Using AppImages in Puppy...

Using applications, configuring, problems
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Semme
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#16 Post by Semme »

"Updated" does indeed flip those listings. Do we care? :wink: No.
>>> Living with the immediacy of death helps you sort out your priorities. It helps you live a life less trivial <<<

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bigpup
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#17 Post by bigpup »

Anyone got an idea on how to get around this "will not run, if you are running as root" thing?
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
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chapchap70
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#18 Post by chapchap70 »

Try this in a terminal

Code: Select all

su - spot
then start the program from there.

riedzig
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#19 Post by riedzig »

Many more appimages that start in Xenialpup64 7.0.7 (not tested all their functions):

Atom
AzPainter
Calibre
Digikam (only 5.3.0)
EncryptPad
FBReader
FlowBlade
Hugin (only 2.0)
Ipe
IrScrutinizer
Kdenlive
Marble
MrWriter
Okular (starts with a blank page when used as "open with" or "run action")
Skanlite
XnView
Xara Xtreme
SublimeText
Peruse
Avidemux
Openshot
Natron
MediaInfo
Leafpad
Krita
KeePassXC
Kate
Inkscape
FontForge
Darktable
BlueGriffon
BlueFish
Ktube
SerPlayer
MuseScore (only randomly selected nightlies)
PhotoFlow
QCTools
Peek

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Mike Walsh
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#20 Post by Mike Walsh »

Mmm. That's good to know. Especially that Pup's slightly unusual implementation of many Linux 'standards' doesn't prevent stuff like this from working correctly.

Nice one.

I did try FlowBlade in Tahr64 605, but it claimed the glibc was too old..! (It's 2.19; FB only wants 2.15, fer Chrissakes.....)


Mike. :wink:

Marley
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#21 Post by Marley »

Hi,
I just tried out an appimage for Synfig 1.2 using precise 5.7.1 - it didn't work.

When I tried from the console (urxvt) there were so many error messages I couldn't read the first ones because they disappeared as the error messages scrolled upwards!

Eventually with the help of screeny I managed to see that the first error message was that lbconfig could not be found

Could that first problem lead to all the rest? Why can't I run lbconfig but only get told 'command not found'?

Otherwise I tried subsurface appimage that I believe was offered on that main page for appimage (not the one that has all the packages available) - and that worked fine though I have no need for the program as I don't dive :roll:

If something is packaged as an appimage only is it then going to be impossible to get it to work on puppy if it won't work with the appimage because it being an image sort of makes it not able to be changed at all, right? I suppose then unless you can get ahold of the binaries you can't really use the program if that's the only way it's packaged? Is that right?

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Mike Walsh
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#22 Post by Mike Walsh »

Evening, all. An 'update' for you...

For anybody who might be looking to break away from Skype's stranglehold, there's a new one you might be interested in. I know there's a few others, like Ekiga, Linphone, et al.....but, like Skype, this one not only does VOIP stuff but also the usual messaging chat as well.

It's called Wire. It's in the AppImage listings mentioned at the start of this thread, but, as with everything on that site, it's 64-bit only. However, there is a 32-bit AppImage available. If you go to Wire's own 'get the app' page:-

https://wire.com/en/download/

.....and scroll down, the Linux d/loads are at the bottom right of the page. If you click on the dropdown, underneath where it says 'Get Source Code' below the penguin, you'll see a listing for 'AppImage 32-bit'. Click on this, and it'll open your 'Downloads' dialogue box, ready to save it.

It's in the same style as the 'Telegram' instant messaging app which I've also been playing about with in recent months.....very sparse, and 'modern'-looking. It does, however, work nicely, firing up without hesitation in every Pup I've tried it in, 32- and 64-bit alike. And because it's cloud-based, as soon as you've created an account & set it all up in your first Pup, everything's 'ready-to-go' when you fire it up in subsequent Pups. Plus, it's totally cross-platform.

Astonishingly, too, it detected the webcam correctly, and not only set-up the webcam's mike by default, but also gives you the option of which mike input to use, too. Handy for me, since I prefer using a headset/mic combo if I'm Skyping.

I roped my sister into playing guinea pig earlier on today from her Win 7 lappie.....and she, too, was pleasantly surprised at how good it was.

This one's recommended. :D


Mike. :wink:

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bigpup
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#23 Post by bigpup »

Marley wrote:Hi,
I just tried out an appimage for Synfig 1.2 using precise 5.7.1 - it didn't work.
I got it to work OK in Xenialpup 7.0.8.1

Got it from here:
https://www.fosshub.com/Synfig.html
Make sure you get the 32bit AppImage

Like any Linux program.
They require specific dependency files/programs to be in the Linux OPS.
Precise 5.7.1 may have them, but they are too old.
The Synfig website is not providing the info on what is needed in the Linux OPS as support.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
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mikeslr
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AppImages for 32-bit Operating Systems

#24 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,

There are AppImages for 32-bit Operating Systems. For example, digikam, https://download.kde.org/stable/digikam/ where the 32-bit AppImages include the identifier i386.

But they are few and far between. The best way to find one, if it exists, may be to do a web-search using the terms "appimage 32 bit NAME_OF_APPLICATION".

mikesLr

Marley
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#25 Post by Marley »

I got it to work OK in Xenialpup 7.0.8.1

Got it from here:
https://www.fosshub.com/Synfig.html
Make sure you get the 32bit AppImage

Like any Linux program.
They require specific dependency files/programs to be in the Linux OPS.

Precise 5.7.1 may have them, but they are too old.
The Synfig website is not providing the info on what is needed in the Linux OPS as support.
Thanks bigpup.

I have the 32bit but I might download again just in case there's a glitch in my file.

I posted the problem over on synfig too - they asked to see my error messages which were numerous beyond belief - pages and pages - old dependencies make sense. Maybe I'll ask synfig if they can be listed. Is it possible to update old dependency files if you know what they are? I've added dependencies but that's when they're totally missing -can you update them too? Or would I have to switch puppies . . . which brings me to the final quesiton -

Thanks for the heads up on Xenialpup working with the synfig appimage Does Xenialpup come in English - i've only found pictures of Xenial with icons with what I think is Japanese writing underthem.

Also, is it like other pups - can I run it from a live cd?

Oh, and last but possibly most important :D why does Xenialpup look like a SQUIRREL??!! What happened??!! :shock: :twisted: :lol:

Thanks for the input :D
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bigpup
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#26 Post by bigpup »

English Xenialpup

Get the iso from the official repository.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/test/xenialpup/
Also, is it like other pups - can I run it from a live cd?
It is just like any other official Puppy.
Is it possible to update old dependency files if you know what they are? I've added dependencies but that's when they're totally missing -can you update them too?
Basically replacing them with newer versions will update them.

That is basically what happens if you download a program using PPM (Puppy package manager) and it also downloads needed dependencies for the program.
Those are usually files that Puppy does not have or newer versions of files it does have.

However, overall it is better to just move to using a newer version of Puppy when newer versions of core files are needed.
Those newer versions may also need other updated core programs.
why does Xenialpup look like a SQUIRREL??!!
Ask Xenialpup developer!
I think he is loosing the Puppy them idea with that desktop background :lol:
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

backi
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#27 Post by backi »

Hi !
Fredx181 from Xenial Dog did another script for creating portable apps and Applmages .

"Already a while back I have put together an app for creating portable image : 'create-portable' 32-bit only.
Some of the code I took from "AppImageAssistant" by Simon Peter (probono), known from http://portablelinuxapps.org
Didn't share yet because I didn't take the time yet to test on different puppies (works ok for me on 32-bit DebianDog and XenialDog) (maybe I'll open new thread later in Additional Software after more testing)
So since you mentioned about portable-apps you may be interested in this.

Assumed is that you have prepared already the "app-root" directory, this can be an directory from extracted SFS, .deb or .pet file or just manually put together directory structure with inside e.g. usr/bin usr/share etc... Extracted SFS probably has the best chance to make the portable app work properly (e.g. created with apt2sfs).
The application will create 'AppRun' script in this "app-root" directory and create the portable-image.
There are 2 modes to choose from: "Chroot Mode" and "Portablelinuxapps Mode"
The Chroot Mode is the best IMO because it doesn't depend on relative paths (works pretty much the same as loading an SFS, (overlay)), but may be a bit slower (starting the app) because of more complex code.
Also there's choice (checkbox) for to create self-extracting-script instead portable-image
For more info, click on Info button "

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/wzi ... ble.tar.gz
Extract create-portable.tar.gz and run 'create-portable

Here it is also for 64-bit, appimage: "create-portable64" :
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/xxz ... e64.tar.gz
Topic discussed here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... &start=510

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mikeslr
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#28 Post by mikeslr »

Quote:
why does Xenialpup look like a SQUIRREL??!!

I'm not the developer. But, our Puppies which are woofed from the binaries of Ubuntu versions have traditionally been given a name drawn from of the Ubuntu version whose binaries were used. In this case, it was Ubuntu Xenial Xerus.

Ubuntu seems to have succumbed to the charm of our Puppies. :shock: While "xenial" is from Greek, and has to do with hospitality and the proper relationship between host and guest, Xerus is the species name of an African ground squirrel. You may be more familiar with another member of the genus to which Xerus belongs and which also lives in family colonies: The Meerkat. Oddly, the young of meerkat are called Pups. So, it isn't much of a stretch to also call the young of the Xerus "Pups". :lol:

Xenialpup: an hospitable small version of Xerus.

mikesLr

backi
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#29 Post by backi »

Hi !
To keep this topic alive ........find it really important .

What about " Nix " Packages .....anyone ever tried it ?
Have a look here :
https://nixos.org/nix/

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20170424#tips

ahoppin
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#30 Post by ahoppin »

> Try this in a terminal
>
> Code:
> su - spot
>
> then start the program from there.

You can also create a desktop icon to run it this way (assuming you're going to leave the program on your disk).

First open geany or your favorite text editor. Create a shell script in /usr/local/bin with the following contents:

#!/bin/sh
su -c /path/to/your/root-averse-program spot

Save the file. For (say) vlc you might name it something like vlc-spot.

Open your file manager (ROX or whatever you use) and navigate to /usr/local/bin. Right click on the file name and set the execute flag on permissions. Alternatively, you can open a console window and type

chmod ugo+x /usr/local/bin/vlc-spot

From the file manager, drag the file vlc-spot onto the desktop to create an icon.

Now you can start your program as non-root from that desktop icon.

If you want a nicer or more descriptive icon for it, open /usr/share/icons and click on files until you find something you like. If you don't like anything there, try the various directories under /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48.

When you find an icon you like, right-click on the desktop icon for your new program. Select file 'vlc-spot', then Set Icon. Drag the filename of whatever icon you like onto the blank that results. Done.

It sounds kind of complicated, but it's really not. It takes just a minute or so once you've done it a time or two.

Hope this helps.

ahoppin
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#31 Post by ahoppin »

> Like any Linux program.
> They require specific dependency files/programs to be in the Linux OPS.

Now wait, you mean these aren't static builds with all the dependencies compiled in? That seems all wrong to me.

IMO you should be able to put them on a thumb drive, plug the drive into any system, and run them instantly. They should require nothing but a bare Linux system to start, and leave nothing behind (not even config files or cache entries) when they exit.

Or am I misreading / misunderstanding this? I don't think I've heard the term "appimages" before, so maybe I don't get it.

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mikeslr
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Why you can't have a static build for all Linux distros

#32 Post by mikeslr »

Hi ahoppin,

The first public release of Linux was in 1991. That was 26 years ago. It's main significance in the grand scheme of things is that it was freely modifiable by anyone. And it was. Figure you start small, one modified version in 1992, with a modification of the 2 in 1993, 4 modifications in 1994 and so on. Trying to remember something from my 12th grade advanced math class --to pass it I needed a tutor, which led me to decide I wasn't really cut out for a career in physics-- the formula, I think, is 1 times 2 to the 26th power minus 1: x= 1 x (2pwr26*)-1**. At any rate, a lot. Distrowatch now reports on 285 published distros. At its height it reported on 323. Each of those distros may be available for different architectures, with different kernels and different window-managers resulting in several different "base" systems. A big lot.

For an application to run, the libraries --foundation files-- it requires either have to be present within the build of the application [a static build] or by the application accessing the libraries otherwise found on the system it is running under [shared/dynamic build]. An AppImage is a static build. But to have a static build which will run under every Linux OS -- well, picture the great wall of China and the time it took to build it. [Possible work-arounds: something like Wine, an application layer which can run under any distro and into which you could install applications. Or Java or Qt frameworks, but for these the application developer has to be able to program under them. Which is why many of us still employ Wine]***.

There is a serviceable work-around, not complete but serviceable. If clicking an AppImage doesn't result in a fully functional application, copy the AppImage giving it a simpler name, e.g. myapp. [Saves having to later type over a dozen alphanumerics]. Open a terminal to myapp's location and type "ldd myapp" -- without the quotes; or better still "ldd myapp > /root/myapp.txt". This will generate a text file in /root named myapp whose contents will show what libraries are present and which are absent. Install into your system the previously absent libraries. In many cases the AppImage will now function. Not as good as having the entire application outside of your operating system, but as libraries take up little space and are often few in number, better than having to install the entire application into your system; especially as the creator of the AppImage has done most of the hard work. Kind of like a modular home. You still have to lay the foundation and hook up the water and electricity.

mikesLr

* Forum software can't produce superscripts. 2 to the 26th power is 2 x 2 x 2... there being 26 2s in the string.

** In practice, there's a limiting factor. You run out of humans. :)

*** And see this thread: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 063#963063
Last edited by mikeslr on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 14:21, edited 2 times in total.

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Mike Walsh
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#33 Post by Mike Walsh »

Morning, all.

@ ahoppin:-

As I understand it, these AppImages are using pretty much a self-contained set of libs, etc. They do, however, seem to generate cache and config entries which they leave behind. I can't speak for other Linux distros (hell, I came to Puppy to get away from all the crap associated with most of the others!!), but there's a very simple way to make the AppImage self-contained (at least, where Pup's concerned.)

Very much along the lines of Davids45's 'remote applications' (achieved through liberal use of Pup's powerful sym-linking function), you would simply move the AppImage's .cache & .config files from /root into the AppImages's own directory, then sym-link them back to where you've just moved them from. That way, when you disconnect your USB drive with your AppImages on it, you are indeed moving the .cache & .config files with it. It'll still work as intended with any other Linux distro, and as far as Pup's concerned, all that's left behind is a pair of inactive sym-link 'pointers'.....which occupy no space at all.

Assuming your AppImage remains in exactly the same location on your USB drive, every time you plug it in and re-start it, the sym-links should re-activate. (As long as the USB drive mounts under the same mount-point, that is; otherwise, you'll have to re-create the links.)

That's just my 'take' on the matter, but I suspect the other Mike will agree with me on this one. I'm already using a couple of these on a regular basis; a single instance of the AppImage on an auto-mounted remote 'data' partition, started via MenuEntries in each Pup which I've manufactured for the purpose (it was Mike who put me onto the possibility of creating these in the first place, a couple of years ago).....workable, since these things are designed to run from anywhere (they are, of course, intended to be truly 'portable' from the the word go, and invariably start from an executable binary).


Mike. :wink:

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Mike Walsh
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#34 Post by Mike Walsh »

Afternoon, all.

Further information following on from using the Wire (Skype-type) AppImage for a few weeks:-

I've been using Wire across the kennels for a wee while now. Currently a total of 14 Pups; 10 on the big ol' Compaq desktop, and 4 on the old Dell lappie. On each machine, I'm running just a single instance of each architecture of Wire; one each of 32- and 64-bit on the Compaq, a single 32-bit instance on the old Dell (P4-based). In every Pup, since this is an executable, self-contained binary, and will run from anywhere in the system, I've constructed Menu entries for starting it......and this works very well.

In practice the only restriction I've come across with it is the number of 'registered' instances that you can have 'logged-in'. WireGmBH, the Swiss developers of this program, arbitrarily limit you to 7 instances 'on the go' at any one time..!

Ordinarily, of course, this limit wouldn't in practice be reached by most people. It's only Linux nuts like us who run multiple OSs who would get near it. Wire digitally 'fingerprints' every OS 'install'; even the same remote AppImage will generate a different fingerprint depending on which Pup you run it in.....no doubt using your Pup's hostname to differentiate between them.

If you approach your 7-login 'limit, you're offered the chance to input your password and delete an existing login, thus enabling you to login afresh on a new machine. It works well, and there's no limit to the number of times you can chop and change like this.

The only other thing I find a bit niggling is that on a fresh login, Wire won't show your chat history 'for security reasons'. Existing logins, this shows up as expected when you fire it up.

On the whole, I'm quite impressed with it, so far..!!


Mike. :wink:

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Mike Walsh
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#35 Post by Mike Walsh »

Evening, all.

Further information for you:-

I've just been trying out Krita; a professional painting/sketching program, capable of doing comic layouts, etc. It's laid out somewhere along the lines of a cross between Photoshop and the GIMP.

I didn't obtain this one from the same location as the others, further back in the thread; this came from the Krita website, as a directly-packaged, AppImage download. Same principle as the others, though; simply make it executable, and run it from anywhere you like.

Although 64-bit only, it runs perfectly in Tahr64 6.0.5., and starts up without any fuss at all. Slacko 64 6.3.0, on the other hand, doesn't want to play ball; 'libGL.so.1' in /usr/lib64 appears to be involved, with a 'symbol lookup error'..?? (I've never understood these, I'll own...)

Thoroughly recommended, if you take your graphics seriously (as I do). This'll give me plenty of opportunity to try out my newest purchase, a 'pen mouse'..... :D

Enjoy.


Mike. :wink:

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