Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Mon 23 Jul 2018, 05:19
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Tiniest Puppy that supports Chromium?
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 1 [15 Posts]  
Author Message
johnywhy


Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 721

PostPosted: Thu 30 Mar 2017, 02:24    Post subject:  Tiniest Puppy that supports Chromium?
Subject description: Don't need nuthin else
 

Hi

what is the teeniest, tiniest puppy on which i can install Chromium?
(or, which puppy that runs Chromium can be trimmed down the most).

i don't need anything else-- no applications, no desktop, no office, no text editor, no utilities, nothing.

i'm going to run it in VMWare, so it's not going to be my main OS. It will exist only to run Chromium (and minimal network, touchpad, and keyboard drivers for a 2015 HP x64 laptop).

minimal RAM usage is most important factor.
i can store chrome datafiles outside of puppy.

looking at:
picopup
Meanpup
PupnGo - https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_pUPnGO
Wary Tiny - http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=68284
Puppy Minimal - https://sourceforge.net/projects/puppy-linux-minimal-builds/
Racy 5.5
Racy 5.3BabyBarebones - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0uge_imqIdZbkNxb2g3VkxpMzA/view
TahrNOP 6.x http://download.tuxfamily.org/nop/
ThinSlacko https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0ByUDhE3nQF8uenRydHFucUZDX00

but some are rather old.

thx!

_________________
Now: X-Tahr
Tops: TarhNOP Vlina-R2 LxPrecise Racy xSlacko
Used: Puppeee Precise Lucid Wary Tahrpup Quirky Slacko MacPup Saluki Puppy Studio LxPupTarh Lina-Lite Lina
Watching: Quirky-April Zagreb RapidPup
i ♥ Puppy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2477
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 30 Mar 2017, 19:51    Post subject:  

Hi johnywhy,

Perhaps the reason you've had 60 people read your post so far without any responses is their recognition of the unexpressed difficulty your question poses.

We have to assume that by Chromium, you mean a current version of Chromium -- one which can access websites demanding current web-browsers. For such version of Chromium to run under any Puppy, that Puppy has to provide current graphic libraries (glibs).

One of the actually "smallest" Puppies which used to be able to meet that requirement was battleshooter's mod of Carolina, published as Carolina Vanguard. The Carolinas, like the Salukis before them, were highly modular. Although their ISOs were large, most of an ISOs size was a consequence of the included adrv which contained almost all "user" applications: only a text editor and one other small "user" application was included in the ISO's "standard" puppy_xxx.sfs. However, the Carolinas and Salukis could boot to desktop with advr having been removed; and from desktop many then current applications the user wanted could be installed. Without adrv, Carolina Vanguard only occupied 103 Mbs of hard-drive, IIRC. Battleshooter's mod had been to include the glibs then required by Chromium.

But that was several years ago and during the interval Chromium has continued to demand newer and larger glibs, as have all webbrowsers.

One way of solving the problem was the technique used by ac2011 which enable the current Palemoon Webbrowser to be used under Wary, see http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=907538#907538 and by a variation of ac2011's recipe by watchdog of an "almost current" Palemoon to run under Puppy 4.31. See posts following the above. If I recall correctly, ac2011's recipe added about 15 Mbs to Fluppy, a predecessor by jemimah of her Saluki.

But, I'm unaware of anyone doing anything similar with regard to the glibs needed by recent Chromiums.

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1530

PostPosted: Tue 04 Apr 2017, 12:56    Post subject:  

Whatever puppy you decide, it will certainly take less room than ChromeOS. Apparently ChromeOS takes over 4GB.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5093
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Tue 04 Apr 2017, 13:56    Post subject:  

Are you looking for the "physically smallest puppy" or the puppy that has "least features"?

The physically smallest puppy may not be the one that uses least RAM - sometimes more recent (bigger) libs are more efficient when running in RAM than older (smaller) more fragmented libs.

Assuming your starting point is to find the smallest puppy I would suggest an oddball method - start with any puppy that happily runs the browser you are happy with and then start removing every file that you can. Maybe instead of removing files just "wrap" them up in a temporary directory so that you can restore them if needed.

You will find that there are many files you never use - especially if you do not need the libs associated with Abiword, Opera, Seamonkey etc etc etc. There will be heaps of stuff in /usr/bin that you don't need.

There will also be heaps of firmware you can ditch.

It will be a longwinded process, but in my opinion will be a better method than starting with a stripped barebones puppy then trying to work out what to put back in so that Chrome (ium) will start working again.

Start new and slim down.

I like your idea - it would become an update of the old browserpup and I am sure lots of puppians would be keen to use it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
zeno

Joined: 05 Apr 2017
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 08 Apr 2017, 14:38    Post subject:  

Maybe a kiosk?


Porteus Kiosk is a lightweight Linux operating system which has been restricted to allow only use of the web browser. Furthermore, the browser has been locked down to prevent users from tampering with settings or downloading and installing software. When the kiosk boots it automatically opens Firefox or Google Chrome browser to your chosen home page. The history is not kept, no passwords are saved, and many menu items have been disabled for total security. When the browser is restarted, all caches are cleared and it reopens automatically with a clean session to ensure no trace of history is left.
http://porteus-kiosk.org/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 3925
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sat 08 Apr 2017, 15:19    Post subject:  

Hi, Sailor.

Sailor Enceladus wrote:
Whatever puppy you decide, it will certainly take less room than ChromeOS. Apparently ChromeOS takes over 4GB.


I don't know about ChromeOS. I have, however used ChromiumOS, installing and running it from a flash drive. Yes, it does use 4 GB or so.....but that's not the best bit. It creates no fewer than 17 partitions for its own use.....most of which are no bigger than 512k, and are formatted in a manner that gParted doesn't even recognise..... Laughing


Mike. Wink

_________________
MY PUPPY PACKAGES | 'Thanks' are always appreciated!
--------------------------------------

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
johnywhy


Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 721

PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar 2018, 20:23    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
Are you looking for the "physically smallest puppy" or the puppy that has "least features"?


Smallest install footprint, least RAM. I don't need office apps, graphic design, music production, etc. Not trying to replace windows or Mac.

I do want puppy's standard disk utilities, data recovery, partition mgmt, etc. And browsing.

Quote:
- sometimes more recent (bigger) libs are more efficient when running in RAM than older (smaller) more fragmented libs.


X-tahr? It's my puppy of choice. I may base this around the excellent Mozilla Light browser, which is already built into x-tahr, instead of trying to shoehorn chrome into it.

Quote:
start with any puppy that happily runs the browser you are happy with and then start removing every file that you can.


I'm nervous about that method. Seems I would have to perform a complete system test after every deletion, so it'll take forever. And still won't be 100% sure I haven't broken something. Is there a faster, safer approach? Would be great to have a tool which identifies unused packages or files.

Quote:
You will find that there are many files you never use - especially if you do not need the libs associated with Abiword, Opera, Seamonkey etc etc etc. There will be heaps of stuff in /usr/bin that you don't need.


I would start with "Remove built in packages" tool, no?

Quote:
There will also be heaps of firmware you can ditch.


Firmware? BIOS?

Quote:
shrinking will be a better method than starting with a stripped barebones puppy then trying to work out what to put back in so that Chrome (ium) will start working again.


Really? But isn't the browser install pretty automatic? At least with a tiny puppy, it's basic functionality has already been validated.

Quote:
I like your idea -


Cool!

_________________
Now: X-Tahr
Tops: TarhNOP Vlina-R2 LxPrecise Racy xSlacko
Used: Puppeee Precise Lucid Wary Tahrpup Quirky Slacko MacPup Saluki Puppy Studio LxPupTarh Lina-Lite Lina
Watching: Quirky-April Zagreb RapidPup
i ♥ Puppy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mistfire

Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 911
Location: PH

PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar 2018, 21:13    Post subject:  

@johnywhy try X-Slacko Slim. Its main sfs is around 130+Mb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2477
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar 2018, 21:42    Post subject:  

I'm assuming you want to be able to run the latest Chromium. If not, you can start with Carolina-Vanguard. It's modular build system included almost all "user" applications in adrv_vlina_1.3.sfs. Only two small apps (a text-editor and one other --a terminal?) were in puppy_vlina_1.3.sfs. You can simply delete adrv_vlina_1.3.sfs and Carolina-Vanguard will boot to desktop with the ability to install anything compatible with its core. You can probably use Remove builtins to whittle it down further. But I think it's glibc version can't handle Chromium beyond version 35, maybe 40.

Here's the thing about using Remove builtins: Applications fall into two categories: (1) foundations which are 'nuts & bolts', 'struts and planks' forming the structure which constitutes the operating system; and (2) the 'user' applications which generally appear on the menu. With rare exceptions even 'user' applications are intentionally chosen because they are small. Occasionally, a Puppy Dev will include a large 'user' application such as LibreOffice and Gimp. But as a general rule, they'll have opted for Abiword & Gnumeric, and mtpaint. Remove Builtins doesn't distinguish between the two categories. BUT YOU CAN. If it's not on the menu and you don't know what its purpose is, don't remove it.. Limiting yourself to just removing menu items is unlikely to break any of the 'core' applications --see paragraph above-- and the small size of the remaining applications you theoretically might have removed is unlikely to make a difference in your project.

After removing items which appeared on the menu, check what remains in /usr/share/applications. The menu is created by reading the contents of the files in that folder. And some of those files may include an argument such as "No Display=true".

mikesLr

p.s. mistfire posted while I was writing. I agree X-Slacko Slim is an excellent choice with which to begin this project.

p.p.s. Don't remove Menu>Setup>Remaster LiveCD. Remember, Remove Builtins doesn't actually remove anything. It only 'breaks the links' to files so that they will not be included in a remaster. When using it, you can choose to only include the drivers and firmware required by your computer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5093
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2018, 00:27    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
p.p.s. Don't remove Menu>Setup>Remaster LiveCD. Remember, Remove Builtins doesn't actually remove anything. It only 'breaks the links' to files so that they will not be included in a remaster. When using it, you can choose to only include the drivers and firmware required by your computer.
Hi Mike, when you say "you can choose to only include the drivers and firmware required by your computer" are you referring to the "Menu>Setup>Remaster" routine or to the "remove builtins" process?

I am keen to know how to identify what firmware is present in my Puppy - but unused. I understand there are many megabytes of firmware and if I am not using them it would be nice to discard them from my main puppy.sfs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
johnywhy


Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 721

PostPosted: Thu 08 Mar 2018, 17:32    Post subject:  

Thx for replies. I'll compare x-slacko to x-tahr. They use a different core, right?

Why would you pick x-slacko over x-tahr?

I understand about foundational packages. I understand that "Remove built in packages" tool doesn't delete files until remaster.

But Mike, your suggestion to remove only menu apps seems overly cautious, while your previous suggestion to delete raw files directly seems overly risky.

Is there an aggressive but non-risky middle approach?

Thx!

_________________
Now: X-Tahr
Tops: TarhNOP Vlina-R2 LxPrecise Racy xSlacko
Used: Puppeee Precise Lucid Wary Tahrpup Quirky Slacko MacPup Saluki Puppy Studio LxPupTarh Lina-Lite Lina
Watching: Quirky-April Zagreb RapidPup
i ♥ Puppy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 643
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2018, 11:54    Post subject:  

build yourself a Puppy Tahr or Xenial with Woof-CE after modifying the proper files and lists before ./2createpackages and ./1download, you will be able to create a pretty small Puppy Linux that will run Chromium perhaps?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2477
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2018, 17:10    Post subject:  

deleted -- duplicate of the following post

mikesLr

Last edited by mikeslr on Sat 10 Mar 2018, 17:25; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2477
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2018, 17:10    Post subject:  

Hi johnnywhy,

I don't recall suggesting that you remove "raw" files. To clarify things, it's during the remaster process that you can limit the drivers and firmware to be included in your "custom.iso" to only those used by computer on which the remaster is being built. Your running system "knows" which of those are used.

And regarding only using remove builtins to only remove applications appearing on the Start-Menu, I qualified that, "if it's not on the menu and you don't know what its purpose is, don't remove it.." Emphasis supplied. If you know, or undertake the process of finding out what functions a builtin application performs, and decide that you don't need that function, that's also another story.

rockedge's suggestion is obviously the best way to create a Puppy to your specifications. But, I'm guessing that the extent of knowledge you would have to possess to properly modify the proper files and lists before ./2createpackages and ./1download exceeds the extent of knowledge you'd have to acquire to remove all "unwanted" builtins.

mikesLr

p.s. Regarding the applications you choose to retain, you can also check whether they include "language files" and remove unnecessary languages from the "work-directory" before completing the Remaster.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
johnywhy


Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 721

PostPosted: Mon 12 Mar 2018, 16:20    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:

I don't recall suggesting that you remove "raw" files

My bad, that came from greengeek:

greengeek wrote:
start removing every file that you can.


mikeslr wrote:

during the remaster process that you can limit the drivers and firmware to be included in your "custom.iso" to only those used by computer

Yep, I get that.


mikeslr wrote:
If you know, or undertake the process of finding out what functions a builtin application performs, and decide that you don't need that function, that's also another story.

As I would do, or leave it untouched otherwise.


mikeslr wrote:
the best way to create a Puppy to your specifications... modify the proper files and lists before ./2createpackages and ./1download

I've read xfce is notoriously pita to make work on puppy, and the iffy puppy xfce's I've tried seem to confirm that. So I prefer to start with a puppy on which xfce is already well implemented. X-tahr is my fave-- it's already very close to the puppy i want. Seems stable and solid, so far. Xenial not so much.


mikeslr wrote:
extent of knowledge you would have to possess

I admit, if you hadn't guessed, I'm not an expert. Bad dog.

mikeslr wrote:
remove unnecessary languages from the "work-directory".

Thx for that! That's the sort of simple slimdown tip i seek. Is there a list someplace, or thread with tips on other stuff that's safe to remove?

_________________
Now: X-Tahr
Tops: TarhNOP Vlina-R2 LxPrecise Racy xSlacko
Used: Puppeee Precise Lucid Wary Tahrpup Quirky Slacko MacPup Saluki Puppy Studio LxPupTarh Lina-Lite Lina
Watching: Quirky-April Zagreb RapidPup
i ♥ Puppy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 1 [15 Posts]  
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1462s ][ Queries: 11 (0.0360s) ][ GZIP on ]