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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Browsers and Internet
Some websites seem to overload the computer
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 741

PostPosted: Fri 05 May 2017, 07:08    Post subject:  Some websites seem to overload the computer  

Can I ask anyone out there, who is still on older system (say 10-12 years or less), are you seeing anything in terms of all the browsers, from Slimjet/Sliboat, to Palemoon, to Chromium/Chrome, to Firefox (ESR & otherwise), to Vivaldi...are any of you seeing them, when they land on a video intensive-site with embedded videos (like news sites, yahoo, etc) are you seeing these browsers slowly ramp up until your CPU is screaming at 100% capacity, and the browsers either shutdown and/or lock your system up?

I have tried all the above browsers, the newest iterations of them, across many donated laptops at the school I help out with, and also on my own big systems at home 2.8GHz dual-core AMD, 4-1GB RAM, SSD systems using ASUS, Gigabyte an Biotstar motherboards.

I've seen this behavior in all woof-CE builds I've recently done, from Tahrs to Xenials to Slackos to Dpups, and even from the downloaded ISOs of the people who put stuff up. What is going on? Has something changed? This all became noticeable when woof recently made the big jump in kernels up to the 4.10.#/4.9.#/4.4.# group. When I use the older kernels, this behavior above is nowhere near what it is with the newer kernels.

Is this a new kernel problem? Or does it have nothing to do with it and is the browser's newest version problems? It's getting to the point where the browsing experience is being severely curtailed and/or ruined.

What I don't understand is that when I use a mid-sized Linux ISO build (Manjaro, Solus, Elementary, Bodhi), or even a big Linux distro (Mint, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, full Debian)....I see none of this behavior on any of my systems and the browsers run fine, never taking over the CPU like it does in Puppy land.

Is there something I can change and/or add to my puppies HD stable where I could stop this behavior by the browsers and/or kernels?? I don't want to keep having to use the old kernels, mainly for security reasons, and also their inability to run some newer stuff. So I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place regarding what is going on right now.

I just wanted to know if my experience is isolated, or if others are seeing it too?

Thanks
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 12544
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 05 May 2017, 08:22    Post subject:  

It happens to me too, in Quirky Werewolf 64 and also in an older Puppy, I forget which, both with SeaMonkey. Some websites load so much crap on the page that it bogs down the computer, sometimes even after I close the browser tab. In that case, the abuse stops only after I use Pprocess to kill Mozilla and then restart SeaMonkey with the websites I was looking at before I killed it. I don't have any real clue what's going on, but It seems like it must be a browser setting.
My computer's motherboard is only a few years old, with a dual-core AMD CPU, integrated Radeon graphics and 4 GB of RAM.
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watchdog

Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 1371
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Fri 05 May 2017, 09:37    Post subject:  

I have not the problem but I must say I use to browse the web with JS switch extension disabled and I enable it only at need. Noscript extension should also help avoiding heavy javascripts. Can you post some links to test with? I have read of the browser.tabs.remote.autostart in about:config set to true to enable multiprocess in firefox 45.9.0esr. Palemoon has a similar browser.tabs.remote setting which I have not tested.

Edit: errata-corrige: multiprocess is available from firefox 48.0.

Last edited by watchdog on Fri 05 May 2017, 09:47; edited 1 time in total
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 741

PostPosted: Fri 05 May 2017, 09:41    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
It happens to me too, in Quirky Werewolf 64 and also in an older Puppy, I forget which, both with SeaMonkey. Some websites load so much crap on the page that it bogs down the computer, sometimes even after I close the browser tab. In that case, the abuse stops only after I use Pprocess to kill Mozilla and then restart SeaMonkey with the websites I was looking at before I killed it. I don't have any real clue what's going on, but It seems like it must be a browser setting.
My computer's motherboard is only a few years old, with a dual-core AMD CPU, integrated Radeon graphics and 4 GB of RAM.



Thanks, flash, I was starting to go crazy thinking I am the only one. Something that really confuses me, though, is that when I have to use PProcess/HTOP to close down the browser (take your pick of any of them, lol), but when I go to close it down, all PProcess and/or HTOP say is "X", and they don't even list the browser as being open. It says "X' is running the cpu at 100%. So I've gotta kill "X" (the desktop), for it all to stop, which drops me to a command-line and I lose everything I'd been doing, and then I have to type in "startx" or "rwin" to get back to the desktop. It almost makes me think I've some sort of virus (that busybox thing from last year) that has populated across all of my frugal pup installs, but then that doesn't make sense for what's also going on the school and with family members using pups with the latest kernels. My own personal frugal installs currently are:

64-bit pups:
--TahrPup64 6.0.6 w/ kernel 3.14.79
--TahrPup64 6.0.6 w/ kernel 4.9.15
--XenailPup64 7.0.8 w/ kernel 4.9.15
--XenialPup64 7.0.8.4 w/ kernel 4.9.21
--Slacko64 6.9.6.4 w/ kernel 4.9.15
--Slacko64 6.9.6.4 w/ kernel 4.4.60

32-bit pups:
--CarolinaVanguard R2 w/ kernel 3.18.1
--Dpup-Stretch 700 w/ kernel 4.1.31
--PuppyPrecise 5.7.1 w/ kernel 3.9.11 PAE
--Slacko32 6.9.6.4 w/ kernel 3.14.78
--Slacko32 6.9.6.4 w/ kernel 4.9.21
--X-Tahr-2.0 w/ kernel 3.14.56

Not one of 3-series kernels above (1 in 64-bit, 4 in 32-bit), nor the independent (Tux-complied) 4.1.31 kernel, ever displays this behavior we're describing here.

But Lord have mercy, on any of those systems using the 4.4.#, 4.9.#, or 4.10.# kernels, whether 32 and 64-bit, the computer systems go wild----with any browser, where CPU ramps to 100%, and PProcess/HTOP saying no browser is open and that the process "X" is using 100% cpu. We've also seen this at over 25-30 laptops at the school I volunteer with, and some of those laptops are only 2-3 years old with powerful dual core processors and craploads of ram.

I am thinking there is possibly a major problem across the kernels 4.4.#/4.9.#, and 4.10.#. Pprocess and HTOP should not be showing 100% cpu of process "X" when a browser is open and landing on these sites. Heck, I've had to quit Peebee's creations I so liked because of so many problems appearing in these new kernels and new Xorgs. So is it just the kernels? New Xorg's? A combo? Or what? It can't just suddenly be ALL websites discovering embedded videos and such---especially when the older kernels listed above play them fine with none of this runaway cpu bejavior.

I just don't have the skills where to look and/or start to fix this. At the school, we've taken every laptop back down to 3-series kernels, with various diff pups, and all has returned to normal. But the 3-series are EOL, so this is problematic. I guess here I am going to have to install Debian-Live versions, with XFCE/Openbox/Fluxbox. Was hoping to avoid this, but it seems there is no other way now. The kids cannot even go to the sites the teachers ask them too because of what is happening if I put the new kernels back in. And this ALL started when the kernels made the huge jump from 3-series up to 4-series, with Xorg problems coming with them. Crying or Very sad
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 328
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Fri 05 May 2017, 09:59    Post subject:  

I have seen exactly this problem as well with some websites completely bogging down the system to the point of crash.

First of all I will say it is the web developers fault. Who writes code like this? I think that like microsoft programmers who code without any thought to machine resources and that some consumer may not have HAL 9000 to run the programs, has gotten to be the norm.

I learned to program when 4 kilobytes was the total RAM in a machine and one used assembly code. And the pride was in how few lines and how little memory the program had and used. That was a "hacker" back in the day.
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Moose On The Loose


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 727

PostPosted: Fri 05 May 2017, 11:04    Post subject:  

rockedge wrote:
I have seen exactly this problem as well with some websites completely bogging down the system to the point of crash.

First of all I will say it is the web developers fault. Who writes code like this? I think that like microsoft programmers who code without any thought to machine resources and that some consumer may not have HAL 9000 to run the programs, has gotten to be the norm.

I learned to program when 4 kilobytes was the total RAM in a machine and one used assembly code. And the pride was in how few lines and how little memory the program had and used. That was a "hacker" back in the day.


I have noticed an increasing use of things like the bogosort method on webshites. I have also noticed other annoying things that slow me down:

1) If you want to sell me nuts and bolts, how come 95% of the web page is used up on a picture of your dog?

2) Why does the "mobile version" of your site work worse on my android device than the standard version?

3) Why did you use a giant script to do what HTML does more effectively?

My first personal computer was a ZX80. I wrote a quite nice "startrek" game on it.
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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 487
Location: Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.

PostPosted: Fri 05 May 2017, 12:30    Post subject:  

watchdog wrote:
I have not the problem but I must say I use to browse the web with JS switch extension disabled and I enable it only
at need. Noscript extension should also help avoiding heavy javascripts. Can you post some links to test with? I have
read of the browser.tabs.remote.autostart in about:config set to true to enable multiprocess in firefox 45.9.0esr. Palemoon
has a similar browser.tabs.remote setting which I have not tested.

Edit: errata-corrige: multiprocess is available from firefox 48.0.


What watchdog said will allow you control of the unwanted. I will add that you can often not even need js for a js intensive site if all you
want to do is view it. By choosing >View>Page Style>No Style will more often than not allow you to view the unformatted page and read
articles. If you are trying to look at some of the videos and embedded stuff then there is no hope.


It will probably be a challenge to get those at school to understand that its better to make your visitors knock on the door to get in, rather
than leaving the door wide open.

All this would entail the use of a browser that has those tools available, of course.

.

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slavvo67

Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Posts: 1378
Location: The other Mr. 305

PostPosted: Fri 05 May 2017, 13:02    Post subject:  

I've noticed some slowdown, as well. Java is the devil so I use it as little as possible. Amazingly, many sites still use it....
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mostly_lurking

Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Fri 05 May 2017, 13:05    Post subject:  

I have neither a 4-series kernel nor a hardware-accelerated graphics driver, nor do I know which websites cause the trouble - so I can't test it, but I wonder if it would make a difference to disable the browser's hardware acceleration, since the problem as you describe it appears to be related to the kernel and graphics setup.

Firefox etc. might have such an option in the preferences dialog; alternatively, open about:config and search for things with "acceleration" in their name.

If it's Flash-based content that's causing the issues, you can turn off the Flashplayer's hardware acceleration by right-clicking any Flash window and opening the settings dialog.

@ rockedge and Moose:
I completely agree - many web developers have gone way overboard, both with useless features and bad coding. (And way too much Javascript, because every "big" site now needs a million trackers to spy on its users...) I now keep Javascript disabled most of the time, and I find myself turning off CSS more and more often. I've really come to appreciate reading pages that are just plain black-on-white text, rather than being distracted by large blocks of color, slideshows, floating menus and whatever else is currently considered "stylish".
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 756

PostPosted: Fri 05 May 2017, 13:27    Post subject:  

The noscript addon is how I deal with this.

You can enable scripts you need to run pages you go to often and it will remember them. It is a pain at first, but it doesn't take too long to have most of what you actually need enabled (except for the news sites).

When I set it up, I put three buttons on the top bar of my browser. The first one is the default that lets you pick the scripts to run. The second to temporarily enable all the scripts on that web page (sometimes you need to press it more than once to get things to work). The third to disable all temporarily enabled scripts. I also make the setting to only refresh the tab I am on when I enable or disable a script.
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 663
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Fri 05 May 2017, 22:35    Post subject:  

Part of the problem is that many of you have a lot of bookmarks, open a lot of tabs, and want to have the services like using bookmarks and history to suggest completions to a site's address. If you have a browser with a status bar, you can see a lot of addresses fly by when you open a page, most of them totally unknown, but always Google analytics, there is an extension NO google analytics to turn that off. You have automatic Health reports sent to Mozilla, telemetry, datareporting to services you never even heard about, storage of visited sites, automatic updates of add-ons and extensions, network prefetching sites based upon your browsing history, etcetera, etcetera...All those services are activated when you visit a new site.

So the question is, what do you want your browser to do for you?

Most problems can be eliminated by settings in about:config. Don't be afraid to try, most setting have a Reset option in the menu.

http://kb.mozillazine.org/About:config_entries
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Category:Preferences

https://gecko.readthedocs.io/en/latest/toolkit/components/telemetry/telemetry/preferences.html

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/18/a-comprehensive-list-of-firefox-privacy-and-security-settings/

http://12bytes.org/articles/tech/firefoxgecko-configuration-guide-for-privacy-and-performance-buffs

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/11/list-of-pale-moon-specific-aboutconfig-preferences/

My list of sites is a couple of years old, these sites are mostly updated every day.

A lot of reading, some of it has the potential to turn your hair gray over night... Shocked

tallboy

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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 2638
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 07 May 2017, 07:00    Post subject:  

Moose On The Loose wrote:
I have noticed an increasing use of things like the bogosort method on webshites. I have also noticed other annoying things that slow me down:

1) If you want to sell me nuts and bolts, how come 95% of the web page is used up on a picture of your dog?

2) Why does the "mobile version" of your site work worse on my android device than the standard version?

3) Why did you use a giant script to do what HTML does more effectively?

My first personal computer was a ZX80. I wrote a quite nice "startrek" game on it.


Moose, I gotta agree with you. Especially about the ZX80!

I will confess, at the time (just after leaving secondary education) we were lucky; we had the 'Rolls-Royce' of the time; a Commodore 64. But it was still only 64K of RAM; a lot compared to your ZX80, it's true.....but still a tiny amount to play with. I learnt BASIC programming on there; I wrote a couple of 'Hangman'-type games, and did some quite inspired modifications to one of the C64's ROM-cartridge synthesizer programs.

Like rockedge says, you didn't have much option other than to be as economical with your coding as you could.....

In all honesty, although I find that it doesn't handle SSL certificates very well, for general browsing you can't beat QTWeb. It's fast, responsive, and, for me at least, doesn't seem to be fazed by 'heavy' websites the way Chrome, FireFox et al are. And it's extremely economical with RAM usage, even with multiple tabs open.

It's worth a look. If you'd like to try it, Oscar has done a tweaked version of the JP431-compiled 3.8.5 version, which works in just about all Puppies:-

http://smokey01.com/OscarTalks/qtweb-3.8.5-jp431.pet


Mike. Wink

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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 12544
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sun 07 May 2017, 19:27    Post subject:  

Here's a website that bogged down my computer (Quirky Werewolf 64 with SeaMonkey.) Apparently, that website is dedicated to wretched excess in every possible way.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 2638
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 07 May 2017, 19:57    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
Here's a website that bogged down my computer (Quirky Werewolf 64 with SeaMonkey.) Apparently, that website is dedicated to wretched excess in every possible way.


I can't really say as I'm that surprised, Flash! uBlock original reports a total of 84 trackers on that page; you've got several 'auto-playing' videos, and God alone knows how many cookies there must be.....

This kind of thing is exactly what rockedge is talking about. It's mainly the capability merry-go-round we're looking at here; as hardware manufacturers develop ever more powerful and capable hardware, so the software writers seem to feel it's their duty to make sure their code utilises it all as thoroughly as possible...

Even Chrome 59 'beta' struggled with that website you linked to.....and that's the first time I've ever had QTWeb crash on me. And that's with 4 GB of RAM... Rolling Eyes

'Nuff said.


Mike. Wink

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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 3121
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sun 07 May 2017, 21:04    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
Flash wrote:
Here's a website that bogged down my computer (Quirky Werewolf 64 with SeaMonkey.) Apparently, that website is dedicated to wretched excess in every possible way.


I can't really say as I'm that surprised, Flash! uBlock original reports a total of 84 trackers on that page; you've got several 'auto-playing' videos, and God alone knows how many cookies there must be.....

This kind of thing is exactly what rockedge is talking about. It's mainly the capability merry-go-round we're looking at here; as hardware manufacturers develop ever more powerful and capable hardware, so the software writers seem to feel it's their duty to make sure their code utilises it all as thoroughly as possible...

Even Chrome 59 'beta' struggled with that website you linked to.....and that's the first time I've ever had QTWeb crash on me. And that's with 4 GB of RAM... Rolling Eyes

'Nuff said.


Mike. Wink


Hi,

That webpage runs fine with this version of xenialpup64:

root# inxi -b
System: Host: puppypc36812 Kernel: 4.4.66 x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop: JWM 2.3.6
Distro: xenialpup64 7.0.8.4
Machine: System: Acer (portable) product: Aspire V5-571P v: V2.17 serial:
Mobo: Acer model: Aspire V5-571P v: V2.17 serial:
Bios: Phoenix v: V2.17 date: 02/27/2013
CPU: Dual core Intel Core i3-3227U (-HT-MCP-) speed/max: 900/1901 MHz
Graphics: Card: Intel 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller
Display Server: X.org 1.18.4 driver: intel tty size: 108x33 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Network: Card-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller driver: r8169
Card-2: Broadcom BCM43228 802.11a/b/g/n driver: bcma-pci-bridge
Drives: HDD Total Size: 500.1GB (5.5% used)
Info: Processes: 188 Uptime: 4:29 Memory: 512.4/5766.8MB Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 2.2.35
root#

Ublock origin shows 80+ items blocked but it doesn't seem to slow the
computer down, it's been up for over 4 hours this session.

EDIT: The question was about the cpu racing so I took another screenshot, the pc has been up for just short of 7 hour now.
Time for bed Smile
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Last edited by Billtoo on Sun 07 May 2017, 23:25; edited 1 time in total
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