Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Tue 22 May 2018, 21:57
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Which Puppy for my 64-bit Atom netbook?
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 2 [16 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
nbah07

Joined: 28 Apr 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2018, 11:54    Post subject:  Which Puppy for my 64-bit Atom netbook?  

{ESL here}
Greetings,

This is Atom N450 1.66GHz x86_64, 2 GB RAM, Integ. GMA 3150 GPU [8086:a011], Broadcom BCM4312 b/g, RTL8101/2/6E FE, WD 250 GB rpm = netbook.

I was about to reply mikesLr here but he suggested to move to this section. It might not get easy to follow up in the middle of the conversation, as I was just to finish the reply. Give a fast read at those answers, if you willing to catch up, all right?

I had stumbled in events where the lack of 64 bit system ruined the day. The responsive performance is not a real issue to me. I really prefer a overall compatibility; currently developed/supported programs — even if the chosen distro is not a rolling release, as long as I have the (linux) community focused on it [...] As such, most commonly, 32 bit is decaying.
[...] I do prefer firefox. Or tell me a Chrome fork that the team is actually a serious group of reasonable people — privacy aspect — like the ffx team.

I am not looking for LXDE strictly. The said recipe
Quote:
minimal mod kernel (targeted at my hardware) + low footprint GUI (WM+panel) + CLI maintainable: profiled towards battery saving, power mgmt/ suspend (auto after idle X minutes with session lock), blank screen, warm color's -lt 4500K screen, network; + sort of user friendlyness (aka not required to read copious amount of config pages, or enter the boundary of time killers task that one will regret after a while) + for college's web/online studying: smooth video stream (i've read mod kernel and JFS could counter measure: ?) because some content is unwatchable, thus giving some usability, at least from what is expected for this box and possible too; and finally, homework productivity programs;
One fancy feature: hplip's wifi ~ network printer

If I am backed up that official Puppies (slacko 6.3.0 or 5.7.1 or recent xenialpup) — against using a derivative such as LxPup or BionicPup, which I couldn't find, for low budget — and have been instructed generally about what to do, in case it isn't ready baked/out-of-box — like what I saw in slacko notes' known issues, I should be prepared and confident to finish it easily. Since there is pages to read, I ask experienced users first for advice to avoid the time killing issue. There are no restrictions Puppy wise, puplets or not.

There was a general concern about using, the previously mentioned, old system or old kernel, that involves currently topics such as security. Please bear in mind this hardware is not vulnerable to Variants 1, 2 and 3: Yes, it is quite old. Thus narrow the works to make the box particularly safe against malware forms that can really infest it.

About old kernel: He told me kernel 4.1 would suit my hardware together using a differet recent target Puppy. I need more feedback about those target Puppies. Or first try BionicPup, but again, I can't find it.

I don't have aesthetic preference. I do have functionality and, why not, out-of-box (if not, it's ok) as priorities. It can be the visually lousiest WM, albeit runs fast and works = Great!

Have a excelent time!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 951

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2018, 12:25    Post subject:  

It sounds like you've done quite a bit of research on which puppy to use but might want to try a different window manager.

musher0 started a thread, about rewriting .xinitrc to make it easier to use more window managers. You can change the window manager on an existing puppy, if the right puppy for you doesn't have the right window manager.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 1536
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2018, 13:05    Post subject:  

Also an Atom processor user...
Old is good IF

The kernel is also old, but not too old.
k3.2.101 is still with us. It does have security, and is also maintained for non-Atom CPU's. 3.2.101 is much smaller than any 4-series kernel, as the aim is to fix/repair/update that which resides within, as opposed to adding new hardware/software.

The Browser is also old, but not too old.
An equivilent to FF27.0.1 has TLS1.2 with forward-secrecy enabled. This will shortly become the MINIMUM standard with the release of TLS1.3. The problem of the old browser is that IT is not patched by the maker to accept TLS1.3. MHO is that a stone-walled ivory tower exists between developer and end-user, and support for old browsers is iotian if it exists at all. /MHO

IMHO elder puppies should consider a kernel migration from 2-series to at least this smaller k3.2 variant. The browser should be the minimum security of TLS1.2-FS. /MHO

Regards
8Geee

_________________
Linux user #498913

Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2018, 21:54    Post subject: Puppy which supports Broadcom BCM4312 b/g  

Hi again nbah07,

The first thing to appreciate about Puppy Linux is that a Frugal install can run from a folder, co-existing on the same drive/partition as ONE operating system which thinks it needs an entire partition and as many different Puppies as space allows. Rarely will a Puppy need more than 4 Gbs of hard-drive even with the "kitchen sink installed".

That said, in choosing one or the first Puppy, the two most important questions are (1) what do I want it to do, and (2) can it do it on my computer. An operating system is just a vehicle to run applications.

Every Puppy comes with a suite of applications sufficient to meet the casual needs of almost everyone. But for the user with a special interest –engineering design, video creation, planning to run a business-- “the devil is in the details”. A Puppy out-of-the-box can't, but some Puppy can install pets and load SFSes or access repositories to build the applications needed. In that regard, not all Puppies are equal.

In your previous post you indicated that “I would better prefer ,,, minimal pkgs for user friendlyness/web online video studying (college) and usual homework productivity programs. I'd like to say all Puppies should be able to do that OOTB, but I'm not sure what you mean by “web online video studying”. If you mean access on line videos, again all Puppies should be able to, but it may depend on what hurdles your college has thrown in the path of anyone desiring to access its network. That is a question to be resolved after you have a Puppy which can use your wifi adapter. If you mean create online videos – well than you'll want a Puppy into which you can install Top Notch video creation applications and I think (not my area of expertise) Top Notch web-server applications.

I've emphasized should because in the previous post you mentioned migrating from a “distro release version that doesn't support its own' repository hplip's wifi feature.” and on this thread you've identified your wifi adapter as Broadcom BCM4312 b/g.

Not every Puppy will have included or even have the ability to obtain every wifi driver and firmware capable of using every wifi adapter. I have no knowledge of which Puppies do or can support the Broadcam BCM4312 b/g. Hence the title of this post.

You also mentioned “Please bear in mind this hardware ... is quite old.” There's a 'Rule of Thumb' --to be considered but not always valid-- that Older Puppies are more likely to provide support for older drivers and firmware than newer Puppies; and vice-versa. And since your computer is not vulnerable to meltdown and spectre, we can limit security concerns to openssl –current versions can be installed at least into any Puppy published in the last 4 +/- years-- and web-browsers.

[Annoying, but if your builtin wifi adapter is no longer supported consider buying a 'dongle' which is].

Other matters:

You'll find BionicPup here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=989997#989997. Note that it is on the Projects Section which is where the Devs who publish an original version start a thread. Everyone has the right to modify any Puppy and publish his/her version. Those show up on the Derivatives Section.

Fortunately, you prefer firefox to Chrome-and-clones. Fredx181 publishes firefox Quantum portable, the most recent version (59.0.2) today. You'll find it here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=978010#978010. Note its thread is in the Browsers and Internet Section of the Additional Software Forum where you'll find links to download applications and discussions about other applications within that category. Also note the link on that post to Mike Walsh's precise gtk3 pet package. I haven't had a chance to switch over to firefox quantum 59, yet, but can confirm that even though it bares the designation “precise” after installing it in Slacko 5.7.1, fred's firefox Quantum 58 functioned. I expect 59 will also.

Regarding Chrome-and-clones, Mike Walsh also publishes Iron [which removes AFAIK all google-chromes 'call-home' features] for 64-bit operating systems, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=934496#934496. Other Chrome-and-clones for both 32 and 64 bit systems can be found in the Browsers and Internet Section. But the newest versions may not run on Puppies as 'old' as Slacko 5.7.1.

Regarding other security matters = openssl and an up-to-date browser. Running as Spot if possible.

See the Documents Section of the Additional Software Forum for more powerful Office Suites and alternatives to those built in.

Window Managers -- about on the same level as what color coat to put on my dog in the winter. There's lots to choose from -- many can be installed if not "within the box". See the Desktop Section of the Additional Software SubForum.

And glance thru the different Sections of the Additional Software Subforum. Your 'fleshed-out' Puppy will depend on what you feed it. But early on, you'll want to make sure it can fetch.

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2018, 11:32    Post subject: ozsouth's Broadcom wl driver + Sailor's Slacko64  

Hi nbah07,

I don't know if these will work (don't have your computer) but your timing may have been serendipitous. Ozsouth just posted that he's compiled a wl driver for Slacko64 kernel 4.4.126 (by Sailor Enceladus) available from here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990271#990271. This post identifies it as the Broadcom driver. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990272#990272

The Slacko64 ozsouth refers to is available from here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=987322#987322. billtoo's post just after that identifies the kernel as will clicking the link Sailor provided.

Ozsouth has also compiled the 4.9.94 kernel for Slacko 64, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=989954#989954. The driver ozsouth refers to as "wl" can be obtained on the link from here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=989977#989977

These kernels and their drivers should also work with LxpupSc64 18.03. The Lx designation in its name identifies it as using the Lxde Window manager with Lxpanel you prefer.

Reading these posts you'll find mention of the need for an fdrv.sfs. As you probably know, in order for your operating system and applications to communicate with hardware devices such as Wifi adapters, both drivers and firmware are needed. Firmware "applications" can be used in any operating system, regardless of on which operating system they are created. Some newer Puppies include them in the zdrv.sfs which is part of its ISO package. Other Puppies, because firmware is "universal", place them in a fdrv.sfs which can be used with any Puppy. Drivers, on the other hand, have to be compiled against the Kernel under which it will be used. That's where the problem with Broadcom originates: Broadcom doesn't provide drivers for Linux operating systems and Linux distros must compile them for each kernel version. Without Microsoft paying employees to do that, nor the billionaire Shuttleworth's financial support for Ubuntu, small distros like Puppy, depend on a handful of fans, who enjoy the challenge and have the time, to compile drivers.

This rather large fdrv.sfs should suffice. https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B2FRkttfZuG0WjEwVlNXVlE1VjQ&export=download

I don't have the time now to search for a smaller, perhaps prepared for Slacko64, package.

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nbah07

Joined: 28 Apr 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2018, 11:57    Post subject: Ending the track
Subject description: and the solution is...
 

Will that take some life years off? Or a smarter brain?
Clearly I am presented both ends of the spectrum:
First, kernels:
I didn't know such kernels (3.2.101 and 4.1) were still updated securitly unitl I visited kernel.org [...]
See, I don't have a clue what to expect next:
— In Puppy, kernels are named vmlinuz, no? Does it work to get kernel.org's 3.2.101 release and setup it to load a targeted Puppy? Or simply find a Puppy Project/Derivative which consist of a patched/builded version of that kernel? Will it handle or be an issue on instalaltion of programs/pets/pkgs/ports? Why do I have a sense this could ruin one's shift someday? (this is the level of my linux wizardo)
— Same for kernel 4.1, as it was suggested too.
→ I am not against old kernels! The setup, environment and complications are still closed source for me.
Old browser × New browser / Old Kernel on recent Puppy official:
At this point, I should ask what will be 'more' trouble-free?

We have here the best of the worlds = OPTIONS! that's awesome. But, like they say, i've been given the fish, but have no fishing knowledge to thrive. Ok, we have to distort the end result a little bit, because there is no meaning in reading all the related content to what was presented, which is such a steep high learning curve (time killing issue), and thus, conclude with a reasonable option, whatever is the result of this process. Question remains, well, I feel not giving much details so we can reach a common stand point. So how to finish this task? [...] and finally proceed the install and take care of "my business".

mikesLr, e-Learn. I study on virtual platform of the college which I attend to. There are videos, presentations, documents, books, closed scientific platform articles, resources for all tastes. Kind of a undergraduate degree on a environment such as coursera. [spoiler][hidden](which is http downloadable and by believing in the principles of "share information" motto, ideas accepted over how to start sharing it/ scrap more of the relevant stuff and whatever).[/hidden][/spoiler]

I would like to mention before this might be going the wrong direction, the instance of care is readily understandable; The support of the community and itself, every blog I read, it is what is remembered all times. I am grateful for all support.
Have a great time!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2018, 19:59    Post subject: Understanding & Changing Kernels  

Hi again nbah07,

I found another, smaller, fdrv.sfs you might be able to use from here, http://smokey01.com/peebee/slackocurrent/drv-sfs/.

I know most people, especially newbies, just want an operating system they can install and run. Unfortunately, your computer uses a Broadcom chip as wireless adapter. If you want someone to blame, blame Microsoft for so dominating the pc market that computer manufacturers can ignore alternative operating systems. But regretfully, to get your computer to do what you want, you'll have to “open the black box and examine its mysteries”. Well, think of it this way. You're young and all knowledge you acquire may someday have value.

Maybe the following will help to clear up some of the mystery. First off, you were correct, vmlinuz is the kernel. Starting about six years ago (with Saluki) Devs began to employ a modular style of construction. Remember, Puppy is designed to function as a Frugal Install and, as such, "runs-in-RAM", building at bootup in RAM its operating system and overlaying in that system components from various squashed (compressed) files called SFSes --squashed file systems. As a practical matter, today's Puppies can make use of an almost unlimited number of SFSes.

When a Puppy boots, the first thing it does (I think) is copy into RAM the Initial RAM Disk -- the initrd found in the ISO.
Then it copies the kernel, vmlinuz. In older Puppies, vmlinuz included both drivers and firmware. They have since been separated out into either a combined zdrv.sfs or a zdrv.sfs (consisting of hardware drivers) and a fdrv.sfs consisting of firmware.
Then it copies into RAM parts* of the applications the dev considered many users would want.
[* Not everything in an SFS is copied into RAM. What Puppies do is create links (inodes) in RAM pointing to what remains on the storage media. There are boot arguments which can over-ride the default behavior, copying into RAM everything or limiting what gets copied to bare-essentials]. These applications are in a file with a name which takes this form: puppy_name-of_version-number.sfs. For example, puppy_slacko64_6.9.9.9.sfs.
Some devs include in the ISO a package of additional software, an adrv.sfs. Again using Slacko64 as an example, it has an additional software sfs named adrv_slacko64_6.9.9.9.sfs. My understanding of adrv.sfs is that it is not necessary for the proper functioning of the Puppy. If you don't want to use the applications it contains, you can simply delete it, or move it where during bootup it won't be found.

The user can add to the SFSes a Puppy will use in constructing itself in RAM. You can create a SaveFile or Folder* which will preserve your settings and the additional software you install. If you use a SaveFile or Folder, when its files are copied into RAM they will have priority over any conflicting file. Many applications are packaged as SFSes, especially large one like libre-office, or frequently updated ones like firefox and google-chrome. [Essentially, a SaveFolder is a SaveFile which hasn't been compressed --'though I don't really know what gyro, its creator, did to get Puppies to work with SaveFolders].

I've seen mention of a ydrv.sfs and think it's used for patching. At any rate, disregarding ydrv.sfs and the initial RAM Disk, the modules of an ISO fall into two categories:

puppy_name-of_version-number.sfs and adrv_name-of_version-number.sfs -- the application software. These are what gives a particular Puppy its character and 'look and feel'.
vmlinuz, zdrv and fdrv -- the "Engine".

With some limitations the "Engine" can be used with the software packages of any Puppy. The limitations are (1) 32-bit Engine can't be used with 64-bit applications [while, if your computer can support a 64-bit operating system a 64-bit Engine can be used with 32-bit applications; and (2) If your computer can't use a pae kernel [one which can access more than 4 Gbs of RAM] even if 'forcepae' is included as a boot argument, then a nopae kernel has to be used.

Kernels not built for Puppies can NOT be used. They have not been compiled to include the mechanisms by which a Puppy combines entire file systems (SFSes) into its “merged file-system in RAM”.

As mentioned before, firmware, whether included in the zdrv.sfs or packaged separately as an fdrv.sfs, although part of the operating system, is not specific to any kernel. However, in order to be copied into RAM at bootup [I think because of instructions in the Initrd] all SFSes –whether part of the operating system or the software packages provided by the dev-- must bare the same Puppy version name and number.

Kernel packages (published separately from ISOs) usually consist of two files: One named vmlinux, the other kernel-modules (drivers and maybe firmware) both followed by a suffix of the kernel number and of the Puppy they were originally compiled for; for example, kernel-modules.sfs-4.9.77-xenialpup64 and vmlinuz-4.9.77-xenialpup64. Regardless of other limitations, the SFSes of the Engine have to be renamed to include the version name and number, while the suffix of the vmlinuz would have to be deleted. In other words, if I wanted to use these with the puppy_slacko64_6.9.9.9.sfs applications, I would have to rename vmlinuz-4.9.77-xenialpup64 to just vmlinuz, and rename kernel-modules.sfs-4.9.77-xenialpup64 as zdrv_slacko64_6.9.9.9.sfs.

Somewhere on the Forum is a pet which will do the renaming for you. But, as renaming involves only Right-clicking a file, selecting "Rename" and typing in the new name, I haven't used it and don't know its limitations, if any.

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nbah07

Joined: 28 Apr 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2018, 21:59    Post subject: thread's interaction gets familiar
Subject description: time killing? never heard of...
 

Hello,
Quote:
Before anything else, there will be a application requirement:
https://seg.bb.com.br/duvidas.html (Linux> Item 4)
Both 32 / 64 bit distros
Ubuntu (14.04 / 16.04), Mint (17.3 / 18.1), Debian (8.7 / 9.1.0)
Deps: openssl, dbus, libdbus, libdbus-1-3, libnss3, libnss3-tools, libcurl3, libssl1.0.0;
There are Fedora and openSUSE versions too, but I didn't see Puplets compatible with those.

Is it possible to port this? ↑

I've been reading Puppy Projects/Derivatives threads[...] based on reviews from users, atom/single core and kernel < 4.1 have more visible rates in favor, whereas upward kernels are represented with lethargic performance comments.
musher0's xenialPup k4.1 will have a go with this netbook. I had to pick one already — we shall attain to our principles, shouldn't we?
This will be short[...] now starts deploy time.
Have a great time.

Last edited by nbah07 on Sun 20 May 2018, 06:38; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nbah07

Joined: 28 Apr 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 14:36    Post subject: request script support
Subject description: thou shall not bump!
 

Hello,
This file installs a (some?), hurrghum [s]suspicious[/s], software for, hurrghum [s]stealing[/s], managing my earned and own money account in a [s]other's piggy[/s] bank which I require for my "inside Matrix business". I believe it has to be ported? No idea how to do it, or if would actually work in kennel distros.
disclaimer: I am doing no illegal stuff, 'carding' or harm intentioned actions. Working out some good ice breakage all the way through, is it OK?
[spoiler] [hidden] [s] this is a imp BB code, isn't it? [/s] [/hidden] [/spoiler]
.run link redirected to developer's main site. (sorry about that, more on 20/May post)

Last edited by nbah07 on Sun 20 May 2018, 06:38; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 21:29    Post subject:  

A famous Gallagher and Shean vaudeville skit ran like this:

Patient, raising his arm over his head, "Doctor, Doctor, it hurts when I do dis."
Doctor: "Don't do dat." Exclamation

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nbah07

Joined: 28 Apr 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue 08 May 2018, 12:02    Post subject: always expect the best from puppy
Subject description: people are the greatest board's wealth
 

Hello mikesLr,
You are a fine man mister Mike.
I prefer to be stole in the comfort of my home, against being larcenized (murder following theft; couldn't find the english word) while leaving the bank. This is plainest keyboard typing as I can get, since there is some lack of citing skills to make it easier on the eyes.
But I do intend to move my fundings to new wave of financial startups — called(?) digital bank accounts, less fees, triggered for investments "out of the box", maybe these new generation enterpreneurs have a lower moral corruption set.
In the meantime, my question likes an answer: can this be setup on Puppy(lets)?
.run link redirected to developer's main site. (sorry about that, more on 20/May post)

Last edited by nbah07 on Sun 20 May 2018, 06:35; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nbah07

Joined: 28 Apr 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2018, 09:06    Post subject: I am your worse bump!
Subject description: going on questio-ton
 

could this be setup on Puppy(lets)?
.run link redirected to developer's main site. (sorry about that, more on 20/May post)

Last edited by nbah07 on Sun 20 May 2018, 06:35; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 1536
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2018, 14:03    Post subject:  

This particular puppy Slacko5.7-woofCE has a lot of what you may need. The browser is FF28 so security is OK if you configure it.


PS: try not to link run files, OK?

Regards
8Geee

_________________
Linux user #498913

Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 12871
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2018, 16:23    Post subject:  

Nbah07, that's 3 or 4 times you've posted a link in this forum to what you say is a suspicious-looking program. I doubt that anyone in this forum knows what will happen if they click on the link, and we'd rather not find out the hard way. Please don't post that link again. Thank you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 3695
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2018, 18:06    Post subject:  

@ NBah07:-

I agree with 8Geee and Flash. Posting links to .run files is NOT the best way to endear yourself to the rest of the Puppy community.

Not everybody has the nous to inspect links first before clicking on them. Particularly if they're recent refugees from Windoze.....where clicking on absolutely everything is second nature to many.

Please don't continue to do this. Staff don't make a habit of banning members unnecessarily.....but there are limits.


Mike. Shocked Rolling Eyes

_________________
MY PUPPY PACKAGES | 'Thanks' are always appreciated!
--------------------------------------

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 2 [16 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0762s ][ Queries: 11 (0.0059s) ][ GZIP on ]