BionicDog (updated: 2018-06-04)

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backi · #571 Post by **backi** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 11:36

Fully agree Moat and Zagreb.
You hit the Nail.

Greetings from " NEW ABSURDISTAN " ......(formerly known as " GERMANY " )

Seems all those Hardcore Fans are coming out of the Closet now!

nic007 · #572 Post by **nic007** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 12:16

Thanks for the replies. No, I've never used any other linux distribution besides Puppy. So the difference seems to be better package management... but it's not faster running, etc. I suppose the general packages that comes with Puppy is good enough for me although I do run Wine sometimes for some of my favourite windows apps.

rufwoof · #573 Post by **rufwoof** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 13:47

zagreb999 wrote:MUCH BETTER means:

debiandog and xenialdog can instal ALL apps
from debian and ubuntu-
over 50000 apps...
it is more faster because of lz4 compression...
remaster in 10 sec....
and MUCH, MUCH MORE!!!

I suspected that something like that would be your definition of BETTER. Respect that, but here's a outline of mine. Debian prefer you to just use their base/main repos only, adding contrib and/or non-free induces risks. Go even wider and add yet other repos and you further increase the risk. But as you say loads of apps to try out. When I was running Debian my base only install, not a particularly large range of apps, had 1700+ vulnerabilities. Some of those would have been security vulnerabilities. That wasn't to my liking so I switched over to OpenBSD. Fewer apps, slower, single repo and system supplied in a ready out of the box configuration that was refined by experts. Fewer security risks. For me that is BETTER as I value not having my identity stolen and avoiding the years of strife that can cause (court cases, baliffs knocking your door to confiscate assets for something you never did etc.) is BETTER. DebianDog in contrast is the complete polar opposite, turns Debian into a FrankenDebian as they call it, along with running as root (even vlc and google chrome which both google and vlc went out of their way to try and prevent for security reasons).

zagreb999 · #574 Post by **zagreb999** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 14:48

regards mr. rufwoof!

debiandog and xenialdog are the best
os's of all time, because -you are architect
of them. quickremaster is the best tool
i have ever seen!
dd and xd are very simple, good organized...
instead of root you can use puppy,
or create your login password.

compliments!

fredx181 · #575 Post by **fredx181** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 17:27

rufwoof wrote:FrankenDebian

Maybe then you can find a better way to sabotage instead of your lame attempt a while back ?
(oh, no... you may get banned again)

OK, without sarcasm, I think it would be appropriate that you apologize, or do you think your action was "justified" because you see it as "FrankenDebian" ?

Moat · #576 Post by **Moat** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 18:25

Why rufwoof continually and zealously exclaims his hyper-security notions/bend (paranoia?) at ALL here in the Puppy forum, of all places - being Puppy, FatDog and the Dogs are all fundamentally "run-as-root" distros by default and have been since the beginning, with thousands of happy, "un-breached" users - is completely beyond me. There are literally hundreds of other distros for him to choose from which honor something more akin to his idea of proper security practices. Hundreds!!

As a fringe, narrowly-focused hobbyist experiment - sure... I can understand the intention and interest. But to actually criticize the distro(s), itself...????

C'mon. That's like buying a Corvette at a Jeep dealership - and then criticizing about how poorly it performs offroad...

As if we don't know what a 'Vette is for!?!

Makes no sense...

Bob

rufwoof · #577 Post by **rufwoof** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 20:35

fredx181 wrote:you see it as "FrankenDebian" ?

That's the official Debian terminology ... as you very well know. You create a Debian Live derivative, but never post about it on the Debian boards/forums, as again you know the consequences.

rufwoof · #578 Post by **rufwoof** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 20:50

Moat wrote:Why rufwoof continually and zealously exclaims his hyper-security notions/bend (paranoia?) at ALL here in the Puppy forum, of all places - being Puppy, FatDog and the Dogs are all fundamentally "run-as-root" distros by default and have been since the beginning, with thousands of happy, "un-breached" users - is completely beyond me.
Makes no sense... Bob

When things are proclaimed as safe

, when known to be otherwise along with the potential consequences of such misleading, its sensible to point such out for the benefit of those that might otherwise be misled.

As a fringe, narrowly-focused hobbyist experiment

Fringe hobbyist toys can be fun to mess around with, but shouldn't be portrayed as being something they are not.

s243a · #579 Post by **s243a** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 20:55

rufwoof wrote:
fredx181 wrote:you see it as "FrankenDebian" ?
That's the official Debian terminology ... as you very well know. You create a Debian Live derivative, but never post about it on the Debian boards/forums, as again you know the consequences.

I thought "Bionic" would imply an Ubuntu derivative but I supposes Ubuntu was based on debian. Anway, if there is a repo that you don't want in your package manager why not just remove the repo and if want to run the system as a different user than why not just do it? Your free to customize fredx181's releases as you like. You don't need to force your preferences on anyone else. However, you could release your own variant and see if others buy into it.

dancytron · #580 Post by **dancytron** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 21:16

nic007 wrote:Thanks for the replies. No, I've never used any other linux distribution besides Puppy. So the difference seems to be better package management... but it's not faster running, etc. I suppose the general packages that comes with Puppy is good enough for me although I do run Wine sometimes for some of my favourite windows apps.

There are some other advances, some that ideally Puppy will copy.

The apt2sfs script will automatically create an sfs file with all the dependencies correctly set up by just typing in the package name. So, for example, I can just type in "prboom-plus" and an sfs will all the dependencies will be automatically created, ready to use.

Another advance Puppy should look at is when save2flash is run, it doesn't just save the contents of the tmpfs, it also purges some (not sure of the criteria) from the tmpfs. When you are running out of memory because the tmpfs is filling up in Puppy, you have to reboot. In Debian Dog etc, you can just run save2flash and get the memory back.

The remaster process is different. It supports lz4, making it lightning fast. It also is set up where is will automatically backup old files, replace them with new files, and then reboot into the new remastered installation. You can literally fill out one dialog screen, press the button, and be rebooting into your newly remastered system in 3 or 4 minutes.

Also, an automatic kernel upgrade to the latest kernel.

There are other things that Puppy does that Debian Dog does just a little better, but these are the ones that stand out.

rufwoof · #581 Post by **rufwoof** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 21:32

s243a wrote:I thought "Bionic" would imply an Ubuntu derivative but I supposes Ubuntu was based on debian. Anway, if there is a repo that you don't want in your package manager why not just remove the repo and if want to run the system as a different user than why not just do it? Your free to customize fredx181's releases as you like. You don't need to force your preferences on anyone else. However, you could release your own variant and see if others buy into it.

What is it with you people, Fred, Moat, now you jumping on me because of my differing interpretation/definition of "Better". Oh well. Meh!

rufwoof · #582 Post by **rufwoof** » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 21:50

dancytron wrote:There are some other advances, some that ideally Puppy will copy.
.
.
The remaster process is different. It supports lz4, making it lightning fast.

I was posting leads for faster remastering and the benefits of lz4 a couple of years ago (http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 498#928498 and http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 453#888453). Fred took interest and adopted the concepts into DD, seemed to fall on deaf ears of others (Puppy). Since then Pup developers seem to have further faded away, so don't hold your breath.

Moat · #583 Post by **Moat** » Mon 24 Sep 2018, 03:53

rufwoof wrote:When things are proclaimed as safe ...

... but shouldn't be portrayed as being something they are not.

For real??

Whatever. Nice try. Nice little "lol" emoticon - almost makes you appear innocent.

You're a persistent, sneaky little troll, rufwoof - called out yet again - this time putting words in our (my!

) mouths in an attempt to salvage your appearance of "innocence" at oh-so-slyly disparaging Fred's work once more. Jeebus... must be some bruise on that Ego.

Whatever.

Just knock the childish trolling $hit off. We've tired of it.

Bob

Moat · #584 Post by **Moat** » Mon 24 Sep 2018, 04:00

rufwoof wrote:
Moat wrote:As a fringe, narrowly-focused hobbyist experiment
Fringe hobbyist toys can be fun to mess around with, but shouldn't be portrayed as being something they are not.

I was talking about you and your gross obsession/paranoia around security. But of course, you attempt to interpret the meaning in order to further disparage Fred's work. In fact, your statement thus becomes a knock against your own.

Bob

zagreb999 · #585 Post by **zagreb999** » Mon 24 Sep 2018, 07:08

rufwoof

as great academic can you applay
latest lz4 - 1.8.2 compression to
deb.dog and xenialdog?

nic007 · #586 Post by **nic007** » Mon 24 Sep 2018, 08:13

Looks like lz4 compression is so quick because its compression ratio is so piss poor compared to the others.
https://catchchallenger.first-world.inf ... LZ4_vs_LZO

rufwoof · #587 Post by **rufwoof** » Mon 24 Sep 2018, 08:54

nic007 wrote:Looks like lz4 compression is so quick because its compression ratio is so piss poor compared to the others.
https://catchchallenger.first-world.inf ... LZ4_vs_LZO

Relatively poor, compared to much slower alternatives. Ball park 50% reduction compared to 66% reduction type figures, but magnitudes of order faster (even more so for decompression). When decompression is the more predominant usage and throughput speeds are the priority then its a excellent choice. Multiple cores doubling up the amount of read data really quickly ... can result in throughputs approaching ram speeds.

backi · #588 Post by **backi** » Mon 24 Sep 2018, 09:08

Hi Moat !
Why so strict on roofwoof???
Not so bad his Contributions .

nic007 · #589 Post by **nic007** » Mon 24 Sep 2018, 09:10

If one is looking at a balance beween compression rate and time, gzip is probably still the best choice. I use xz, not worried about the time. I hardly ever compress big files.

rufwoof · #590 Post by **rufwoof** » Mon 24 Sep 2018, 09:19

backi wrote:Hi Moat !
Why so strict on roofwoof???
Not so bad his Contributions .

I was, until I retired in my late 30's, involved in security/pen, global Blue-Chips. Whilst my knowledge is old-school nowadays I do still keep in contact with those still active in the field. I post hereabouts about the risks and (potentially very significant) consequences, not just against a single derivative, but for any others that I periodically try. Moat interprets those in his own inflammatory way.

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BionicDog (updated: 2018-06-04)