Languages in the world

Puppy related raves and general interest that doesn't fit anywhere else
Message
Author
Pelo

Languages in the world

#1 Post by Pelo »

Languages in the world (source : reverso)
Madre, damned :!: , where is French ?
Catalan, Catalogne, where is it ?
Attachments
leslangues.jpg
I spend all my day long translating what i think, and they misunderstand me, Mon Dieu !
(62.05 KiB) Downloaded 558 times
Last edited by Pelo on Sun 11 Sep 2016, 16:28, edited 1 time in total.

step
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri 04 May 2012, 11:20

#2 Post by step »

Attachments
MSP33720didi2i3g1b8633000061ae1h05ihfgi27f.gif
(23.07 KiB) Downloaded 505 times
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Fatdog64-810[/url]|[url=http://goo.gl/hqZtiB]+Packages[/url]|[url=http://goo.gl/6dbEzT]Kodi[/url]|[url=http://goo.gl/JQC4Vz]gtkmenuplus[/url]

gcmartin

#3 Post by gcmartin »

Am I wrong? "Most French 1st language people also speak other languages fluently." Unlike US citizens where 92% only speak US English. Reason: Foreign language has not be a student requirement in 3 decades (primary/secondary/collegiate levels).

User avatar
moeppyfan
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu 11 Feb 2016, 18:59

Re: Languages in the world

#4 Post by moeppyfan »

Pelo wrote:where is French ?
18th (1.12%) according to Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers

But if you include 2nd language it moves up quite a lot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#5 Post by musher0 »

gcmartin wrote:Am I wrong? "Most French 1st language people also speak other languages fluently." Unlike US citizens where 92% only speak US English. Reason: Foreign language has not be a student requirement in 3 decades (primary/secondary/collegiate levels).
Hi gc.

If you could back up those statements with some sources, it would be best. But off
the bat, I'd say you're right: that is because of the economic position of American
English.

If you're the 1st economic power in the world, you can afford to snub other
languages... Other peoples come to you for your... money! (Sorry for ruffling the
feathers of the people of the Bald Eagle!) :)

As to a reason among French-speakers themselves, I'd say perhaps 25 millions of
them live in federated states : Switzerland, Belgium, Canada. In a federation,
learning at least one of the other languages spoken in the land has to be national
policy to preserve national unity.

~~~~~~~~
In moeppyfan's references, I'm surprised NOT to see stats for aboriginal languages.

For example, In the Quid one-book French encyclopedia, 2000 edition, the quechua/
aymara group was listed as having 80 million speakers -- more than French native
speakers at the time. Now wikipedia says the quechua language only has 8,5
millions speakers.

What happened? Did the linguists redo the head-count? There was a tragic epidemic
nobody heard about in the Andes? The Quid was wrong? wikipedia is wrong?

~~~~~~~~
Also, I'm surprised to see that there is NO mention in those stats, of bambara, the
widely spoken language used for commerce in Western Africa. It's the equivalent of
swahili, but for West Africa.

Something's fishy here.

My 2¢. BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

User avatar
Burn_IT
Posts: 3650
Joined: Sat 12 Aug 2006, 19:25
Location: Tamworth UK

#6 Post by Burn_IT »

Where on those graphs is US English mentioned??
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#7 Post by musher0 »

Hi burn_IT.

US English is not mentioned in the graphs. I was replying to gcmartin's post.

BFN.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

User avatar
Burn_IT
Posts: 3650
Joined: Sat 12 Aug 2006, 19:25
Location: Tamworth UK

#8 Post by Burn_IT »

SO was I!!
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

User avatar
6502coder
Posts: 677
Joined: Mon 23 Mar 2009, 18:07
Location: Western United States

#9 Post by 6502coder »

gcmartin wrote:Am I wrong? "Most French 1st language people also speak other languages fluently." Unlike US citizens where 92% only speak US English. Reason: Foreign language has not be a student requirement in 3 decades (primary/secondary/collegiate levels).
Actually, a knowledge of a foreign language is a routine requirement for getting a BS degree in science or engineering in the US. Where I went to college it took knowledge of TWO foreign languages to get a BS degree in electrical engineering. And I would guess that the majority of US high school students study a foreign language, although my perception may be skewed because I have lived mostly in states with substantial Hispanic populations, so Spanish is popular.

But yes, FLUENCY is low because as a practical matter, fluency -- and especially SPEAKING fluency, as opposed to READING fluency -- is rarely needed in the US.

Pelo

French babies learn english when they are four years old

#10 Post by Pelo »

French babies learn english when they are four years old, But learn no magyar, polish, russian. Euro is the commun currency, but english is the common language. Computers are still sold in pouces (inches) Inch is the length of the king's one, is not it ?
In the forum Puppy, perhaps french user speak english to french user, ignoring that both of are native from France. 'its a long way to Paris" "All roads lead to Chicago"
Please, speak french a little bit, we shall see 'la vie en rose'. Forum francophone is widely opened, you are welcome. Bienvenue chez nous.
However, i recognize I progress a lot chatting with you, Puppy Linux save old computers, but old french people too, never i had spoke so much english than since i practice Puppy. :)
Attachments
idioma.jpg
young hungarian studing english with Suli (Puppy Linux)
(52.74 KiB) Downloaded 337 times

User avatar
Burn_IT
Posts: 3650
Joined: Sat 12 Aug 2006, 19:25
Location: Tamworth UK

#11 Post by Burn_IT »

Was that "see the World through rose tinted glasses"??
or more likely "life is rosy" which is closer!!
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

Pelo

What is a pity for french native citizen is azerty keyboard

#12 Post by Pelo »

What is a pity for french native citizen is the azerty keyboard. Only two countries use that.
Many countries learn two languages at school, but who practice the second one :?: , excepted teachers and international business men (and Puppy users from Europe, of course)

Pelo

Please, don't use your keyboard to play Puppy.

#13 Post by Pelo »

The best keyboard in the world (console, in french)
Please, don't use your keyboard to play Puppy.
Something strange for me, only around thirty keyboards are available in Puppy. How do people do for typing in their native language ?
Attachments
ideal.jpg
International keyboard.
(47.57 KiB) Downloaded 190 times
Last edited by Pelo on Fri 08 Apr 2016, 02:47, edited 1 time in total.

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

Re: Please, don't use your keyboard to play Puppy.

#14 Post by musher0 »

Pelo wrote:The best keyboard in the world (console, in french)
Please, don't use your keyboard to play Puppy.
Something strange for me, only around thirty keyboards are available in Puppy. How do people do for typing in their native language ?
There's a second set of different keyboards under "Advanced Keyboard" settings.

I leave teenager pelo to his "keyboard"! :lol:
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

User avatar
nic007
Posts: 3408
Joined: Sun 13 Nov 2011, 12:31
Location: Cradle of Humankind

#15 Post by nic007 »

We have 11 official languages but English is a compulsary second language (which is good). I would say that the standard of English used by our "English as second language speakers" is quite good compared to what you will find in other countries.

Pelo

I was surprised to discover many Puppies undknown here.

#16 Post by Pelo »

language is as real problem for Puppy's activities.
I really have a good level in english because 30 years of real practice at work...
But ... but.. Most of people don't practice english, excepted songs or games.
And (Here i am not joking) it's very hard exercice..
Translation english french well it's the easier
Understanding the linux subject
Think about answer
Translate it to english.. (generally fast food, you are not at school, you trust your colleagues to guess what you are meaning)
That explains why there are forums and Facebook sites growing outside here. I was surprised to discover many Puppies unknown here. (sourceforge.net)
Forums very active are south america, and russian. Some versions of Puppies (jessie) or archlinux (russian) are in advanced (prototype) but run.

Antipodal
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu 26 Mar 2009, 16:52
Location: The other side of the world

Re: I was surprised to discover many Puppies undknown here.

#17 Post by Antipodal »

Pelo wrote:language is as real problem for Puppy's activities.
I'm almost sure that "Je suis absolument d'acord avec ça" means "I absolutely agree with that".

That is why several years ago, when I thought that world wide promotion of Puppy was a priority, in one of my first posts I proposed adding non-English language subforums in the "Beginners Help (Start Here)" forum to the ones that already existed in the "Users (For the regulars)" forum at that time.

My proposal was never carried out.
I'm not sure of what were the reasons.

Over the time I have discovered that some technical forums have threads that help people with difficulties with the official language.

I have thought that perhaps we should copy them here, in this Puppy forum, because that would not require changes in the forum's format nor would it increase the forum's staff work and there are chances it would help in reducing some of the problems that have been described in this thread.

It could even be carried out easily in the "Pour les francophones", "Für deutschsprachige Anhänger" and the "Usuarios de habla Hispana" subforums of the "Users (For the regulars)" forum
In each, (French, German and Spanish speaking) users could help other users with difficulties in the official language of each subforum.

Just thinking aloud. :)

Antipodal.

User avatar
6502coder
Posts: 677
Joined: Mon 23 Mar 2009, 18:07
Location: Western United States

Re: I was surprised to discover many Puppies undknown here.

#18 Post by 6502coder »

Antipodal wrote:My proposal was never carried out.
I'm not sure of what were the reasons.
I can think of a number of obstacles.

1. Forum participation is all voluntary, so you get what you get.

2. An accurate translation requires someone who is fluent in both languages PLUS knows the subject matter in question. Not many people are going to meet all three requirements.

3. Computer technologies are particularly difficult subjects because many terms have very precise meanings, and often different precise meanings in different contexts, so that it is very easy to be misunderstood, even in conversations between two subject matter experts speaking in a common native tongue.

And as any regular visitor to this forum knows, the problem is compounded by beginners who often misuse certain terms (because they don't KNOW they're misusing them), which results a lot of confused back-and-forth before their questions are even understood, much less answered.

For all these reasons, someone who is (say) a native English speaker and an expert on bash, with a working (but not fluent) knowledge of French, might well hesitate to offer help in French for fear of producing inaccurate translations (in both directions) that only make things worse.

The only practical solution I think is for non-English-speaking subject matter experts to write the tutorials for beginners in their own language, or to do the translations of tutorials from English or whatever into their own language.

User avatar
Burn_IT
Posts: 3650
Joined: Sat 12 Aug 2006, 19:25
Location: Tamworth UK

#19 Post by Burn_IT »

I agree with that.
I can read a little French and German and can usually understand the question asked in those languages, but I would certainly not be able to reply accurately in them.
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

Pelo

we have the philosophy of help between users

#20 Post by Pelo »

"2. An accurate translation requires someone who is fluent in both languages PLUS knows the subject matter in question. Not many people are going to meet all three requirements. "
Yes sure, people cannot describe the problems to solve in a fluent english, so they create forums outside here. Puppy is sucessfull in eastern Europe, many applications for Puppy are born there (Click 'about' to see who is the creator)
The harder is certainly for the german newbie to explain in english what is not working with his little Linux.
About help between users from same countries, we have the philosophy of help. But often the answer is known only by the puppy-buider, who has to keep informed what questions are asked about its Puppy. Now spanish Puppy builders have they own forum, they post here to promote, but receive complains in their specific forum... Or Facebook... Russian have issued a Puppy based on archlinux, they are back here. That is good for the Innovation. Wait and see.
And i should say a Puppy which is not british is completely ignored here... Pupppy is australian. It's not choking that the pedigree is a criteria... But England has lost the mundial of rugby in England, damned (The winner was not Italia :) ouf)

Post Reply