Fatdog64-720 and 721 Final [11 Jan 2018]

[slowride]

Hokay, I made it over here from the "beginners" board...

Here's where we are: (BIOS MB, aint no EFI in this camp. ) 1TB WD, = /dev/sda

/dev/sda1 "where linux was planned"
#2 for M$ (if reduced to that)
#3 STORAGE (that one matters)
#4 -- 18 gigs of SWAP (the box will take 16 why not be ready if I find the RAM?)

"Syslinux" is where GRUB2 was, and it can't find ldlynux.c32 (as best I could copy from the screen) -- rather "drag y'all down through there" of the misadventures which resulted in that -- I did read the docs and the red letters... Still patheticly impaired (decades of Pavlov), I found the 2nd icon from LH, there in the control panel "Install FatDog" --

THE USER MADE AN ERROR.

Further Foo, or Bar, shall be avoided.

===================
Yeah, it really is Autism. I cope better some days than others, key thing, that's MY JOB. If skills need adjustment, let me know. Expect gratitude.
That being said, can I just drop the fronts? The more purfume added, the more evident the pig...
===================

Before I exhaust all patiences: I'm firmly committed to open mindedly HEARING what YOU can convey. I'm deferring any conclusions, much less decisions or actions -- I don't "Have to" put FatDog on /dev/sda1

it might be easier for everybody to just load the recovered .iso (I'm open to even that, but would prefer leaving it a "last option")

To be so rude as NOT have done my best to wrap my little crayon-level brain around - WOW what have you DONE? that's evident in the Manuals -- To go bugging the authors -- without at least trying to retain the information, that's outside my ability.

... Any questions are efforts to understand, not obstinance.

I DID READ the red letters that said "unsupported" ... Followed by several options of how Installation could be accomplished. Then clarified WhiCH (5.2.something ) version the official support ceased...

Dont see any "accidental" omissions, or "forgot to delete" inclusions anyplace in that manual.

The inclusion of the options indicates they still exist, and are still viable and fully functional --- Am I anyplace close if that's something like in the US, an Automotic Transmission (Essentially, a slush box) is "Standard Factory Equipment" on all but heavy duty trucks... Can only pay extra for a "special option" only available in "special cars" Even the same "fossil-lady" spanking CLEAN record, ins. simple liability for a paid in full vehicle, cost difference of "Manual" vs. "Slush Box" is significantly higher, even though the slush-box equipped car is somewhat more powerful/faster (which should , result in greater potential for injurious accident? The difficulty of finding parts, and dwindling scarcity of shops equipped much less staffed to maintain what's a safer - in skilled hands - and BETTER transmission there's that too )

You can PM the response if approprate -- I can easily percieve WHY it'd be exhaustively impossible to support "full install" ? (simply too outnumbered by folks like me that mess up)

This begs the question, if based on what YOU tell me, should I consider using the "officially supported version" if Hard Drive Install [n]eeds[/i] to happen in order to best support my application?

The FLEXIBILITY that's glaringly evident in the design of this, am I any place close to guessing correctly?

I don't sense this as a "by-product". Is Flexible the goal?

Also, I can easily list my fairly simple (and goal specific even) "end goals"

Whever you need to know on "application / goal" I'll supply.

We might find it's not badly broken, the challenges are minor and addressable. It's clear that I simply need to "translate" modifications I've already created to PROPERLY deployment, rather than being forced to fly by the seat of my pants (for everyplace else I've been, I quickly learned "root" was a taboo word, submission to systemd -- I even TRIED it -- OMG what a sloppy mess but submit one must, or out with ye...)

I did not intentionally acquire bad or sloppy habits. I'll do my best to correct them, as I sense they might now, finally, be un-necessary here.

Thank you in advance --
slowride

PS -- the docs REALLY are GOOD. I mean from the perspective of a 3rd generation, only 2nd gen american, OLD, old-school Engineer, McGrandpa's pattent is still findable, McDad had a hand in many FoMoCo Factory Service Manuals, Myself did the technical Illustration and helped proof-read a required text of a major, highly respected trade union - All this occurred in pre-historic times, even so. Look at what's published today - What you've done is refreshing, indeed to these old eyeballs.

[dr. Dan]

@slowride:

I'm not on the Fatdog team, but I think I can give you some initial help.

1. Keep sda1 small. Fatdog64 is compact!
2. Do the frugal install. It works just fine. There are those who need a full install, but most don't, and frugal is more secure in case of trouble.
3. Use a save folder. It doesn't have to be enlarged.
4. check the "small initrd" box in the installer for a slight speed increase at boot.
5. If you've already made changes and don't want to lose them, save them to a directory in sda3, then copy them back after a successful installation. Better to install first, and modify after.
6. (Maybe, but check with the devs) Put the save folder in sda3.

Yes, the devs have done impressive work. A little patience and learning and it should get much easier.

Dan

[Sage]

Do the frugal install.

The dr. speaks with forked tongue! Contact jb and ask him for the instructions to do a FULL install. Save files are nothing but trouble - always have been, always will be, just take a look at the legions of tales of woe in these posts. By the time files get onto media, there's already been a load of compressions. Stick with plain files. What's the problem with space on media? HDs ~40Gb were considered BIG a decade ago, now everyone has cheap Tb discs and even SDs, USBs and SSDs come in 64/128/250Gb. Uncompress your FD64 and it'll only occupy a tiny corner of any of those. No need to inflate/deflate, recompress re-decompress multiply compressed agglomerates. One file goes bad - replace it. K.I.S.S. is always the correct way in every technology.

[belham2]

Do the frugal install.

The dr. speaks with forked tongue! Contact jb and ask him for the instructions to do a FULL install. Save files are nothing but trouble - always have been, always will be, just take a look at the legions of tales of woe in these posts.

Sage,

No disrespect, but sometimes you gotta cut the bullsh!t. With it (with regards to this constant harping about 'savefiles' and "frgual installs' here and over the past years that only you keep espousing) it isn't even funny anymore. Just cut it out, because it is not true. The only place it is true is in your own mind. There is no "legion" of tales of woe on this board. There is you. Mostly only you. I've been here 14 yrs now on Murga, and there is no 'legion', period and it is only a fiction in your own mind, that for some reason you keep harping about even though it doesn't exist. What does exist? There is just you, and a select few others. Together, this little troop (you included) subject the 99.98% of the rest of us to posts from people that: a) do not understand 'savefiles', and; b) do dumba#ss things when handling savefiles.

I am sorry about the tone of this post, but you have got to learn when to back off about some things. Stop doing a disservice to everyone else who uses savefiles and/or---especially---new users who might consider wanting to use them. And for the love of it all, stop about frugal installs. Do you even hear yourself? It is unreal. Frugal installs are what Puppy is all about. Period.

[drunkjedi]

I don't use savefile.....

I use savefolder.

With the expand kernel boot parameter my base sfs gets expanded to RAM on boot. So there's no ongoing compression-decompression while using system. Hopefully.

There's no right way to boot.
There's just your own way.
I use it because I like it that way.
If somebody tell me how to load a full install in RAM, I will try that too.
But that doesn't mean only my way is the right way.

[drunkjedi]

@Fatdog team,

Conky doesn't seem to be built with lua bindings.

My old collection of conky configs throw error about lua_load and also argb.
Conky -v doesn't show anything about lua, argb or cairo, which I saw on few threads while searching.

I found following link to build conky-lua.
https://github.com/antonio-malcolm/conk ... rom-Source
It says I will need lua-devel and lua5.1-devel.
In gslapt it shows lua is installed.
Are those 2 packages different than the lua in gslapt.
Also have to compile tolua and tolua++ for it....

I am on tight data leash for few days, so didn't download dev sfs yet.

If anyone has working conky with lua, please do share.

[Sage]

not true

- wrong again! Your intemperate tone does you a disservice, too. You need to read more about the way data is stored from the 0's and 1's up. You need to read all the difficulties folks have and have had with these accursed implementations. It is you who have forgotten how Puppy started, as a tiny liveCD, a FULL install coming a little later, but liveCDs were the flavour back then along with TinyCore, etc. No-one dreamed of using a compact distro for anything except 'live' operation with nothing saved, except perhaps a few settings - when you eject the CD everything is deleted - what a wonderful invention in these days of data mining & co. Folks who want full Linux implementations whithout the tears or fun of BK's experimental offerings should load up Fedora, SuSe, Mint, w.h.y.
No - it is you needs to wise up, stop your nonsense, abuse and misleading others. Your Trump-et is broken. In the meantime, my best advice to the legions who have trouble with their Save files is to run the liveCD/USB/SD or make a well-protected FULL installation, capable of accepting regular updates and upgrades without the grief of renaming, moving, uncompressing, recompressing and all those issues which might be beyond all but the respected gurus on this site, of whom you clearly are not one. And, don't start preaching to me about how long you've been around. I started using computers with an Eliot Automation Pegasus running Autocode, probably before you were born.

[step]

@slowride,

I'm not sure what your question is. If it is about installing Fatdog64 to a non-UEFI machine, then please read Faq #4 here http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/faqs/faq.html. It really is a good document if you take the time.
As regards terminology, Fatdog64 is installed as a frugal install, this is discussed at length in Faq #4.
As regards the (possibly encrypted) savefile, it saves your updates and configuration so that they're persistent across reboots. You probably know that. You have a choice (when you first shutdown Fatdog64) between a save FILE and a save DIR. The save DIR is, well, a directory that you can place on the hard disk of your PC or other storage media. Therein you will find all file updates you make. You don't need to do anything to maintain the save dir: it's all automatic.

I run my system with a savedir on a USB stick.
Other people like to keep the savedir (or savefile) on an internal hard disk.

[TyroBGinner]

I am asking this again in the hope that it gets a response.

How does one implement a driver quirk in fatdog? I put in a file containing the line "options usb-storage quirks=<vendor id>:<product id>:u" in a blacklist.conf file in /etc/modprobe.d but it did not do anything. This quirk disables the uas driver in favor of the usb_storage driver. Also, curiously, there was already a file in the original fatdog 721 iso, named initrd.conf, to blacklist the uas driver. Despite all this, the uas driver is registered on startup and loads in response to a usb-attached-scsi device being plugged in.

Can anyone offer an idea on how to load only the usb_storage driver?
Also, how can the uas driver still appear with the blacklist file present?

[dr. Dan]

@slowride:
You asked about Fatdog64 being flexible. I recommend this page:
http://www.lightofdawn.org/wiki/wiki.cg ... sVersatile

Also, when you do get good results, swapon does work, but has to be done specifically, it's not automatic. And based on what you wrote elsewhere, you ought to be able to modify your existing boot loader to add Fatdog64 to your existing distro set.

One more thing. Short questions with "just the facts" work well here. The devs (step, for example) are helpful; listen to them.

Dan

[slowride]

@step (drunkjedi, sage, belham2, dr. Dan)

#1 Question answered... NWTF0 to tower, acknowlege? = Radio Works!

NEXT thing, only reason I barged in here, (n00b in EXPERT area?) was having been sent by the kind folks over in the (THANK YOU, whomever added "start here") "BEGINNERS AREA". Someone said something like "You better go ask over at (url) because FatDog64 has features all it's own". Makes perfect sense to an old dog-handler. Training methods that work great on "Pet Type" dogs are apt to FAIL TRAGICALLY with a Belgian Malinois... Conversely:

I'm pretty sure alot of my struggles are due to arriving at "Puppy as a Whole" from the world of "Rudimentary Linux" --- It feels like going from "Stuffed Animal" to "Living Creature"

When I'm up against something common to all pups (Frugal Install seems to be one) PLEASE point me over there. (The Belgian Malinois anaology, for clarification try Wikipedia)

@slowride, I'm not sure what your question is.

You still provided exactly the answer I sought, though...

The URL ---> FAQ. It'll be about 300x more effective if I can GET THE PRINTER UP. For whatever reason info on PAPER isn't "Slippery". Might be a tactile issue. A string of gibberish even, if I copy it from paper, to paper - it's quickly indelible. Copying from a screen does NOT work yes I tried it.

Reading on screen I easily get big picture, and with a few repetitions WILL grasp principals... In US aviation, there's (Thank heaven) great resistance to the notion of "conversion" to entirely digital Service Repair Manuals. When us old Fossils die off, "Aint gonna Fly, Orville" MIGHT intervene.

I literally CANNOT RETAIN details without the darn paper Manual. This is probably due to having my pudgy paws slapped away from smudging the TV screen as a child, For all I know reading from the screens folks like my son deftly poke and swipe DOES WORK. Meanwhile elder-geek curses and fumes trying to answer a call by "swiping" I've accepted that whatever manual dexterity is involved is NOT within my "doesn't need to SEE to find the hole or correctly align the threaded fastener" faculties...

Never got the printer working on previous linux. I suspect "alleged dependency" on absent systemd. HP publishes drivers.

Sadly cannot locate outside of dubious Scourge-forced.

lsusb "sees it" (Printers I/O connection), HP C4680.

I'm in R&D test drive mode, temp install, is LPT1 possible?

Please advise.
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About Savefile:

I've let the dog do whatever she wants. Interferred as little as possible. Since the good doggy "asked out", I pointed WHERE (and hoped) then, not only is there a save (apparently directory)

aufs shows evidence it might have attempted to "Install Frugal" where I "pointed"

that was bare naked ext4 /dev/sdb1

No I didn't forget, that's the remaining 300g "fossil HD" I've been using as a "scap pile" now with a little tripidation, for I really need to get in there an CHECK ITS DATE of MFR.

NOT TO WORRY re "saving my work" I backup, making 2 copies in different locations... If anything I'm darn near OCD about it, and sorting through the "hoarder debris" (DONT ever delete anything of potential use) to remove the "trash" is about as time consuming as data recovery!

I'm suspecting save-file/folder is a choice amenable to what feels right for individuals. I'm noplace close to a level of experience to "have a feel for", and "RIGHT" truly individual specific. Outside of harm to others, I mean. You'd be astonished what dogs can teach! (the kind with fur & 4 legs)

Without being told, I actually backed up the save-dir itself -- I'd planned to dissect the contents.

Surely, I'd not dissect the "live one"?

I also heard something about /dev/sda1 being small, well -- to STRANGER TO PUPPY, 65 Gigs is small. Someplace around here I've got a pair of 1TB drives, possibly partially recoverable, casualties of what happens when TVA power fails right in the middle of backup. To me 1TB is barely adequate

It could well be that the 18 gig SWAP partition might be what "Puppy Folks" consider small, and the appropriate place for her home.

But what of SWAP? The reason I had 18 gig swap partition is this box (thank God) will allow 16 gigs of 'real' when I can afford that I didn't want to reformat to accomodate it's swap space?

Yes I know swap shoould equal REAL but for some obtuse reason I feel it needs some wiggle room. In machinery, there's hundreds of needful intentional "wiggle room" things. Clutch is a good example?

So the where and how of FatDog's swap, is it "special" or should I look to PuppyLinux (in general)

As I said earlier, I'm in R&D test-drive mode. I'd already known I'll have to start at the beginning to PROPERLY install, much less enjoy this thing...

THANKS FOLKS
(I really enjoy it here)

[step]

@slowride,

You're in the right thread to be asking questions about Fatdog64. Welcome.

As regards your printer and LPT1, no, it isn't possible.

About swap space, yours is a general Linux question. I would re-phrase it as, "What's the recommended swap space size for Linux?", and google a few answers. You'll probably find some opinions and some consensus. Focus on the latter, and decide what's best for your specific case. In any case, that rule of thumb, SWAP SPACE = RAM SIZE isn't necessarily valid, especially when you have 16 GB of real RAM. Your swap space can be smaller without trouble.

I hope I understood what your questions were.

[dr. Dan]

@ step,

just out of curiosity, and if it is convenient, why not LPT1? I rarely print, and got rid of my own printer (more hassle than it was worth), but I'm generally curious when I'm told "can't".

Also, would a theme-switcher for the lxqt panel be much effort? I do it manually, but it would seem to go along with the obconf and gtk configuration utilities.

Dan

[drunkjedi]

I made a udev rule to automate switching On usb tethering internet when an android is connected with usb tethering selected in it's setting.
It works.
Need some suggestions/constructive criticism to improve it.
See http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112890

Thanks in advance.

[step]

@dr. Dan,

Most commonly, LPT1 refers to the DOS/Windows reserved device name for a parallel printer port. But the OP's printer model, "HP C4680", only has USB ports according to the vendor's support page.

[slowride]

@step
Your perception is again accurate. Upon review, it may be possible to carry out #4 on the live (ish) system w/o even paper.

@Anyone proficient::

This "existant OS" I saw (>1) in #4 FAQ, and else where ( >1) -- Tabula Rasa. Many stored FILES, no OS.

#1 ?q? is it expected the new user has "resident already" one, or is it REQUIRED that one be existant?
#1a: If "existant" response shows a positive consensus should I drop back inat LQ for that? Absence of GTK3 is what led me to Puppy to begine with. GTK3 isn't just an eyesore, it's downright limitting and un-co-operative. "hamburgers" on the WRONG side of box, more often than not absent clear File, Edit, or anything remotely resembling a sensibly organized menu (all LOSSES with NO benefits... WHY Gnu, why?) Most all "mainstream Disto" are default-INFESTED with this infernal nuisance.... I don't want to stir poo without the spoon ELSE-where, if they'll have no viable solution to offer me?
#2 ?q? re: "LPT1 not possible". Clarify? not from "my present mess" or "not possible" (period) The HP "magic boxa wtf" is not what LPT's underlying "mastication" was designed to efficiently feed: The voracious appetite of = "high performance" TELETYPE

#2a: if printing IS a possibility, ask @ hardware area?

@sage -- I clearly read YOU use the phrase

a well-protected ___ install

I've not formed conclusions or made decisions. Focuse of ?Q? is "well protected" should you feel inclined to give an example of what that means to you -- I've an open question over in the security area. btw my email is borked, sorry...
@dr. Dan
Scanned your URL. WOW. Bookmarked. Quality tools are NEVER free. mkswap & swapon old standby's -- Still making sense of filesystem, Gotta stay focussed on settling in (reliable backup HD is after achieving print)

THANK YOU ALL!!
slowride

[snayak]

Dear All,

At http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/kernels/720/ I see a lot of kernels for FD 720. Now I use default kernel 4.14.6. Can I assume all my FD 720 applications will continue to work fine with these kernels?

[I know the standard disclaimer. ]

Hope that's the main idea behind this kernel repository. Right?

Sincerely,
Srinivas Nayak

[watchdog]

Changing kernels affects only drivers not applications...

[slowride]

@step
(+ anyone with patience)

re: FAQ #4 (Installing & boot loaders)

Worst case scenario, carry the silly printer over to kids m$ box and make the precious papers

I'm TABULA RASA. No OS boots from hard drive.

FAQ (the #4) step kindly pointed me at refers to existant OS (of many flavors)

Medical Condition: I can't spend too much time SEDENTARY (@ the CRT) 3hrs max a day tops. And should NOT be doin that much but I'm trying to get this thing where I can USE it... not fiddle with.

Based on the above -- don't hold my hand, I have the docs.

A: IS THE EXISTANT OS REQUIRED

B. IF SO I HAVE AN ISO FOR EVERYTHING (even the m$ up to 7, beyond that, not only no but he-ELEVEN no)

C. WHATS THE FASTEST OPTION, OF THOSE LISTED IN DOCS 2 get my puppy in the house?

D. I !Prefer !m$ cause the SOB steals an EXTRA partition someplace for it's very own WTF why??? I have no clue. that's parta what went wrong to begin with, I suspect was m$ "dandles" with the MBT strangely

E. Does the FatDog64 Install option expect to find a bootloader that's already "been dandled with"

F. Once I get there, I will hound some poor soul down to tell me how to disable the caps lock key, Got tactile issues @ fingers (construction work, yay!!!) damn thing turns on when I don't tell it to all the *&^# time

Apologies for techno-tardation. I'm mostly a Graphic Arts // Video Production head.

[snayak]

Dear watchdog,

I admit your point.

Changing kernels affects only drivers not applications...

But I get doubt, if we are thing so, then why we need to upgrade kernel? Can we have all latest software running on 2.6 kernel?

Please correct me if I am missing something while understanding it.

Sincerely,
Srinivas Nayak