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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Create Debian 9 (Stretch) minimal ISO similar to DebianDog
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3719

PostPosted: Wed 01 Nov 2017, 19:46    Post subject:  

I just run

# dpkg-reconfigure tzdata

but that may be systemd specific ???
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12976
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed 01 Nov 2017, 20:00    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:
I just run # dpkg-reconfigure tzdata

But which mode are you in? UTC or LOCAL?
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zagreb999

Joined: 11 Apr 2014
Posts: 558
Location: Yugoslavija

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 03:36    Post subject:  

WITH ALL RESPECT , FRED...

PLEASE, CAN YOU TEST
tzclock_3.0.6-1_i386.deb BEFORE
COMMENTING...
APSSOLUTELY IT IS
INCOMPARABLE WITH

PeasyClock
KIND REGARDS.
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jd7654

Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 04:57    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
...All I tried to mention is that manually editing /etc/adjtime to set to LOCAL may be not needed at all (although it does not harm of course), configuring your program the right way does it all from what I tested.


Are you in UTC zone? Only then it would not matter.

For the rest of us, there is a bit of complication in getting time correct in Dogs. Puppy is easy, if a bit messy with a bunch of time, zone and PSync utilities, but it works. Just set zone, and check/activate Internet time sync and all is good.

Dog and DebLive only include the Time Zone tool by default, but they are set up with different time Standard, which is part of the confusion.
DebDog comes with: LOCAL time standard, and default zone UTC
DebLive comes with: UTC time standard, and default zone UTC.

I always setup and fix the time/zone/standard whenever I setup Linux, whether it is Systemd, or Puppy, or whatever. So I've gone through this a lot. A sample fix for DebLive:

Current time around 10:46PM:
Code:
root@live:~# date
Wed Nov  1 22:46:14 UTC 2017
root@live:~# hwclock
2017-11-01 22:46:16.265059+0000


Change time zone to HST:
Code:
root@live:~# date
Wed Nov  1 12:48:02 HST 2017
root@live:~# hwclock
2017-11-01 12:48:04.479502-1000

System time and RTC time are both now wrong, -10 hours,

Edit time standard in /etc/adjtime to LOCAL:
Code:
root@live:~# date
Wed Nov  1 12:50:51 HST 2017
root@live:~# hwclock
2017-11-01 22:50:52.374192-1000

System time is still wrong, RTC is correct.

Fix system time to be same as RTC time:
Code:
root@live:~# hwclock --hctosys
root@live:~# date
Wed Nov  1 22:53:06 HST 2017
root@live:~# hwclock
2017-11-01 22:53:09.890005-1000

Time is now correct: time standard (localtime/Windows), time zone, system and hardware clocks.

Peasyclock takes care of the above time zone and time standard issues with a gui, but still leaves the last part of system time and rtc time out of sync. Also, fixes should be added to include back Etc/UTC in the zone selection list after first use, and have it read the /etc/adjtime value instead of only displaying local default.

And to make Dog automatically adjust to NTP server, can install NTP client package ntpdate. That would probably be a nice default package for DDog, DebLive and StretchDog to have. Antix also includes the small ntpdate instead of full ntp package.
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4289
Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 07:01    Post subject: PeasyClock test  

Hi All, did some further testing PeasyClock and did WITHOUT changing /etc/adjtime manually first (so it's set to UTC (as by default)
My time in the BIOS is set to localtime, at this point around 11:08, the time is synchronized, but it's set to utc time (/etc/timezone has Etc/UTC)
Code:
root@live:~# date
Thu Nov  2 11:08:04 UTC 2017
root@live:~# hwclock
2017-11-02 11:08:09.561478+0000


I will change to localtime now by setting up my timezone
Next I run peasyclock, (time shows 11:09, changed timezone to Europe/Amsterdam and click "Set" and then "Refresh"
Now the time showed in peasyclock is one hour later 12:09 and date and hwclock are around the same:
Code:
root@live:~# date
Thu Nov  2 12:10:08 CET 2017
root@live:~# hwclock
2017-11-02 12:10:15.233405+0100


Then I changed the time in peasyclock to the correct time (one hour back) and clicked "Set", now current time is correct but the hardware clock is not synchronized with the current time:

Code:
root@live:~# date
Thu Nov  2 11:11:04 CET 2017
root@live:~# hwclock
2017-11-02 12:11:09.295938+0100


Next I clicked "Set" next to "Update the hardware clock" ('Local time' is checked)
And the result is exactly as it should be IMO
Code:
root@live:~# date
Thu Nov  2 11:12:07 CET 2017
root@live:~# hwclock
2017-11-02 11:12:13.420914+0100


Also the file /etc/adjtime did change to LOCAL (previous step did that, I think):
Code:
root@live:~# cat /etc/adjtime
0.000000 1509617396 0.000000
1509617396
LOCAL


After reboot all was still fine

Fred

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12976
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 07:18    Post subject:  

Hi Fred:

Here (I think) is a source of confusion. You would expect that the "hwclock" command would simply show you what's currently in the BIOS clock.

But it doesn't always. Sometimes, it shows the BIOS time adjusted according to some time zone.

The only real test is to reboot and check the BIOS. Then let Stretch start.

In my tests, that works correctly without doing a PeasyClock hwclock update.

Here's where it gets really confusing. If you take your laptop to a different time zone and reset the zone, it looks like Stretch auto-changes the BIOS clock to match the new zone.

Windows won't like that because it will now have a mismatch between its local time and zone.
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4289
Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 07:53    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
The only real test is to reboot and check the BIOS. Then let Stretch start.

In my tests, that works correctly without doing a PeasyClock hwclock update.


When I do NOT manually set /etc/adjtime to LOCAL and do NOT update the hardware clock in Peasyclock, the BIOS time is wrong after reboot (one hour earlier than local time)
But if I do as I wrote in my previous post, the time in the BIOS is correct local time.
Or am I now confused about what could be the confusion ? Smile

Fred

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12976
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 08:36    Post subject:  

I am assuming that your original BIOS time was correct - your local time like Windows would have it.

Are you saying that Stretch immediately changed that on its own?

In my tests, if you start with a clean install where the initial zone is Etc/UTC, that does NOT happen.
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4289
Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 09:22    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
I am assuming that your original BIOS time was correct - your local time like Windows would have it.


Yes it was.

Quote:
Are you saying that Stretch immediately changed that on its own?


Yes, I thought that's normal, what --systohc does.
To be sure I just tested using different timezones and also with UTC, and every time the BIOS time changed.

Quote:
In my tests, if you start with a clean install where the initial zone is Etc/UTC, that does NOT happen


So, after configure with peasyclock you have to go in the BIOS to change the time ?
Maybe it's machine dependent (I'm on a 10 years old HP compaq 6710b)

Fred

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12976
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 09:42    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
Yes, I thought that's normal, what --systohc does.

But who is running that command? If the BIOS clock is already correct, there is no reason to run it.

Quote:
To be sure I just tested using different timezones and also with UTC, and every time the BIOS time changed.

That was my observation above. If you are in LOCAL mode and change zones, Stretch WILL change the BIOS clock. I guess it thinks that it is doing you a favour.

Quote:
So, after configure with peasyclock you have to go in the BIOS to change the time ?

On the initial setup, I don't have to. The BIOS clock is still correct. Nothing has changed it.

I suspect that the result of this discussion will be "find whatever works for you and stick with it". But I think that PeasyClock covers all the possibilities.

Or stay in UTC mode and all the problems go away.
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4289
Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 10:08    Post subject:  

Quote:
fredx181 wrote:
Yes, I thought that's normal, what --systohc does.
rcrsn51 wrote:
But who is running that command? If the BIOS clock is already correct, there is no reason to run it.


As you know, peasyclock runs it when updating hardware clock but there's also initscript that runs at boot and shutdown '/etc/init.d/hwclock.sh'
Btw, as it is by default Etc/UTC and having the BIOS time set to localtime works OK for me, but it's better to set your timezone to avoid little problems e.g sending mail to someone and the "sendtime" doesn't correspond with the receiver's time.(also I read about similar problems when using Twitter)

Quote:
I suspect that the result of this discussion will be "find whatever works for you and stick with it". But I think that PeasyClock covers all the possibilities.


Yes, anyway for me Peasyclock is really an improvement compared to the build in "Setup Timezone" menu entry (in most 'Dogs')

Fred

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12976
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 11:21    Post subject:  

I quit. Wink If Stretch is going to update the hardware clock through hwclock.sh at the end of a session, then doing it through PeasyClock should be irrelevant.

This is why clock management in Puppy appears to make more sense. It isn't doing any of that stuff behind the scenes.

In any case, I posted v1.1 above. It also updates the file /etc/timezone, in case that's important.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1877
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 15:14    Post subject:  

I don't use a timeserver normally, but I use the typical series of clock-setting commands that begin with checking BIOS clock is okay, sets the timezone, and end with clock set to local time correctly. That works fine unless some other program or OS incorrectly (or OS init/shutdown script?) sets or resets the BIOS clock inappropriately.

Of course, if any playing with the time or timezone happens whilst OS is running and anythin in the OS ever then calls up hwclock.sh and changes the BIOS time then all is mucked up. In my opinion nothing in the OS should ever automatically change the BIOS time except as a Menu choice to adjust the time or you are asking for trouble. Anway, if hwclock.sh is being called during system scripts and if that does reset BIOS clock then I'll be hunting these system scripts down and taking that out on my own system at least cos I certainly don't need or want that.

wiak
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4289
Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 15:33    Post subject:  

wiak wrote:
I don't use a timeserver normally, but I use the typical series of clock-setting commands that begin with checking BIOS clock is okay, sets the timezone, and end with clock set to local time correctly. That works fine unless some other program or OS incorrectly (or OS init/shutdown script?) sets or resets the BIOS clock inappropriately.

Of course, if any playing with the time or timezone happens whilst OS is running and anythin in the OS ever then calls up hwclock.sh and changes the BIOS time then all is mucked up. In my opinion nothing in the OS should ever automatically change the BIOS time except as a Menu choice to adjust the time or you are asking for trouble. Anway, if hwclock.sh is being called during system scripts and if that does reset BIOS clock then I'll be hunting these system scripts down and taking that out on my own system at least cos I certainly don't need or want that.

wiak


I can't see what's the problem. The BIOS time gets changed only if you configure the timezone and/or choose to use LOCAL or UTC, but anyway for info, to disable the initscript hwclock.sh:
Code:
insserv -r hwclock.sh


EDIT: Another way (probably better) to disable hardware clock access, see here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=973093#973093

Fred

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Last edited by fredx181 on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 16:41; edited 1 time in total
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1479

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov 2017, 15:37    Post subject:  

Sorry, I got busy and didn't get a chance to do any testing on the time issue.

I will try to get to it tonight sometime Sad . . .
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