tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.5 (made via a woof-next fork)

Under development: PCMCIA, wireless, etc.
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s243a
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tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.5 (made via a woof-next fork)

#1 Post by s243a »

==================================

Update (27 Aug 19 - new version)
s243a wrote:Here's a new version.
tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.5.iso

The only testing that I did was installing firefox-esr

Code: Select all

/usr/local/petget/0setup
pkg --get firefox-esr
pkg --get libavcodec-extra57
In this release I made some changes to sc0tmann's package manager (i.e. pkg). See post:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 70#1035370

I'm fairly postive that these changes have resulted in a significant speed improvement in installing packages. I was hoping that it would fix an issue related to libstdc++ being re-installed [1] when I install firefox. Unfortunatly this isn't the case.

Notes
--------------------
1. it isn't exactly the case that libstdc++ is re-installed instead an older version is installed instead (see post) but without removing the current version of libstdc++. The issue might be related to the way that pkg parses dependency information,
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 51#1035451
End Update (27 Aug 19 - new version)


==================================


Update (27 Sep 19 - remastered version with Icecat browser)
If one is looking for a version with a browser pre-installed darry has created such a remaster:
darry19662018 wrote:Made an iso that includes GNUIcecat and GNUIceweasel-uxp, Deadbeef 1.80, static mplayer, mtpaint, flcalc and xarchiver from tinycore, parchive, pupcontrolpanel, pfind, peasypdf, mupdf, epdfview (older version less deps), firewall.ng, ......

https://archive.org/download/tiny_pudua ... sel%29.iso

Did this to test remasterpup2 which worked.:)
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/templa ... nipost.gif
End Update (27 Sep 19 - remastered version with Icecat browser)


==================================

About the puppy derivative

==================================

At this point this is a very experimental release. It is built using woof-next.

Package managers

There are two package managers:
1. Sc0ttman's - Pkg - CLI package manager
2. mistifires - Puppy Package Manager (modified) v3.0

both have issues that I need to work out (probably specific to my system) but "after connecting to the Internet you can install firefox-esr using sc0ttman's package manager as follows:

Code: Select all

pkg --get libjsoncpp1
pkg --get firefox-esr
To see what pacakges are available you can use mistfire's package manager. Start with the command:

Code: Select all

ppm
**or alternativly it can be started via the standard gui ways.

In the jwm bottom panel menu (also available via right clicking on the desktop) you will also see gui versions of sc0ttman's package manager. I haven't really tested these but the search function isn't properly filleting the package list. According to sc0ttman this should work on a standard puppy.

JRB's portable browser installer

If you want a newer browser than is available via the package manager then you can use JRB's portable browser installer (available in the menu). It asks you which partition you want to install it on but I modified it so that you can install anywhere (see rufwoof's security concerns).


tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.iso

Networking

Originally, I only had fresbee installed and I decided to also install network_wizard, which seems to also install simple networking wizard. Frisbee is sufficient and I recommend using it. The menu is a bit cluttered with some other networking options. These are here because I wanted to experiment with some CLI networking tools. Just hide the ones from the menu that you don't want to use.

A minimal Philosophy?

The reason that I wanted to experiment with some CLI networking tools is that I'm interested in minimal systems. The current iso isn't that minimal 213mb but I think it's probably about 100mb smaller then the typical puppy equivalents (ie.g. dpup stretch or puduan ascii. This is probably mostly due to not including a browser. There are lots of stuff that I could remove but I both wanted a system that works well, and didn't give me any error reports due to missing files.

Some of said errors (I would get if I stripped out some non-essential packages) would be due to puppy doing things at start-up that aren't strictly essential. Others might be due to unnecessary library dependencies that are compiled into the library. In the first case we can rectify the error by modifying the puppy startup script and in the latter case we need to use different binaries for some libs (e.g. recompile). In the latter case I might rectify these errors by re replacing a lib with the tinycore version.

Why the name tiny_devaun?

The name tiny_devaun is for two reasons. The first is that it is somewhat minimal and I eventually plan to make it more minimal by pushing more things to optional sfs files. The second is that both libc6 and busybox is from tinycore. I also included some other random tinycore stuff just to see what it is but anything that I thought would interfer with the system (statup stuff and user related stuff) is not included.

The tinycore components are from the tinycore9 iso which uses a newer version of libc6 that both devaun ascii and debian stretch. I will think about how I might implement more tinycore components

Download

You can download the iso at:

tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.iso

Expect frequent new releases until I'm more happy with it.

Previous posts

Previous posts can be found in the "alternative build systems thread".

Immediate tests

My first order of business is to make sure that pkg is doing what it's supposed to (i.e. not re-installing anything that is already installed). After that I'll see if I can get either the gui's working better for sc0ttman's pkg and also test to see if mistfire's ppm is working properly. In the long run I'll probly just have sc0ttman's pkg manager but we'll see. :)
Last edited by s243a on Mon 07 Oct 2019, 01:24, edited 23 times in total.
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#2 Post by s243a »

Update (17 Aug 19)
-----
s243a wrote:New release to fix issues noted in previous post:

tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha11.4.iso
Testing:
1. Install firefox (dependencies are being instlled but need to make sure that nothign is re-installed.
2. Checked /tmp/xerrs.log (no obvious errors)
3. Also installed other packages that I'll include in a remaster.

**Testing done with a save folder on a USB drive. No other pmedia modes were tested.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 94#1034594
**Type "xwin" to start the desktop if it doesn't start.
-----
End Update
Last edited by s243a on Mon 07 Oct 2019, 01:18, edited 1 time in total.
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#3 Post by s243a »

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#4 Post by s243a »

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#5 Post by s243a »

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#6 Post by s243a »

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#7 Post by s243a »

The package managers that I'm using:
1. sc0tmann's pkg
2. mistfires ppm3

seem to depend on the symlink:
/initrd/pup_ro1

and there seems to be a bug in my ISO where this isn't being created properly in the initrd0/init script. I don't know if it was an issue with the woof-CE snapshot that I pulled or something that I did. However, in the short term I'm going to patch with a fix like follows:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
. /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE
SAVE_REL="$(echo $PUPSAVE | cut -d',' -f3)"
SAVE_PATH="/initrd/mnt/dev_save$SAVE_REL"

if [ -d "$SAVE_PATH" ] ; then
  if [ -d /initrd/pup_ro1 ]; then
     cp -arfv --remove-destination "$SAVE_PATH"
     rm -rf /initrd/pup_ro1
  elif [ -L /initrd/pup_ro1 ]; then
    rm -rf /initrd/pup_ro1
  fi
  if [ ! -L /initrd/pup_ro1 ]; then 
    ln -sv "$SAVE_PATH" /initrd/pup_ro1 #for after switch
  fi
fi
https://pastebin.com/0gLTFNdv

Maybe I"ll call this script when starting x. I'll test this sortly.

Eventually, of course a I'll both:
1. debug my /initrd/init script
2. remove the dependencies of said package managers on this symlink.

The reason for the later is that the symlink is for lagacy apps:

gyrog tells me that:
That symlink is there for old utilites that have /initrd/pup_ro1 hardcoded, rather than being coded the better way.
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... -504771021

More about this topic can be found in the thread:
Process Substitution & The pup initr0/init
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#8 Post by rufwoof »

Just to report - works for me.

Downloaded the iso. Created a hdd /tinypud folder where I have grub4dos already installed on that hdd. Used rox to click the iso and copied out the vmlinuz, initrd.gz and .sfs files (3 of them) over to that /tinypud folder

Updated the /menu.lst file on hdd to add a entry of ...

Code: Select all

title tinypud
find --set-root /menu.lst
kernel /tinypud/vmlinuz pfix=nox pmedia=atahd psubdir=/tinypud video=640x400
initrd /tinypud/initrd.gz
and booted that. Changed the root password (ran 'passwd'). I then ran 'xwin' as I'd included the pfix=nox so it booted to command line, and X started up ok. Ran through the firstrun setup (country etc.) and then ran through the Connect setup and frisbee wireless connected to my ssid ok.

Once network connected I exited back to cli (exit X). Tried ssh myuserid@tty.sdf.org .... and no ssh installed. Tried telnet blackflag.acid.org (a BBS) and that connected ok (but the default terminal isn't a good one for showing ansi art, so looks odd). Used pkgdialog and installed ssh, and tmux and that all installed/works fine (can now ssh into hashbang.sh, sdf.org ...etc.).
For me, that opens up email, irc, lynx (curses browser), reddit ...etc. So already pretty functional. X, well pretty much I only need that in order to run a gui browser (that opens up the likes of using google docs for office type stuff).

For me, if first run setup and frisbee net connect were cli/ncurses, then X and the rest could all be 'additionals'. But then that deviates quite a bit away from woof - so just saying.

Nice that mc is already included by default (ncurses file manager and text editor). I do have some template C code somewhere that creates a mc style cua (interface), drop down menus/windows etc. that I'll have to dig out and have a play with. What with the pkgdialog, tui based versions of first run setup and frisbee could enable X to be grouped with gui browser/others ... as a separate optional sfs - which would make tinypuduan even smaller :)

Thank s243a (and others). Great work.
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#9 Post by rufwoof »

Is a devX available?

Posting from TinyPuduan, but with no browser installed yet
(using lynx via ssh)
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#10 Post by s243a »

rufwoof wrote:Is a devX available?

Posting from TinyPuduan, but with no browser installed yet
(using lynx via ssh)
I haven't tried it yet but I suspect the one that Sailor Enceladus built should work:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109842

but I'll put building a devX on my todo list.
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#11 Post by rufwoof »

Thanks, I'll give that a go.

Under Fatdog I knocked out a very quick-n-dirty ncurses as per the attached image.

Thought in mind was to structure it somewhat like a Puppy desktop tray, but where instead of displaying the time/date for instance usually in a bottom panel far right, the 'panel' is at the top of screen and the far right choice fires up calcurse (or whatever) - that displays the date/time and caters for diary/appointments/todo. Ditto for others (sound, system activity ...etc.)

For the MENU first entry, I just casually bashed in some command/action choices, not the sort of order/choice you'd have, more just a case of it being a demo only.

The image is a full screen capture - so shows my fatdog tray as well. Primarily however its just the nurses window/program that would be viewed from cli/tui.

Aligning to be similar to mc (file manager and text editor) would keep things consistent.

As-is that 'demoapp' compiled to a 140K executable filesize.
Attachments
s.png
(40.85 KiB) Downloaded 968 times
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#12 Post by rufwoof »

s243a wrote:I haven't tried it yet but I suspect the one that Sailor Enceladus built should work:
Tried rox right click Install for that devx sfs, wouldn't load (pup_ro3 or something like that error). Installed squashfs-tools via pkgdialog and unsquashfs -f -d / ... the devx sfs i.e. extracted it to root and then grabbed a copy of syncterm source from github and tried making that ... worked to a degree, but then locked up. Looks like a libc issue (i.e. yours is a later version ???). So in short .. no luck.
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#13 Post by s243a »

rufwoof wrote:
s243a wrote:I haven't tried it yet but I suspect the one that Sailor Enceladus built should work:
Tried rox right click Install for that devx sfs, wouldn't load (pup_ro3 or something like that error). Installed squashfs-tools via pkgdialog and unsquashfs -f -d / ... the devx sfs i.e. extracted it to root and then grabbed a copy of syncterm source from github and tried making that ... worked to a degree, but then locked up. Looks like a libc issue (i.e. yours is a later version ???). So in short .. no luck.
That's correct. The libc version is newer than the standard devaun asci. Maybe we need differn't c header files. Sounds like I'll need to build a devx.
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#14 Post by wanderer »

hi s243a

just noticed your new thread
didnt see it at first up in cutting edge

just downloaded your new iso 11
now on wired internet
installed palemoon
posting from it now

looks and works great

great job

will follow along
thanks for all your work

wanderer

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#15 Post by rufwoof »

Spent a evening coding up that ncurses (in Fatdog) to look/feel like mc and it works quite nicely. Wrapped a shell script around it and I'm also using tilda terminal (for its drop down/hide F1 Quake like functionality). Clicking on menu choices adds a new tilda tab to the set with that program/action running in that tab.

Image
(clickable thumbnail)
Tilda tabs are the topmost in that image, the ncurses choices/menu is the next down from that.

I reboot with a clean (but configured) system each time I reboot (don't save, keep all data separate). Which means a clean browser also. One of those tabs is my urls, a simple text file - but where under tilda it auto highlights all urls so you can just mouse over and click a url in order to open it up in the defaultbrowser.

Why bother with just gui or just tui, when you can have both :) And with a simple F1 keypress the tui is hidden, to reveal just the gui desktop

Image
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#16 Post by s243a »

s243a wrote:The package managers that I'm using:
1. sc0tmann's pkg
2. mistfires ppm3

seem to depend on the symlink:
/initrd/pup_ro1

and there seems to be a bug in my ISO where this isn't being created properly in the initrd0/init script. I don't know if it was an issue with the woof-CE snapshot that I pulled or something that I did. However, in the short term I'm going to patch with a fix like follows:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
. /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE
SAVE_REL="$(echo $PUPSAVE | cut -d',' -f3)"
SAVE_PATH="/initrd/mnt/dev_save$SAVE_REL"

if [ -d "$SAVE_PATH" ] ; then
  if [ -d /initrd/pup_ro1 ]; then
     cp -arfv --remove-destination "$SAVE_PATH"
     rm -rf /initrd/pup_ro1
  elif [ -L /initrd/pup_ro1 ]; then
    rm -rf /initrd/pup_ro1
  fi
  if [ ! -L /initrd/pup_ro1 ]; then 
    ln -sv "$SAVE_PATH" /initrd/pup_ro1 #for after switch
  fi
fi
https://pastebin.com/0gLTFNdv

Maybe I"ll call this script when starting x. I'll test this sortly.

Eventually, of course a I'll both:
1. debug my /initrd/init script
2. remove the dependencies of said package managers on this symlink.

The reason for the later is that the symlink is for lagacy apps:

gyrog tells me that:
That symlink is there for old utilites that have /initrd/pup_ro1 hardcoded, rather than being coded the better way.
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... -504771021

More about this topic can be found in the thread:
Process Substitution & The pup initr0/init
After more thought I think the following is more what I want:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
. /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE
SAVE_REL="$(echo $PUPSAVE | cut -d',' -f3)"
SAVE_PATH="/initrd/mnt/dev_save$SAVE_REL"

if [ -d "$SAVE_PATH" ] ; then

  if [ -d /initrd/pup_ro1 ] && [ ! -L /initrd/pup_ro1 ]; then
     cp -arfv --remove-destination /initrd/pup_ro1 "$SAVE_PATH"
     rm -rf /initrd/pup_ro1  
     ln -sv "$SAVE_PATH" /initrd/pup_ro1 #for after switch
  fi
fi
I'm wondering if the missing symlink is due to not having the right version of aufs-tools. For some reason I have a mount.aufs binary that requires too new a version of libc. I'm not sure how I would have got this "too new" version because my libc is newer than the one in devaun ascii.

Anyway, full mount fails if mount.aufs is too new. Also "busybox mount" fails if we use tinycores version of busybox. Here's an example that fails from sc0ttman's pkg:

Code: Select all

busybox mount -t aufs -o remount,udba=reval unionfs / #remount with faster evaluation mode.
https://gitlab.com/sc0ttj/Pkg/blob/mast ... /pkg#L4918

the reason is that tinycore has separated the busybox applets into two parts. Those which only root can use are in /bin/busybox. Those in which some non-root users can use are in busybox.suid

I could create a wrapper script for busybox that calls the correct binary, although there would be a slight performance cost to do this.

Edit 1:
Here is more on this error:

Code: Select all


      #120102 install may have overwritten a symlink-to-dir...
      #tar defaults to not following symlinks, for both dirs and files, but i want to follow symlinks
      #for dirs but not for files. so, fix here... (note, dir entries in .files have / on end)
https://gitlab.com/sc0ttj/Pkg/blob/mast ... /pkg#L4820

Code: Select all

#120107 rerwin: need quotes around some paths in case of space chars. remove '--unlink-first' from tar (was introduced 120102, don't think necessary).
/woof-code/rootfs-skeleton/usr/local/petget/installpkg.sh#L26

Code: Select all

tar -x --strip=2 --directory=${DIRECTSAVEPATH}/ -f ${tarball} #120102. 120107 remove --unlink-first
/woof-code/rootfs-skeleton/usr/local/petget/installpkg.sh#L254
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#17 Post by s243a »

Related to the previous post:

Code: Select all

# set $DIRECTSAVEPATH (where we want to install pkgs)
if [ $PUPMODE -eq 3 -o $PUPMODE -eq 7 -o $PUPMODE -eq 13 ];then
  DIRECTSAVEPATH="/initrd${SAVE_LAYER}" #SAVE_LAYER is in /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE.
elif [ "$PUPMODE" = "2" ]; then
  DIRECTSAVEPATH=""
fi
https://gitlab.com/sc0ttj/Pkg/blob/mast ... n/pkg#L147

Code: Select all

          # some old types need this extra step
          if [ -f "${CURDIR}/${PKGNAME}.tar.$TAREXT" ];then
            cd "${CURDIR}/${PKGNAME}/" 1>/dev/null
            tar --absolute-names $tarops "./${PKGNAME}.tar.$TAREXT" ${DIRECTSAVEPATH}/ 2> $TMPDIR/$SELF-cp-errlog #260713
            sync
            rm -f  "./${PKGNAME}.tar.$TAREXT" 1>/dev/null
            cd - 1>/dev/null
          fi
https://gitlab.com/sc0ttj/Pkg/blob/mast ... /pkg#L4563


The following explimation sounds wrong to me:

The above tar command might delete the pup_ro1 symlink. For some reason this isn't a problem if the following mount statment works:

Code: Select all

busybox mount -t aufs -o remount,udba=reval unionfs / #remount with faster evaluation mode.
can also use the full version of mount instead if one has a working "mount.aufs".

However, if the mount fails, then tar extracts stuff to a new directory called pup_ro1 and the symlink is broken.

...but I think I"m looking in the right area

I just don't completly understand why the symlink breaks if mount fails.
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#18 Post by s243a »

I was thinking that if I write a wrapper script for busybox, that there might be the possibility of handling options not supported by busybox. The goal would be so that the wrapper script could handle these options well enough that coreutils wouldn't be required for sc0ttman's package manager "i.e. pkg".
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#19 Post by sc0ttman »

s243a wrote:I was thinking that if I write a wrapper script for busybox, that there might be the possibility of handling options not supported by busybox. The goal would be so that the wrapper script could handle these options well enough that coreutils wouldn't be required for sc0ttman's package manager "i.e. pkg".
You are clearly doing lots of work, so why not try some fixes for Pkg itself, to remove those deps? ..

It's surely less work than a lot of the other stuff you have been willing to get stuck into...

The quickest way may be to remove core utils after boot (manually delete/move stuff), replace with busybox, and keep running/fixing Pkg till it works again..

(Ideally where I can check the changes in a PR or at least a diff, and incorporate it into Pkg..)
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s243a
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#20 Post by s243a »

sc0ttman wrote:
s243a wrote:I was thinking that if I write a wrapper script for busybox, that there might be the possibility of handling options not supported by busybox. The goal would be so that the wrapper script could handle these options well enough that coreutils wouldn't be required for sc0ttman's package manager "i.e. pkg".
You are clearly doing lots of work, so why not try some fixes for Pkg itself, to remove those deps? ..

It's surely less work than a lot of the other stuff you have been willing to get stuck into...

The quickest way may be to remove core utils after boot (manually delete/move stuff), replace with busybox, and keep running/fixing Pkg till it works again..

(Ideally where I can check the changes in a PR or at least a diff, and incorporate it into Pkg..)
I'm not sure if this is an easy or hard thing to do but it's not the most critical thing that I need at the moment.

At the moment, I will be experimenting with integrating Mistire's ppm 3 with with pkg. I think that many of the changes in Mistfire's ppm3 have been incorporated into Woof-CE, so I might eventually get in better sync with the woof-CE ppm. For the moment, I"m more interested in Mistfire's version because (at this moment) I can't keep pace with all changes in woof-CE. Also, I'm interested in back compatibility and Mistire's ppm was built for older versions of puppy than the bleeding edge woof-CE code is likely built for.
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