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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Puppy Remaster Program needs updated from 18th Century
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davids45


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 1105
Location: Chatswood, NSW

PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr 2018, 20:15    Post subject: Musher0's script
Subject description: Two tests successful - Stretch & Puduan Pups
 

G'day,

I have made two a-drives from Pup save-files using musher0's script.

These were oldish recent Pups which had no a-drive by default, just puppy- and z- sfs and a save-file. So I didn't know if the a-drive would work since there wasn't one to begin with.

First mistake I made was to try running the script from another Pup - found I needed to be in the Pup itself to convert the save-file to an a-drive Embarassed .

Once 'in the Pup', everything went quickly and smoothly. Well, when I got it right.

Second mistake was to not quite get the words after 'adrive-' right so the new a-drive file was ignored at booting Embarassed Embarassed .

For each test, once I had the a-drive sfs created in the particular Pup's /root/myapplications/bin, I made a new Frugal sub-folder of the Pup and copied the usual files from the iso and added the just-made a-drive.

Adding this new Pup to my Frugals menu.lst, I booted up each new Pup with its a-drive and each had the wanted applications from the new a-drive (pinboard screenshots). On closing down each new Pup, I made a save-file as normally required. Rebooting was normal.

Pets & sfs for applications
All my applications (as per icons on the pinboards) are added to a new Pup as pets made of symlinks to the program files stored on my data partition. Except gimp which I still add as an sfs. Initially I found gimp was not being included in the a-drive although the pinboard icon was still there, albeit as a missing file icon (!).

Adding an extra sfs
I found MU's sfs-combiner pet from 10 years ago and tried combining the gimp sfs with the just-made a-drive sfs. The new combined sfs (re-named as needed to be the a-drive sfs) I now used in place of the initial a-drive sfs and now each a-drive also loaded up the sfs of gimp Very Happy .

So a good result for me and what I think I'm trying to achieve by remastering my Pups - I'm not really certain why, but that's life Shocked .

I'll keep on trying with other Pups and adding applications, missing libs, etc., as needed in each Pup.

Thanks again, musher0.

David S.
puduan-adrive-allapps.jpg
 Description   Puduan-Pup pinboard with icons of applications from the script-made a-drive (gimp from a combining of sfs files - a-drive and gimp.sfs)
 Filesize   98.63 KB
 Viewed   317 Time(s)

puduan-adrive-allapps.jpg

stretchdeluxe-adrivelinks.jpg
 Description   DPup-Stretch-Deluxe running with a script-made a-drive
 Filesize   105.94 KB
 Viewed   316 Time(s)

stretchdeluxe-adrivelinks.jpg

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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2399
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr 2018, 20:41    Post subject:  

Hi, Davids45. Older Puppys don't support the adrv, ydrv, etc. but only the zdrv. However, one can still use the "adrv" method by renaming your big, base sfs to that of the zdrv and renaming your newly created "adrv" to that of the base sfs.
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12318
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr 2018, 23:01    Post subject:
Subject description: psave2pdrv.sh
 

nic007 wrote:
Hi, Davids45. Older Puppys don't support the adrv, ydrv, etc. but only the zdrv. However, one can still use the "adrv" method by renaming your big, base sfs to that of the zdrv and renaming your newly created "adrv" to that of the base sfs.
EEEEchch!!! Laughing

If you rename the zdrv, you lose it, nic007! And bye-bye to AA-LL-LL your drivers!

IIRC, that was a technique evolved by much respected Albertan compatriot and
forum member "mrb" shortly after he created a Puppy-4.12 that could load +/- 60
sfs's without blinking : it worked for him, but never for me!!!

I'll try to find the thread with his comments and mine. (It may take some "real" Wink
research since that was quite a few years ago.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edit --

Removed the "pdrv" script after discussion with nic007 below. Also because sfs_load
messes up a number of things. Some day or other, I'll try to make a version that does
not need sfs_load.

On the other hand, the script above psave2adrv.sh workds well on recent Puppies,
provided you do not already have an adrv.

BFN

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)

Last edited by musher0 on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 11:50; edited 1 time in total
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2399
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 01:50    Post subject:  

musher0, you will find that most of the older puppys do not actually use a seperate zdrv as all the drivers have already been packaged into the base sfs. I use puppy 412, Wary and Racy and none of them have an operating zdrv for the drivers/extra drivers by default. So the "adrv method" to replace and act like an existing running savefile works perfectly for me with the name switching as suggested (my script is different of course to make this easy). Even if I had a seperate zdrv for drivers in this scenario, I would have merged the contents of the zdrv and the base sfs and called it the zdrv (no drivers are getting lost here). This option is normally available too when one does a remaster. I'm not quite sure I follow your suggestions if one has an old puppy and want to use the "adrv method". The thing is, one has limited options when working with an old puppy. You basically have the base sfs, zdrv and extra sfs's you can work with. The order of loading an old puppy would be in order of layers (preference) - savefile, base sfs, zdrv, extra sfs's. So if you want to replace the savefile with an sfs to load your changed configurations, etc. in the top layer, the name of that sfs MUST be the name of the original base sfs according to the booting sequence. The zdrv then follows and then extra sfs's. Creating an extra sfs for additional drivers may or may not work, depending upon whether those drivers are required during the bootup process. As a matter of interest and clarity: what is the name of your "adrv" replacing your savefile when dealing with an old puppy that does not support the adrv?
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12318
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 04:23    Post subject:  

Hi nic007.

In the new version of my script, it is "pdrv". P being sort of the typical letter for
anything Puppy. psave to pdrv, it is easy to remember what it does.

About the order thing, is it that important? In my mind, sfs layers are more like
slices of swiss cheese, with holes in them, and the full parts of one slice may or
may not cover the holes of other layers.

Let's say that you have icewm in one sfs, but not in any other "slice" or sfs: it will
work regardless of which slice or layer it is in. But if you compile and include a
more recent version of the fsck utility in an "extra" sfs, it will sit over the old
version, it will block the access to the old version and be used instead.

So that theory of layers, of what gets executed first depending on the layer, is not
absolute, as I understand it. Anyway, you do it your way, through remaster, and I
do it my way, ok?

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2399
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 04:46    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Hi nic007.

In the new version of my script, it is "pdrv". P being sort of the typical letter for
anything Puppy. psave to pdrv, it is easy to remember what it does.

About the order thing, is it that important? In my mind, sfs layers are more like
slices of swiss cheese, with holes in them, and the full parts of one slice may or
may not cover the holes of other layers.

Let's say that you have icewm in one sfs, but not in any other "slice" or sfs: it will
work regardless of which slice or layer it is in. But if you compile and include a
more recent version of the fsck utility in an "extra" sfs, it will sit over the old
version, it will block the access to the old version and be used instead.

So that theory of layers, of what gets executed first depending on the layer, is not
absolute, as I understand it. Anyway, you do it your way, through remaster, and I
do it my way, ok?

BFN.


The order of layers (preference) is most important. That's why we have the savefile at the very top to override everything loaded thereafter. Your pdrv won't work as suggested because it's loaded as an extra sfs and lower priority as the base sfs and zdrv. So you can do it your way but it won't work as replacement for the savefile or advr in older puppys. You will have to rename it to the name of the base sfs so that your configuration changes or whatever takes preference. I don't need to remaster anything. Now take a deep breath.... Wink
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12318
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 05:21    Post subject:  

Why should I? I'm secure in what I produce, man!

Please try my script before bad-mouthing it! As long as your puppy has shinobar's
sfs_load, rsync and mksquasfs, it will work. And of course a pupsave file?! Twisted Evil

Now you take a deep breath! Smile

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2399
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 06:37    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Why should I? I'm secure in what I produce, man!

Please try my script before bad-mouthing it! As long as your puppy has shinobar's
sfs_load, rsync and mksquasfs, it will work. And of course a pupsave file?! Twisted Evil

Now you take a deep breath! Smile

You are missing the point my friend. It has NOTHING to do with your script (which I'm sure works for producing your adrv and your pdrv, etc.). The discussion is about what is going to work for older puppys which do not support the adrv. And now I'm going to repeat myself. Making a pdrv or any other extra sfs with sfs_load, will load LAST in order of preference at bootup. Same files in the base sfs or zdrv sfs will take preference because they have higher preference (like the contents of a savefile has). I'm not going to try to explain this to you further but will leave you with this thought to test your OWN theory. Bootup an older puppy like Racy. Save your configuration changes (like a change to background) to a pdrv.sfs as you suggest. Then bootup your base sfs and zdrv (if you have one)... and your pdrv.sfs with sfs_load and see if your configuration changes have been effected. Then please report back your results. Thanks and cheers.
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12318
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 07:58    Post subject:  

Ok, let's play who's the most stubborn. If you're not going to test my script, I'm not
going to re-install some old Pup. Even if I do I won't tell you. So there. This is
silly. Whatever the theory of it is.

You try to help people, to get co-operation and confirmation on tests and either you
get a lecture or you get flak or you get misplaced pride.

When it's not shinobar's sfs_load f...g up your PuppyPin. Or a French rsync by
busybox. You people want to be spoon-fed with pre-cooked scripts and not
participate in the tests, and play "blame the developer" when things do not go as
expected and you do not get perfection the first time. davids45 excepted.

Enough. Where's the nearest bridge? I think I'll go there and jump off.

I just saw a flight in V formation of about 200 wild geese heading NW back home
along the Ottawa River. Now, they know the meaning of co-operation.

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2399
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 09:14    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Ok, let's play who's the most stubborn. If you're not going to test my script, I'm not
going to re-install some old Pup. Even if I do I won't tell you. So there. This is
silly. Whatever the theory of it is.

You try to help people, to get co-operation and confirmation on tests and either you
get a lecture or you get flak or you get misplaced pride.

When it's not shinobar's sfs_load f...g up your PuppyPin. Or a French rsync by
busybox. You people want to be spoon-fed with pre-cooked scripts and not
participate in the tests, and play "blame the developer" when things do not go as
expected and you do not get perfection the first time. davids45 excepted.

Enough. Where's the nearest bridge? I think I'll go there and jump off.

I just saw a flight in V formation of about 200 wild geese heading NW back home
along the Ottawa River. Now, they know the meaning of co-operation.

BFN.

Your script has nothing to do with the matter. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy If I haven't known you better from this forum, I might have concluded that you are, well, dumb, (okay, let's rather say stubborn). But I'm sure that's not the case..but I'm starting to wonder. You seem to be insecure about your script which is NOT under attack at all. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12318
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 09:31    Post subject:  

Fine.

Let's say -- for now, until I or someone else checks further --
that my scripts are not for older Pups.

I have other, urgent, things to do today.

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2399
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 09:40    Post subject:  

Last reply. Ask yourself this question and maybe something will hit home. Why do you think it's necessary to save the contents of your savefile to an adrv and not to any other made-up sfs file called pdrv.sfs or whatever, instead?
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12318
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 12:00    Post subject:  

It's not necessary either way. Some people will be happy forever with a 9Gb pupsave.

Some other people do not like big pupsave files, but find the remaster process long,
arduous, and demanding a lot of focus and knowledge. For a newbie, I'd go as far as
saying that remastering is an anxiety generator. ("Been there, done that.")

Another factor which is important to me, but maybe not to other Puppyists, is that
remastering spoils the original Pup. I do not like remastering and try to avoid it.

That does not mean that a developer should not adapt a woof-CE product for say, the
icewm or waimea WMs, if we want to showcase them -- or Linphone, or a different
browser, or what have you. But once that variant is finalized, it should stay finalized as
much as possible.

Anyway, in my post above (q.v.), I removed my "pdrv" script until I find a replacement
for sfs_load and study the subject more.

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2399
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 15:56    Post subject:  

As a matter of interest here is my howto on what we have been discussing, posted many months ago: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=944470&search_id=2019153790#944470
I've been using my Puppys for years this way. BTW - If you keep your adrv very small (mine is about 2MB) and only use it to save configuration changes/settings (like me), you may just as well operate with a small savefile instead. A savefile is more flexible anyway as it is read and write and not read-only like an sfs file. I will however never use or recommend the use of a huge savefile. Choices, choices...
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12318
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 17:40    Post subject:  

Hi nic007.

With a rested head, something did "hit home":

-- Absolutely all Puppies can have a zdrv_xxx.sfs

-- Absolutely all versions of mksquashfs append by default. The user has to
specify the "-no-append" parameter to squish an existing squash file. (Play on words
not really intentional!) Otherwise it appends.

Do you see where I'm going ??!! Just a thought.

If applied, of course, this raw reasoning will need to be refined. Among other things,
providing the user with a small pupsave somewhat automatically to replace the
one that has just been squashed. Plus lots of tests so everything would be down pat.

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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