port gtkdialog back to one of the earlier versions of gtk2 that worked on the framebuffer... probably 2.6.x since it has the least dependencies.


Yes, I did recently look back at old versions of gtk2, 2.6.x was the last version supporting "linux-fb", after that, right until now, gtk2 supports "directfb".

I compiled directfb, with lots of patches from debian, and tried to configure it as small as possible, but it is still big and complicated.

Oh, yes, I also attempted to compile gtk 2.6.x with linux-fb, configured ok (warned that linux-fb not maintained and likely to fail to compile and fail to work), but compile failed, didn't bother to try and fix.

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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9400
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 06:59    Post subject:  

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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9400
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 07:01    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:
In the OpenBSD install process (cli based), the very first question is to enter a numerical number for your keyboard layout (shows a list). Numerics I believe are consistent across all keyboard types ??? My EasyOS install indicates /lib/keymaps to be 45KB in total size for all of the available keymaps (i.e. to unzip the appropriate choice and feed into loadkeys from within initrd). Thereafter password prompt/entry is using the correct keyboard layout.

Pretty much how EasyOS currently also does it. Other than a bit of bling what is the benefit of changing from that?


Yeah, seems good enough. However, he linux console only supports latin-type characters, not Chinese, Hindi, etc.

One thing that does puzzle me, a bit of a lack in my understanding. If load the ru (Russion) console keyboard layout, and a Cyrillic font that supports ru characters, it makes no difference, you type "abcdef" keys and that is what displays.

In an Xterm however, type "abcdef" and you get the Russian characters.

I would like a GUI in the initrd that will not just show the ru text, but also the password entry box accept ru characters. Yeah and Chinese, etc., also.

Or, is that wanting too much? Do users in Russian have PCs that are able to enter English characters? Or, if they type those keys that we have labeled as "abcdef", also have English lettering on their keyboards?

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3475
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sun 03 Mar 2019, 09:50    Post subject:  

Quote:
Yeah, seems good enough. However, he linux console only supports latin-type characters, not Chinese, Hindi, etc.
For these you will need an input method. I guess that's why we have fbterm (among others). Without input method this isn't possible.

Quote:
One thing that does puzzle me, a bit of a lack in my understanding. If load the ru (Russion) console keyboard layout, and a Cyrillic font that supports ru characters, it makes no difference, you type "abcdef" keys and that is what displays.

The secret is that there is a "switch key" that you need to press to switch between Latin and Russion layout (for example).

In a full environment (not initrd) you can do this in Linux console:
Code:
loadkeys ru
setfont LatGrkCyr-8x16

Then press Ctrl-Shift to switch between Latin and Russian. E.g. Type "abcde", then press Ctrl-Shift, then let go, then type "abcde" and you will see Russion characters. Press Ctrl-Shift again and you're back to Latin. The "switch" key is different from layout to layout, if you're native uses of that layout you're probably supposed to know.

In principle this should work inside initrd too but in my own testing I can do the switching (Ctrl-Shift does work) but not the characters (they show up as question mark, but once I press Enter they do show up). I suppose either the busybox utilities I use for that purpose (loadkmap and setfont) don't do the job well, or the font/keymap I have in my initrd is too old.
EDIT: the culprit seems to be busybox ash.

Quote:
I would like a GUI in the initrd that will not just show the ru text, but also the password entry box accept ru characters. Yeah and Chinese, etc., also.
Agar looks good, but I'm not sure of its input-method capability. gtk2 however does support various input methods ... not sure about gtk1, however.
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watchdog

Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 2022
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Mon 04 Mar 2019, 04:03    Post subject:  

My first experience with EasyOs. I have successfully installed and made snapshot of 0.9.18. Using palemoon28 and sylpheed. Sylpheed-3.4.3-x86_64.pet:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AEKVxqJqCnZ0bwoyLI3ucVORHIqZPkft/view?usp=sharing

(from slackware 14.1). Installed Pavrecord for webcam and the racy container. Cups not working in the racy container: permissions problems writing to /var/spool/cups. I can use a self made precise container as explained at:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1018462#1018462

I have also solved the printer installation installing foomatic from fatdog64 800 for a brother laser printer.

Foomatic32:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YvYJu71kPlMRSANdTDpXp4jAacmBrVcz/view?usp=sharing

Foomatic64:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J-3UPbRubcnrPhLd809NRTGy32oXSnr_/view?usp=sharing

(install both). Thanks for this beautiful distro.
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725

PostPosted: Mon 04 Mar 2019, 04:22    Post subject:  

Booting EasyOS with qfix=nox and starting up tmux I can view pdf's fine (along with tmux I've also installed vlc and fbpdf2), but vlc wont display a video. vlc works fine if I exit tmux back to cli and run it from there, or even if I detach from tmux, run vlc and then tmux attach again afterwards.

I've attached a framebuffer grab after ctrl-c'ing out of vlc attempting to play a video within tmux. Anyone know of any trick or workaround to get vlc running ok within a tmux window?
s.png
 Description   
 Filesize   11.44 KB
 Viewed   547 Time(s)

s.png


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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 9400
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon 04 Mar 2019, 09:09    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
Agar looks good, but I'm not sure of its input-method capability. gtk2 however does support various input methods ... not sure about gtk1, however.


I am now using gtk2! Running on the full Xorg:

http://bkhome.org/news/201903/xorg-gui-running-in-initrd.html

It remembers the locale/keyboard choices, and future bootups, pre-configures the easy.sfs layer in the initrd, so only the password-entry box has to be displayed.

Now, to test this on my older PCs...

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