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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
BionicPup32 (UPupBB) (March 2019)
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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Sat 15 Dec 2018, 06:17    Post subject:  

d61cd57b831e4d38d81c603cf066570f upupbb-18.05+22.iso

{delta}

Just more ubuntu updates....

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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 1368
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Sat 15 Dec 2018, 22:36    Post subject:  

Hi peebee, is it possible to make the updates files as something other than delta files?
With delta updates one is locked to only using a frugal installation with a save-file.

See Is it possible to update an UPupBB live CD-R by delta files?

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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1291
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2018, 12:31    Post subject:  

Truecrypt runs fine in UpupBB
https://www.datafilehost.com/d/a24dccb3

No dependencies needed.

Same old download that has been there forever.
md5 has remained the same FWIW

.

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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2018, 17:26    Post subject:  

tallboy wrote:
Hi peebee, is it possible to make the updates files as something other than delta files?

Woof-CE makes new isos from updated components....the easiest way to distribute the updated iso is by deltas.....

There is no other tool available that I'm aware of to do the job in a different way.

Unless somebody knows otherwise.....

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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1291
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Mon 17 Dec 2018, 16:47    Post subject:  

tallboy wrote:
Hi peebee, is it possible to make the updates files as something other than delta files?
With delta updates one is locked to only using a frugal installation with a save-file.
]


Like turning the Delta files into a .pet or .sfs and install into save file on CD?

Maybe apply latest delta to original .iso and then compare all files in new iso to version of iso you are using (or compare to the original iso if you want)
and write the files that are newer (plus completely new files that are not in original iso} to a seperate directory with same directory structure as the new iso.

Then make a pet of the files that are newer.

Sounds like a good challenge for someone Smile

EDIT
********************
OK so I did this and something confuses me about the differences .
The upupbb-18.05.iso___upupbb-18.05+20.iso.delta file size is 58MB

The changed / added files in the upupbb-18.05+20.iso that I see is 42MB total - that is the files that are different between those two iso files total 42MB from the original release through +20.iso.delta
I only compared the puppy_upupbb_18.05.sfs as that is where most or all of the updates are installed to (I don't know that for certain though)

I don't know anything about delta files so the size difference of the 58MB delta and 42MB actual may represent some overhead needed for the file differences.

The differences between one delta file to the next is probably just a few MB mostly. Means you could get up to date and just make a pet of the differences and apply to the CD.

In case if anyone wants to play with this ....
I got the script from this page to do the compare
https://www.unix.com/shell-programming-and-scripting/110700-compare-files-two-directories-output-changed-files-third-directory.html
Code:

#!/bin/bash

# setup folders for our different stages
DIST=/var/www/localhost/htdocs/dist/
DIST_OLD=/var/www/localhost/htdocs/dist_old/
DIST_UPGRADE=/var/www/localhost/htdocs/dist_upgrade/

cd $DIST

find . -type f | while read filename
do
   if [ ! -f "$DIST_OLD$filename" ]; then
        cp --parents "$filename" $DIST_UPGRADE
      continue
   fi
   diff "$filename" "$DIST_OLD$filename" > /dev/null
   if [[ "$?" == "1" ]]; then
        # File exists but is different so copy changed file
        cp --parents $filename $DIST_UPGRADE
   fi
done


.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3165
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 17 Dec 2018, 21:28    Post subject:  

tallboy wrote:
Hi peebee, is it possible to make the updates files as something other than delta files?


Great idea, Tallboy. Smile

My best guess is that it is technically possible but systemically impossible. Sad
According to amigo, "A delta file consists of binary changes which cannot be extracted. It inserts/deletes binary values which are not correlated to file names, etc. The 'binary' representation of an iso is a linear form, mixing the metadata(file system formatting/padding) and data together." http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=672083#672083

Consequently, unlike pets or SFSes, deltas do not just contain files which will supplement or supplant existing files. If they could be extracted --none of the common tools available to puppies, and I don't know of any which, can-- their contents couldn't be directly used.

Deltas are now an established routine in the Puppy distribution system which system has both technological and human components. The technical challenge would be to find a substitute for deltas. And, while I can envision one method of doing so I doubt that it would provide any benefit to those running Puppies from a CD/DVD.

[When you run a Puppy from a re-writable CD/DVD, can you update kernels? Deltas involve as substantial change in one's overall system as changing kernels].

The real challenge, however, would be to convince the Devs working on Woof that there was a need to change the system.
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 1368
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Wed 19 Dec 2018, 02:40    Post subject:  

Bionic Beaver will have a long life, as they will support it to 2028. As I said in the thread linked to in my post above:
Quote:
The xdelta utility compares two files by expecting the correct md5sum from the original .iso. So it means that a modified .iso, by remastering or by an added delta file will not be accepted for updates. Which means that the same original BB will be added to over and over and over and over again for the next 10 years, no mods allowed

....and 22 updates already this year....

the xdelta manpage wrote:
Xdelta provides the ability to generate deltas between a pair of files and later apply those deltas. It operates similar to the diff and patch commands, but works on binary files and does not produce a human readable output.

and it also wrote:
By default, Xdelta always verifies the MD5 checksum of the files it reconstructs. This prevents you from supplying an incorrect input during patch, which would result in corrupt output. Because of this feature, you can feel confident that patch has produced valid results. The --noverify option disables MD5 verification, but this is only recommended for performance testing.


So any Puppy updated with delta files cannot be remastered, or used with a live CD/DVD?

Brilliant idea... Rolling Eyes

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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1291
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Fri 21 Dec 2018, 01:23    Post subject:  

tallboy wrote:
Bionic Beaver will have a long life, as they will support it to 2028. As I said in the thread linked to in my post above:
Quote:
The xdelta utility compares two files by expecting the correct md5sum from the original .iso. So it means that a modified .iso, by remastering or by an added delta file will not be accepted for updates. Which means that the same original BB will be added to over and over and over and over again for the next 10 years, no mods allowed

....and 22 updates already this year....

the xdelta manpage wrote:
Xdelta provides the ability to generate deltas between a pair of files and later apply those deltas. It operates similar to the diff and patch commands, but works on binary files and does not produce a human readable output.

and it also wrote:
By default, Xdelta always verifies the MD5 checksum of the files it reconstructs. This prevents you from supplying an incorrect input during patch, which would result in corrupt output. Because of this feature, you can feel confident that patch has produced valid results. The --noverify option disables MD5 verification, but this is only recommended for performance testing.


So any Puppy updated with delta files cannot be remastered, or used with a live CD/DVD?

Brilliant idea... Rolling Eyes


Hi tallboy,

All the updates since update 18-aug-2018 - 18.05+11 - ubuntu updates have only been ubuntu updates
https://sourceforge.net/projects/zestypup/files/Upup-Bionic/updates/

If you are up to +11 and don't update you will not be missing much, just the latest ubuntu stuff.
For example, the update from 18.05+21 to 18.05+22 contains only 5 files representing a total of 17MB
Code:
.
├── etc
│   └── system_build_date
└── root
    └── packages
        ├── Packages-ubuntu-bionic-main
        ├── Packages-ubuntu-bionic-universe
        ├── PKGS_HOMEPAGES
        └── woof-installed-packages

3 directories, 5 files


And the update from 18.05+20 to 18.05+21 contains only 22 files representing a total of 19MB
Code:
.
├── etc
│   ├── DISTRO_SPECS
│   └── system_build_date
├── root
│   └── packages
│       ├── builtin_files
│       │   └── pdiag
│       ├── devx-only-installed-packages
│       ├── Packages-puppy-noarch-official
│       ├── Packages-ubuntu-bionic-main
│       ├── Packages-ubuntu-bionic-multiverse
│       ├── Packages-ubuntu-bionic-universe
│       └── woof-installed-packages
├── usr
│   ├── bin
│   │   ├── perlbug
│   │   └── perlthanks
│   ├── lib
│   │   ├── pdiag
│   │   │   ├── pdiag-dialup
│   │   │   └── pdiag-network
│   │   ├── perl
│   │   │   └── 5.26.1
│   │   │       ├── Config_heavy.pl
│   │   │       └── CORE
│   │   │           ├── config.h
│   │   │           └── patchlevel-debian.h
│   │   └── perl-base
│   │       └── Config_heavy.pl
│   ├── local
│   │   └── petget
│   │       └── invaliddepslist
│   ├── sbin
│   │   └── pdiag
│   └── share
│       └── doc
│           ├── index.html
│           └── index.html.top
└── var
    └── log
        └── packages
            └── pdiag-20170325

20 directories, 22 files


I'm glad peebee keeps it updated but I do feel your pain running from CD and having to generate a new iso (and a new cd) every time you update.

Its not that important to do every update (n my opinion.)
Maybe if a security update, but running from cd you are secure <grin>

.
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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 3680
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sat 22 Dec 2018, 21:36    Post subject: UPup Bionic Beaver (UPupBB) 18.05 (May 2018)  

I did a new install to a usb-3.0 SSD, pc is a Lenovo ThinkCentre
desktop:

# inxi -bw
System: Host: puppypc13231 Kernel: 4.9.96-lxpup-32-pae i686 bits: 32 Desktop: JWM 2.3.7 Distro: UPupBB 18.05
Machine: Device: desktop System: LENOVO product: 7491B8U v: ThinkCentre M58e serial: MJ01509
Mobo: LENOVO model: N/A serial: INVALID BIOS: LENOVO v: 5HKT39AUS date: 06/17/2009
CPU: Dual core Intel Core2 Duo E8400 (-MCP-) speed/max: 2003/3003 MHz
Graphics: Card: NVIDIA GF108 [GeForce GT 430]
Display Server: X.Org 1.19.6 driver: nvidia Resolution: 1920x1080@60.00hz
OpenGL: renderer: GeForce GT 430/PCIe/SSE2 version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 390.87
Network: Card: Marvell 88E8057 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller driver: sky2
Drives: HDD Total Size: 477.8GB (2.6% used)
Weather: Conditions: 23 F (-5 C) - Mostly Cloudy Time: December 22, 8:30 PM EST
Info: Processes: 180 Uptime: 28 min Memory: 167.2/4041.3MB Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 2.3.56
#

Works well so far,
Thanks.
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 1368
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Sun 23 Dec 2018, 01:26    Post subject:  

perdido wrote:
I'm glad peebee keeps it updated but I do feel your pain running from CD and having to generate a new iso (and a new cd) every time you update.


The main problem is that I cannot remaster the BB, because that will make a new md5sum, and updates will not accept the remastered version as an original.

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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3384
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Tue 25 Dec 2018, 19:57    Post subject: iron / chromium / chrome  

iron / chromium / chrome : available in UPup Bionic Beaver 18.05?
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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec 2018, 03:15    Post subject: Re: iron / chromium / chrome  

oui wrote:
iron / chromium / chrome : available in UPup Bionic Beaver 18.05?

Try:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/lxpup/files/Other/LxPupSc/browsers/

or use Internet -> Get Web Browser

No 32-bit chrome & Iron 32-bit is falling behind with no recent updates

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anton77

Joined: 26 Dec 2018
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec 2018, 03:43    Post subject:  

Hello, sorry for my english
There was a problem. I need two languages in the keyboard layout (English and Russian). But, it is not always possible to switch the layout. For some reason, the settings are not saved, or the language layout may disappear from the settings and everything needs to be re-configured.
I use upupbb-18.05 + 22, installed on usb flash 2.0 (16gb) using unetbootin-windows-661. An upupbbsave.4fs file is created to save the data.
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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec 2018, 06:27    Post subject:  

anton77 wrote:
I need two languages in the keyboard layout (English and Russian).

Menu:
Setup -> Mouse/Keyboard Wizard -> Layout for your country

or call chooselayout directly from a terminal

or copy the setxkbmap command generated by chooselayout and use that directly.

or searching the forum there are mentions of a pet fbxkb which could be tried (but try without using your savefile first).

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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Sat 05 Jan 2019, 08:51    Post subject:  

tallboy wrote:
Hi peebee, is it possible to make the updates files as something other than delta files?

@tallboy

Please see:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115088

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