Which puppy version/fork for i586 64MB?
Which puppy version/fork for i586 64MB?
I need a Linux distribution to install as a secondary, more modern OS to a Win98 retro gaming PC. Main purpose of the installation will be to access local SMB and NFS drives, go online for web and ftp, and access NTFS USB drives. The System is a Pentium 166MMX with 64MB RAM and a Matrox Mystique G220 4MB graphics card. I don't need bells and whistles. Is there a version of Puppy or a current fork that will run on this hardware? I know Tinycore is probably a choice but I'd rather stick with Puppy as I know it better.. Thank you kindly for your help in advance.
lina lite 005
regards...
first of all:
1. make one partition for lite 005,
2. format it in fat system,
3. with unetbootin install os,
4. reboot
now we shall see if new os will work...
do inform us
after, you can make remaster...
how is big your hdd?
first of all:
1. make one partition for lite 005,
2. format it in fat system,
3. with unetbootin install os,
4. reboot
now we shall see if new os will work...
do inform us
after, you can make remaster...
how is big your hdd?
Re: lina lite 005
40G total (38GB) partitioned as 3GB FAT32 Primary Active (Win98), 35 GB Extended with 32GB FAT32 Logical (Storage) and 3 GB FAT32 Logical (Reserved for linux, will be deleted and repartitioned as ext3/4 and swap)zagreb999 wrote:regards...
first of all:
1. make one partition for lite 005,
2. format it in fat system,
3. with unetbootin install os,
4. reboot
now we shall see if new os will work...
do inform us
after, you can make remaster...
how is big your hdd?
So as long as lina-lite can install onto /dev/hda4 and install GRUB onto /dev/hda1 boot sector it should be fine for me.
With all due respect to Zagreb your more likely to need an earlier Puppy like classic pup 214X, Puppy Linux 3.01 or 4.12 retro
Devuan Linux, Stardust 013 (4.31) updated [url]https://archive.org/details/Stardustpup013glibc2.10[/url]
s57(2018)barebone[url]https://sourceforge.net/projects/puppy-linux-minimal-builds/files/s57%282018%29barebones.iso/download[/url]
s57(2018)barebone[url]https://sourceforge.net/projects/puppy-linux-minimal-builds/files/s57%282018%29barebones.iso/download[/url]
Where can I find the hardware requirements and package contents of each? As long as one of them has a recent kernel and decent USB, SMB, NTFS support I'd be set.Robert123 wrote:With all due respect to Zagreb your more likely to need an earlier Puppy like classic pup 214X, Puppy Linux 3.01 or 4.12 retro
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Mike Walsh
- Posts: 6351
- Joined: Sat 28 Jun 2014, 12:42
- Location: King's Lynn, UK.
Unfortunately, I don't think you're going to find a recent kernel installed as standard into any Pup that will actually work with your hardware.
The problem is the minute amount of RAM. Most Pups that I'm aware of require an absolute minimum of 128 MB RAM to even run basically. There's no question that you'll need to do a 'full' install; it's what we always recommend for 'RAM-challenged' hardware. A 'frugal' simply won't work, since there isn't sufficient RAM for Pup to load into.
You may be able to install a later kernel into an earlier Pup; I know there's methods for doing this floating around the Forum.
As to which older Puppy, I'll leave those suggestions to others. I don't have experience of anything back before the 5-series Pups.....and you'll definitely need something earlier!
Robert123's suggestions sound like they make a lot more sense for your use-case.
I'd avoid TinyCore; their forums are worse than useless for giving advice to beginners. It's all 'RTFM..!!' (I have personal experience of this...
)
We will at least try to help you out as far as we can..!
Mike.
The problem is the minute amount of RAM. Most Pups that I'm aware of require an absolute minimum of 128 MB RAM to even run basically. There's no question that you'll need to do a 'full' install; it's what we always recommend for 'RAM-challenged' hardware. A 'frugal' simply won't work, since there isn't sufficient RAM for Pup to load into.
You may be able to install a later kernel into an earlier Pup; I know there's methods for doing this floating around the Forum.
As to which older Puppy, I'll leave those suggestions to others. I don't have experience of anything back before the 5-series Pups.....and you'll definitely need something earlier!
Robert123's suggestions sound like they make a lot more sense for your use-case.I'd avoid TinyCore; their forums are worse than useless for giving advice to beginners. It's all 'RTFM..!!' (I have personal experience of this...
)We will at least try to help you out as far as we can..!
Mike.
Last edited by Mike Walsh on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 10:51, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks to everyone who helped out. I guess I'll start out with 4.12 Retro, and go back version by version trying to suggestions above. Hopefully one of them will fit my bill, and maybe compile my own kernel with a more recent kernel source..
4.1.2 appears to require 128MB according to this: http://www.puppylinuxfaq.org/first-step ... ux/21.html
I will try it nevertheless and hope an install with a swap partition will be fine.. Otherwise, I'll try Puppy 3.01.
4.1.2 appears to require 128MB according to this: http://www.puppylinuxfaq.org/first-step ... ux/21.html
I will try it nevertheless and hope an install with a swap partition will be fine.. Otherwise, I'll try Puppy 3.01.
All a newer kernel will give you is support for newer hardware and maybe some newer features.
Your hardware does not need it.
In fact, a newer Linux kernel may not even have support for your hardware. They are dropping hardware support, for very old hardware, in the newer Linux kernels.
Yours is that very old hardware.
Minimum memory needed for Puppy is always based on a frugal install or live from a CD or USB.
These all load Puppy into memory.
Full installs of Puppy only load the basic operating files/programs into memory.
You will need a Linux swap partition to help the low memory.
Your hardware does not need it.
In fact, a newer Linux kernel may not even have support for your hardware. They are dropping hardware support, for very old hardware, in the newer Linux kernels.
Yours is that very old hardware.
Minimum memory needed for Puppy is always based on a frugal install or live from a CD or USB.
These all load Puppy into memory.
Full installs of Puppy only load the basic operating files/programs into memory.
You will need a Linux swap partition to help the low memory.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
If you do get one of the older Puppies working OK.
Internet browsing may be an issue.
Newer browsers are requiring newer versions of the Linux operating files and programs.
Web sites are requiring newer or newest versions of browsers.
Getting the newer browsers to work, in older Puppies, are going to be an issue, because the needed support files are not going to be in the Puppies.
I am not sure if these Puppies would be able to get the needed files updated.
In software, updates also usually require more memory to operate.
Browsers that at one time were 2 to 5 MB in size, are now 40, 50, 60 MB in size.
Internet browsing may be an issue.
Newer browsers are requiring newer versions of the Linux operating files and programs.
Web sites are requiring newer or newest versions of browsers.
Getting the newer browsers to work, in older Puppies, are going to be an issue, because the needed support files are not going to be in the Puppies.
I am not sure if these Puppies would be able to get the needed files updated.
In software, updates also usually require more memory to operate.
Browsers that at one time were 2 to 5 MB in size, are now 40, 50, 60 MB in size.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
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mostly_lurking
- Posts: 328
- Joined: Wed 25 Jun 2014, 20:31
I tried several Puppies on a virtual machine with 64MB of RAM and 4MB of video memory. 4.1.2 [*][/b][/color] might be at least somewhat usable with a swap partition (I ran it from the .iso image; couldn't figure out how to get the full install to work. Seamonkey 1 browser works, at least with lightweight sites like this forum). Of course, in my case the swap partition on the virtual disk was also held in RAM...
Carolina Lite (based on Racy, I think?) and Wary were failures. Either everything was agonizingly slow (Wary), or the X server failed to work - black screen with laggy cursor; probably crawling along trying to scrape a few MB's of memory together (Carolina; X works with 128MB).
As an aside, I've found that older Puppies seem to have some issues with Virtualbox's graphics setup. (The procedure for starting Wary's X server: run Xorgwizard > choose Xorg > Probe > wait until screen goes black > hit Return key repeatedly until desktop comes up. Maximum resolution is 640x480.
)
I agree with bigpup that web browsing could become a problem. Even with a light browser (which probably has very limited functionality), many of today's web sites may be too heavy for old computers.
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[*][/b][/color] I used this one; the retro version was slow as molasses on my virtual machine unless I increased the memory to 128MB (even with swap); no idea which one may work better for you.
Carolina Lite (based on Racy, I think?) and Wary were failures. Either everything was agonizingly slow (Wary), or the X server failed to work - black screen with laggy cursor; probably crawling along trying to scrape a few MB's of memory together (Carolina; X works with 128MB).
As an aside, I've found that older Puppies seem to have some issues with Virtualbox's graphics setup. (The procedure for starting Wary's X server: run Xorgwizard > choose Xorg > Probe > wait until screen goes black > hit Return key repeatedly until desktop comes up. Maximum resolution is 640x480.
)I agree with bigpup that web browsing could become a problem. Even with a light browser (which probably has very limited functionality), many of today's web sites may be too heavy for old computers.
------------
[*][/b][/color] I used this one; the retro version was slow as molasses on my virtual machine unless I increased the memory to 128MB (even with swap); no idea which one may work better for you.
Try Pup n Go -- but think modern browsing may be beyond it
With only 64 Mbs of RAM, you'll probably be limited to Pup 'n Go, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 262#383262
I never used it and trying to figure out how to get it to manage a modern browser makes my head hurt.
But recent versions are reported to be able to run Tiny Core as an extension. So, you may be able to have the best of both worlds, Puppy's friendly interface (and community) with Tiny Cores limited size. And, from Tiny Core a modern web-browser???
Your post suggest that your knowledge of manipulating Linux is several levels above mine. So, I hope this post leads you in the right direction.
But you might also want to consider Puppified dCore-Xenial http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109859 and the information provided on the corepup thread, maybe starting here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... &start=270.
mikesLr
I never used it and trying to figure out how to get it to manage a modern browser makes my head hurt.
But recent versions are reported to be able to run Tiny Core as an extension. So, you may be able to have the best of both worlds, Puppy's friendly interface (and community) with Tiny Cores limited size. And, from Tiny Core a modern web-browser???
Your post suggest that your knowledge of manipulating Linux is several levels above mine. So, I hope this post leads you in the right direction.
But you might also want to consider Puppified dCore-Xenial http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109859 and the information provided on the corepup thread, maybe starting here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... &start=270.
mikesLr
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Illutorium
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Wed 06 Aug 2014, 07:12
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
Who knows...
Who knows...
Remember: [b][i]"pecunia pecuniam parere non potest"[/i][/b]
Puppy 4.1.2 and Puppy 3.01 didn't go too well. I haven't tried 2.14X but I downloaded it.. However I kind of had to give up on Puppy after two failures.Galbi wrote:http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
Who knows...
DSL looks like exactly what I need, I'll try that tonight thanks a lot for the idea!
Swap File
I had a similar problem one time trying to put a version of Puppy Linux on a computer with insufficient memory for Puppy. The key is to build a swap file before starting Puppy on the problem computer.
That is, one builds the swap file on a computer which has enough memory to boot a version of Puppy, and then puts the Swap file where the Puppy boot can find it. Puppy will usually find it automatically, and use it.
I seem to recall a suggestion that the Swap File should be twice the size of the actual memory available. (Shrugs, I don't know why that is suggested)
Perhaps choose one of the Retro Puppies that is likely to be useful with the hardware you have. Then install that to start to a USB Key which you add Swap File, and a Pup Save file. Boot from USB Key. Likewise, one could remaster an optical Disk to boot from. Or simply build a Swap File on a computer which will start Puppy, copy the Swap File onto the hard drive of the computer you are boot from.
Anyway, the key is to make the swap file available to Puppy, on the 64 MB RAM computer available before booting Puppy. I am not aware of any version of Puppy which will boot for the first time in only 64 MB RAM, but I don't know everything.
That is, one builds the swap file on a computer which has enough memory to boot a version of Puppy, and then puts the Swap file where the Puppy boot can find it. Puppy will usually find it automatically, and use it.
I seem to recall a suggestion that the Swap File should be twice the size of the actual memory available. (Shrugs, I don't know why that is suggested)
Perhaps choose one of the Retro Puppies that is likely to be useful with the hardware you have. Then install that to start to a USB Key which you add Swap File, and a Pup Save file. Boot from USB Key. Likewise, one could remaster an optical Disk to boot from. Or simply build a Swap File on a computer which will start Puppy, copy the Swap File onto the hard drive of the computer you are boot from.
Anyway, the key is to make the swap file available to Puppy, on the 64 MB RAM computer available before booting Puppy. I am not aware of any version of Puppy which will boot for the first time in only 64 MB RAM, but I don't know everything.
Re: Swap File
Well I installed DSL and in the process created a 128MB Swap partition, so I may give 4.1.2 retro another go.. DSL is great, but NTFS access is pretty poor due to no ntfs-3g and it doesn't play well with Mass Storage devices on the TX board's ancient USB controller..purple379 wrote:I had a similar problem one time trying to put a version of Puppy Linux on a computer with insufficient memory for Puppy. The key is to build a swap file before starting Puppy on the problem computer.
That is, one builds the swap file on a computer which has enough memory to boot a version of Puppy, and then puts the Swap file where the Puppy boot can find it. Puppy will usually find it automatically, and use it.
I seem to recall a suggestion that the Swap File should be twice the size of the actual memory available. (Shrugs, I don't know why that is suggested)
Perhaps choose one of the Retro Puppies that is likely to be useful with the hardware you have. Then install that to start to a USB Key which you add Swap File, and a Pup Save file. Boot from USB Key. Likewise, one could remaster an optical Disk to boot from. Or simply build a Swap File on a computer which will start Puppy, copy the Swap File onto the hard drive of the computer you are boot from.
Anyway, the key is to make the swap file available to Puppy, on the 64 MB RAM computer available before booting Puppy. I am not aware of any version of Puppy which will boot for the first time in only 64 MB RAM, but I don't know everything.
EDIT: 4.1.2 Retro booted and installed fine with DSL's Swap partition in place, although GRUB had to be sorted out, but eventually it works with a FULL install. Not super smooth or anything, and only works using XVesa but it's surprisingly well nonetheless, and allows me to access SMB, NFS shares and NTFS USB hard drives to tranfer files to this retro PC. Thanks to everyone who helped!