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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Many requests for compiler
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Guest
Guest


PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 15:01    Post subject:  Many requests for compiler  

But not one bite for a request for testers


Go figure
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EarlSmith

Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 197
Location: Chelsea, Alabama, USA

PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 18:06    Post subject:  

It may be that some of us who are not programmers think they could start learning some programming if all the tools we needed was in one place. For a non-programmer, it is really confusing. I remember using a compiler in a Basic program in dos in the early 90s. To me that was understandable, but Linux is a whole big confusing really different and new thing. Most of the searches on the internet about Linux programming is old and I just don't know what still applies, or what would apply to Puppy. If everything was in one place in Puppy, it might make it easier to not only learn but make it easier for you guys to teach us.
When you guys talk about C, C++, TCL/TK ??, Pearl, PHP, now Lobster is into XUL and ASQ, using vector Linux to develop things for Puppy. Well, can you see what I mean. I guess I expect Puppy can be all things to most people. By starting out small and being able to customize, Puppy could become the universal base Linux!
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Rich

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 278
Location: Middlesbrough - UK

PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 18:08    Post subject:  

I have no problem testing anything for anyone.........providing my system has the capability and/or necessary hardware. ( and it's a 56k friendly download ! ) Cool
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11031
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 19:26    Post subject:  

Rich wrote:
I have no problem testing anything for anyone.........providing my system has the capability and/or necessary hardware. ( and it's a 56k friendly download ! ) Cool
That's where I thought a fat development Puppy on a server capable of some sort of remote connection (I think it's called ssh or virtual desktop or something) would be useful. It wouldn't be a good idea to let just anyone use it, but a certain number of people who could be trusted could use it to develop and test applications for Puppy. It couldn't test for hardware and configuration compatibility but it seems to me that, by providing a standard, common "Integrated Development Environment," it would go a long way toward speeding the development of Puppy and insuring that certain standards are kept, for instance in documentation and interfacing and interoperability of programs. And, Rich, since it wouldn't require large downloads and uploads for testing, you could use it with your dialup connection.
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Guest
Guest


PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 23:09    Post subject:  

Linux is Linux and C is always will be C.

The package I put together has enough tools to compile a kernel and many simple programs.......Basically enough to learn C programming.

Admittedly I haven't put in all the libraries puppy requires...I'm waiting on a list so I can include them.

Yes it is a rather large download 55MB but it also includes a full version of perl. The way I have it designed is that you just loop mount the file, update the path statement and away you go...If you want to run perl scripts a symlink in /usr/bin poitning to /opt/tools/bin/perl will let you run scripts.

As for an IDE.....I liked RHIDE but couldn't fathom out the seg faults it would cause...the reason I liked it was because it was very similar to the Boralnd IDE's.Tho I may look into motor as used in Vector Linux
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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 23:38    Post subject:  

Going back to the original post.

Aren't we all testers until the DotPup hits the index?

I thought that testing the DotPups was the purpose of the DotPup thread.

I hope people don't assume that those are the 'final' versions.

Or am I the only one that assumes that the DotPups in the Forum are for feedback?
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Sun 10 Jul 2005, 23:40    Post subject: Puppy Programming  

Programming is very time intensive.

There is a great difference between different programming languages available for Puppy. I am a klutz level programmer. It does not come naturally to me but I like to dive in and have a look. When it comes to real work, it is 99% fun-grind.

The most useful language (as used extensively by Barry) is Bash scripting. You can not go wrong with this. The rute guide will help with this.
http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/book/
Bash is nothing more than batch programming in DOS (but it allows far greater capacity). The wizards in Puppy are controlled from Bash. They use or control little C programs (Bash can of course call any program in Puppy) and this is the advantage of Bash, By taking simple programs and running them in sequence or if conditions are met you can do very powerful things.

TCL/TK is another script based language. It is suitable for anyone to learn and develop programs. The advantage over Bash; more GUI components. If you have compiled Basic, learning and using Tcl will be simple.

XUL is another script language (these are the future) It is very well documented. The tutorials are first rate and it is very up to date. The programs will not run in Opera or MS Explorer but the addons being written in XUL are coming so quick and fast that these closed source browsers may have to adopt XUL. XUL is designed to run in Firefox and Mozilla. If you want to do something cutting edge and easy for Puppy, I would start here.

You should only consider C, C++ and TinyCC if you intend to program professionally and dedicate every waking moment to coding - and if you have two years to spare. HOWEVER hacking existing code might attract your interest or finding and compiling code for Puppy is open to anyone. Do not think because C is universally used that it is a good language. Everyone used to smoke. Some habits die hard.

Pearl and PHP are specialised server languages. For example this forum is written in PhP and on John's Server computer space, HTML web pages are generated by the code to input (this test for example) store it on the server and then generate web pages with it included. Specialised.

What about Gambas? Gambas is a compiled Basic. You can download Gambas as a Pupget and be producing useful code in a few weeks (I would join their forum) In may ways the Gambas project is like Puppy in its emotional appeal.

If all of this is too much you should learn to develop ASQ.
Puppy is the environment we are using but ASQ is not for programmers (not yet anyway) Many have expressed interest in starting to write ASQ but only when we know what non-programmers require will we even think about starting.

Smile

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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11031
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 11 Jul 2005, 00:02    Post subject:  

Thanks for your reply, blade.

I used the general concept of IDE loosely, and combined it with the idea of a shared server, into a server IDE with a wish-list of all the tools that might come in handy for developing Puppy, connected to the internet so that people who know what they are doing can log on from remote locations to develop and test Puppy mods and applications on the IDE server. Seems to me that a dial-up connection would be sufficient.

What software it would incorporate and how it would be configured I don't know. Any suggestions?

I have a computer that I don't use for anything important, and a cable internet connection (dynamic address, 4 Mb/s down, 0.4 Mb/s up.) Would that be sufficient to try the idea out? I'd have to be walked through every stage, from preparing the computer for the installation of the development software, to installing and configuring the server software.

One possible shortcut: a preconfigured, stripped-down, remote server version of Puppy could be made up which I could download, burn as bootable and run from CD.
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EarlSmith

Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 197
Location: Chelsea, Alabama, USA

PostPosted: Mon 11 Jul 2005, 02:04    Post subject:  

Lobster, I downloaded the rute guide...I know it will be helpfull.
I checked out the ASQ website and find it very interesting except you did not mention Python. Is Python not for Puppy? Why? It seemed more interesting than the ones you mentioned above. Anyway I downloaded the book and will check it out.
This statement I had a problem with:
Quote:
If all of this is too much you should learn to develop ASQ.
Puppy is the environment we are using but ASQ is not for programmers (not yet anyway) Many have expressed interest in starting to write ASQ but only when we know what non-programmers require will we even think about starting.

Can you expand on this a little? Didn't make a lot of sense to me.
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Guest
Guest


PostPosted: Mon 11 Jul 2005, 06:37    Post subject:  

I must be weird

I found assembly the easiest....spec in a win32 enviroment, even had success at a vxd working with an interrupt on the parallel port...Damn I even programed a Z80 system I breadboarded together via 16 switches for the address bus, 8 for the data and one each to write to an address and increment or decrement to address bus........Man I love converting mnemonics to binary

C next tho not as fluent.

A smattering of shell scripting

As for the rest......Confuses the suffing outta me
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11031
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 11 Jul 2005, 10:05    Post subject:  

rarsa wrote:
Going back to the original post.

Aren't we all testers until the DotPup hits the index?

I thought that testing the DotPups was the purpose of the DotPup thread.

I hope people don't assume that those are the 'final' versions.

Or am I the only one that assumes that the DotPups in the Forum are for feedback?
That's what I thought the DotPup thread was for. GuestToo just started putting his DotPups in one long thread. I assumed it was so people would help him work the bugs out. (Surely he didn't think they would all be perfect right off the bat? Smile) But, there's not much feedback that I can use to tell when a DotPup is ready for the index. How should I decide that?

Any thoughts? Maybe I could split the long DotPup thread into individual Dotpups, each with a poll attached for people to vote when they thought it was ready for prime time.
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Jul 2005, 11:40    Post subject:  

Quote:
Lobster, I downloaded the rute guide...I know it will be helpful.


yep it is excellent.


Quote:
I checked out the ASQ website and find it very interesting except you did not mention Python. Is Python not for Puppy? Why? It seemed more interesting than the ones you mentioned above. Anyway I downloaded the book and will check it out.


There is a link for programming virgins to this wiki page from ASQ
http://peace.wikicities.com/wiki/Python

ASQ is not a conventional programming language. Most languages start from what can be done. We start with what we want to do. If things on the ASQ wiki seem unclear come back in a week or so, when it will have been updated. Also ASQ is not a part of Puppy until we have a programming language that can be accessed and run from a browser . . .

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