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The debootstrapDebian within Puppy project
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anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 968

PostPosted: Sat 05 Aug 2017, 09:37    Post subject:  

Can you post a build log, like the ones in this post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=960642#960642
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2048
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 05 Aug 2017, 10:28    Post subject: How is this different from UnderDog?  

Hi,

Just wanted to note that several years ago Barry K built into some Puppies the ability to run any already installed distro from within those Puppies. It was called Underdog. Then for a while, he didn't include that capability but a year or so ago, IIRC, it was included in at least one of the Quirkies.

My recollection is that there were a couple of posts on the 'pup n' go' thread, Pup n go is 'going-nuts' exploration of a bare-bones Puppy 4.x, whose ISO was 64 Mbs or less.

I never explored the UnderDog. And until a couple of days ago thought 'chroot' was a cigar. So I don't know what relationship, if any, the two mechanism might have to each other. Just figured anyone with the necessary expertise might benefit by examining paths already trodden if the mechanisms are the same.

I'm a strong believer that it doesn't make much sense to try and re-invent the wheel from scratch; and that the reason history repeats itself is that we don't take the time to learn it and profit from the mistakes and successes others have made.

mikesLr
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 375
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 05 Aug 2017, 21:03    Post subject:  

anikin wrote:
Can you post a build log, like the ones in this post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=960642#960642


Why?!!!

A debootstrap build log always looks much the same. You see the build log flash before your eyes as it builds the system in the terminal anyway. I'm not claiming to be the first to use debootstrap!!! It's been around for decades!

For example:

http://xpt.sourceforge.net/techdocs/nix/chroot/chrt01-ChrootInfo/

http://shallowsky.com/blog/linux/install/debootstrap.html

This one from 2006!: https://debian-administration.org/article/426/Installing_new_Debian_systems_with_debootstrap

Been around since Debian-installer released in 2005 and maybe earlier. Looks like debootstrap around before even Puppy invented actually so I feel no-one here needs to worry about claiming 'ownership' of using debootstrap! Wink

All I have done is recognised (and no doubt not the first to do so there either) that it works in a standard Puppy since doesn't depend on dpkg/apt. That's all really - so just started this thread to list the steps to make it work (and include a dotpet of debootstrap itself). That's all! No big deal and not hopefully stepping on anyone else's toes!

EDIT: So basically, I provided alternative answer to question I see asked in that thread anikin links. (As I showed, debootstrap can run from Puppies - doesn't need apt/dpkg - indeed, it was exactly because the definitely fantastic Dog-man Fred thought that debootstrap required dpkg that I came up with this "idea". It's certainly a small subtlety, but may not have been noticed/realised in Puppy forum, but could be very useful alternative Debian-in-Puppy capability I feel):

mikeslr wrote:

And, lastly, can I assume that these "recipes" can be run from "DebianDogs/XenialDogs"; i.e. a "Full Blown" debian/Ubuntu or other OS being unnecessary. [But not from the majority of Puppies which lack the apt command].


I might upload a script that sets the whole thing up in Puppy for those who don't like typing command-lines. May or may not, but main thing is to inspire others more knowledgable than me to add to it and maybe build a tiny Puppy that relies on a debootstrap-built-Debian or Ubuntu for providing access to their repositories - just an alternative Debian in Puppy build methodology.

I'll check out Underdog sometime, thanks - never heard of it - wouldn't be surprised if the same since, as I say, chroot and debootstrap have both been around for decades (even if many of us have been unaware of them). EDIT: UnderDog seems to be about having another Linux system as bottom layer of a unionfs such that the files in that are also seen in top layer along with Puppy - seems to be a bit different from a chroot/debootstrap Debian system: http://barryk.org/puppylinux/development/howpuppyworks.html I don't know much about unionfs so can't really comment further about that.

There is certainly no wheel being re-invented here - I'm just drawing attention to fact chroot/debootstrap will work on Puppy as is (and made a simple debootstrap dotpet for that purpose). If no use to you, just ignore the post is easy! Smile

wiak
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 375
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 01:34    Post subject:  

EDIT 6Aug2017: Got Debian Stretch built and chroot running under Puppy Racy 5.5 (Racy kernel 3.0.66) now. I'll post image soon. I'll also try Puppy 4.3.1 since old kernel, but I have my doubts...! Note well that even the debootstrapDebianStretch build part was done under Racy (I thought it might be too old but it wasn't...). To get a clean debootstrap build with Racy or Puppy Linux 4.3.1 for that matter, you need to first remove /lib from their LD_LIBRARY_PATH; no such issues with the other host distributions I tried (Slacko32, Slacko64, current 32bit tinycore linux).
debootstrapDebianStretchInPuppyRacy.png
 Description   Debian Stretch with Synaptics running in Puppy Racy 5.5
 Filesize   132.36 KB
 Viewed   437 Time(s)

debootstrapDebianStretchInPuppyRacy.png


Last edited by wiak on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 06:45; edited 2 times in total
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anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 968

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 03:05    Post subject:  

wiak wrote:
anikin wrote:
Can you post a build log, like the ones in this post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=960642#960642

Why?!!! ...

Posting code/logs is standard operating procedure on technical forums. Can you show us how the debootstrap command goes under Puppy?

Thank you.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 375
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 03:43    Post subject:  

You already know how such build log messages go: you get a list of everything being downloaded, extracted and installed:

Code:
debootstrap --arch=i386 --variant=minbase stretch chroot http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/
I: Retrieving InRelease
I: Retrieving Release
I: Retrieving Release.gpg
I: Checking Release signature
I: Valid Release signature (key id


etc etc etc

And, all going well, which it did..., ends with final message:

Code:
I: Base system installed successfully.


If you get end error messages you should consult the log inside debootstrap folder of chroot and work out from that what went wrong. That's as much standard procedure I give you since you already know it and I'm too busy doing actual testing at the moment - run your own tests and provide success/failure results with Puppy distributions would be better contribution...

wiak
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anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 968

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 04:41    Post subject:  

Can you copy/paste the output in *full* as an attachment?
No speeches, no comments, no ifs/buts - just an output from *your* terminal.
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 2627
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 05:00    Post subject:  

Hi all,

Although I didn't test on a Puppy here's a tip:
Once you have set up debootstrap and installed some programs already (by e.g. using apt-get) you can make some scripts to run different applications
For example if synaptic is installed already, create script synaptic.sh and run from the same directory where the chroot directory is located:
(when synaptic has stopped running, exiting from chroot and the umount commands will be done automatically)

Code:
#!/bin/bash
# synaptic.sh, run synaptic in chroot and exit

mount --bind /proc chroot/proc
mount --bind /tmp chroot/tmp
mount --bind /dev chroot/dev
mount --bind /sys chroot/sys
mount -t devpts devpts chroot/dev/pts
cp /etc/resolv.conf chroot/etc/resolv.conf

cat << EOF | chroot chroot
export LC_ALL=C

##### start doing stuff here #####
synaptic # run program, can be any, if installed in chroot
# do some more
##### end of doing stuff #####

EOF

umount chroot/tmp
umount chroot/proc
umount chroot/dev/pts
umount chroot/dev
umount chroot/sys



EDIT: Added mounting and (at the end) unmounting chroot/tmp to above example
Could be required, see next post from wiak

Fred

Last edited by fredx181 on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 06:34; edited 1 time in total
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 375
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 05:30    Post subject:  

@anikin: No. You already posted a stretch debootstrap log using minbase (which defines what the log shows as installed), so the successful log is the same as that one. Just read your own log. Also, I have moved on and working on other debootstrap attempts on different Pups so the previous logs are no longer available (but read the one you have).

@fred: Thanks for the tip Fred. I actually installed synaptics using apt-get install, but your script makes it easy to run indeed! Smile

I currently have Debian Jessie running under Puppy Linux 4.3.1, but having trouble with DISPLAY :0.0 not working with X apps I've installed in Jessie. There is no .Xauthority file in Pup 4.3.1 and even the dangerous xhost + doesn't do the trick. It's a bit odd - but its a long time since I played with X (used to mainly use ssh -X for that kind of thing). Anyway, main thing is Jessie does work under Puppy 4.3.1 - think kernel said was too old for stretch (but maybe I made an installation mistake - I'll try again with that sometime - doubt I'll bother puzzling out the X DISPLAY issue since have no plans to use Pup 4.3.1 anyway!).

AH.... I just solved the issue. I needed:

Code:
mount --bind /tmp chroot/tmp


That shared the relevant X lock files and synaptics and leafpad in the Debian Jessie now display fine on the Puppy Linux 4.3.1 X display...

Note that I haven't managed to get Debian Jessie or Stretch to debootstrap build under Puppy Linux 4.3.1 (it hangs part way through so doensn't even get as far as generating an error log). I have tried a Stretch created in Slacko32 on Pup431 but trying to chroot into it said kernel too old...

Hope all these results are useful to someone and save them some many hours of trying. Any problems or successes you have, please let me know.

wiak
debootstrapDebianWheezyUnderPuppyLinux431.png
 Description   Debian Wheezy running under Puppy Linux 4.3.1
 Filesize   219.97 KB
 Viewed   319 Time(s)

debootstrapDebianWheezyUnderPuppyLinux431.png


Last edited by wiak on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 06:33; edited 1 time in total
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anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 968

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 06:06    Post subject:  

wiak wrote:
@anikin: No. You already posted a stretch debootstrap log using minbase (which defines what the log shows as installed), so the successful log is the same as that one. Just read your own log. Also, I have moved on and working on other debootstrap attempts on different Pups so the previous logs are no longer available (but read the one you have). . .

For the second straight day, you're continuing to dodge my request to post a build log . . . because, you do not have a *clean*, *error-free* log.

Here's the thing: debootstrap, with some caveats, will run from any Linux distro, including Puppy. This so called *project* is an embarrassment, a demonstration of utter ignorance, absurdity and trivialization of the concept of debootstrap.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 375
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 06:24    Post subject:  

anikin

All the displayed examples built error free, despite your apparent 'doubts'. There is no chroot/debootstrap/debootstrap.log if there are no errors in the build as far as I noticed (though since it was error free I didn't really care to look). I am not about to build yet another debootstrap Debian Stretch just to supply you with yet another error-free log.

Perhaps you are having a problem with a build under some Puppy version but don't like to admit it. The only issue I have had (documented in the first post) is with Racy and Puppy Linux 4.3.1 where in order to get a clean build I had to first remove /lib: from their LD_LIBRARY_PATH; I hope that makes sense to you and sorts out your own issues.

If you (or anyone else) has any trouble with your own Puppy-based debootstrap builds then you should reveal the errors you are getting and perhaps I can help you. Otherwise move on please.

If you were contributing useful scripts such as Fred does, that would be great. It could become a very useful project in that case despite your scorn. I do realise you have commented on debootstrap earlier - nothing new in itself as I've said - it has been around since at least 2006 if not earlier, but no-one that I can find on any posts on this forum has been showing it used under Puppy (with most seeming to think it needed dpkg). As I said, if you don't like the thread, for any reason, no-one is forcing your to read it or use any of the information in it - frankly, I would now rather you went away and worked on your own things...

Note Fred that I have linked to your script suggestion in the first post of the thread, thanks.

wiak

Last edited by wiak on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 17:08; edited 1 time in total
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 375
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 06:51    Post subject:  

Please note the LD_LIBRARY_PATH debootstrap build issue I document in the first post (and indeed in the post immediately above this one).

Hope that helps someone or other... If you have the issue but don't know how to modify your LD_LIBRARY_PATH please let me know and I'll so my best to explain. But the issue doesn't happen with Slacko64 or current tiny core linux anyway.

wiak

Last edited by wiak on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 17:07; edited 1 time in total
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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 3033
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 07:13    Post subject:  

Hi wiak

Tried your runes on my Slackware Current based system after loading the pet....

Got a couple of warnings from step 3. debootstrap:
Code:
W: Failure trying to run: chroot /mnt/sda4/debian-mklive-stretch/stretch/chroot dpkg --force-depends --install /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.24-11+deb9u1_i386.deb
W: See /mnt/sda4/debian-mklive-stretch/stretch/chroot/debootstrap/debootstrap.log for details (possibly the package /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.24-11+deb9u1_i386.deb is at fault)


and then at step 7. discovered that there was no apt-get in the system....

debootstrp.log with false .gz is attached....

Do I need devx loaded?

I note you say
Quote:
Note that to get a clean build under Racy (or Puppy Linux 4.3.1 for that matter, you must first remove /lib from the LD_LIBRARY_PATH - no such complicated measure is needed for Slacko32, Slacko64 or tiny core linux).
but don't see the step to do this removal....

Thanks
peebee
debootstrap.log.gz
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Filename  debootstrap.log.gz 
Filesize  4.13 KB 
Downloaded  24 Time(s) 

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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 375
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 08:55    Post subject:  

Hi Peebee,

EDIT: You don't need apt/dpkg at all on your Slackware system, that will be installed on the chroot Debian system and used thereafter automatically as things proceed.

Looking at your error log, it does appear you have the /lib in LD_LIBRARY_PATH issue. Could you tell me a few other things:

1. When you say you ran debootstrap on your Slackware Current system, what exactly do you mean. Is that a Slacko Pup or an actual Slackware? I certainly didn't have any issues on the Puppy Slacko64 ver 6.3.2 system I first used.

2. I presume you entered the debootstrap line in a terminal (with the chroot subdirectory just under that working directory? Also, I presume there were a couple of build error messages after debootstrap finished downloading and extracting what it could (something about libc6?). If so that would also confirm the issue on your system might be the /lib in LD_LIBRARY_PATH issue.

My advice is to wipe the chroot directory and start again. Assuming like in the steps I gave, which had stretch dir with a chroot dir inside that and you have cd into stretch and opened a terminal there for commands:

Just prior to running the debootstrap --arch=i386 --variant=minbase stretch chroot http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ command, do the following in your terminal:

Code:
echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH


from the output you will probably see /lib as one of the reported library path entries. You don't want that before running the debootstrap command. So in the terminal enter:

Code:
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=the_path_you_just_saw_reported_but_without_/lib:_included


Then enter the big debootstrap build command and hopefully all will now go well...

Hope that makes sense. It's hard for me to explain the mod to LD_LIBRARY_PATH but basically the /lib: is likely at the front of that reported PATH and you want the rest but not that bit!

Let me know how it goes!

wiak
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 375
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2017, 18:22    Post subject:  

Just for a change used debootstrap instructions of first post to make a Ubuntu Xenial Xerus 64-bit install on my Puppy Slacko64 ver 6.3.2 system.

The only difference to the first post steps is that for step 3 I used command:

Code:
debootstrap --arch=amd64 --variant=minbase xenial chroot http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/


Once I chroot chroot into that, I did:
Code:
apt-get update
apt-get install nano
cd /etc/apt
nano sources.list


nano being a commandline text editor.

/etc/apt/sources.list at that stage only contained the entry:

Code:
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial main


so I appended the following two other repositories to the end of that file:

Code:
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial universe
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial multiverse


That's because I wanted to install 'synaptic' graphical package manager and that isn't in main repository any more (it's in 'universe').

So I then did:

Code:
apt-get update && apt-get install synaptic


which, albeit big, installed nicely...

and finally, I started that running in the background with:

Code:
synaptic &


and took the screenshot below. I don't know why I've bothered to include a log of the successful installation - only thing it shows really, apart from packages, is "I: Base system installed successfully." Smile Different if there had a been errors, then a build error log helps diagnose the issue of course... there are no errors...
UbuntuXenialRunningUnderSlacko64.png
 Description   Ubuntu Xenial 64bit running under Puppy Slacko64
 Filesize   96.96 KB
 Viewed   173 Time(s)

UbuntuXenialRunningUnderSlacko64.png


Last edited by wiak on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 18:46; edited 3 times in total
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