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 Forum index » Off-Topic Area » Programming
how much of puppy requires dbus?
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 08:43    Post subject:  how much of puppy requires dbus?
Subject description: sorry thats a stupid question, i will try to explain
 

so the last time i used puppy, it was puppy tahr-- i havent tried xenial and whether this is answered about tahr or answered about xenial, thats fine. even if the answer isnt the same-- either way.

dbus is in a lot of stuff now, its even in the kate text editor (im a little surprised) but puppy is usually light on extras because it doesnt need them.)

i can check, but im guessing puppy (tahr, xenial) uses dbus. if not, cool! if so: i figured, but how much stuff in puppy actually uses it? if you were trying to remove dbus from puppy, would it be really difficult?

i asked this in the programming section as im pretty sure this is where people will have the answer.

thanks.
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Keef


Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 904
Location: Staffordshire

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 13:31    Post subject:  

Running a reverse ldd on Radky's dpup Stretch, reveals 69!
Code:
/usr/bin/cancel
/usr/bin/compton
/usr/bin/cupstestdsc
/usr/bin/cupstestppd
/usr/bin/dbus-monitor
/usr/bin/dbus-send
/usr/bin/dbus-uuidgen
/usr/bin/directomatic
/usr/bin/dunst
/usr/bin/ffmpeg
/usr/bin/ffplay
/usr/bin/ffprobe
/usr/bin/ffserver
/usr/bin/foomatic-rip
/usr/bin/galculator
/usr/bin/gconf-merge-tree
/usr/bin/gconftool
/usr/bin/gconftool-2
/usr/bin/ghostscript
/usr/bin/gnome-alsamixer-bin
/usr/bin/gs
/usr/bin/gsc
/usr/bin/gsettings-data-convert
/usr/bin/gsx
/usr/bin/gtklp
/usr/bin/gtklpq
/usr/bin/hexchat
/usr/bin/lp
/usr/bin/lpoptions
/usr/bin/lpq
/usr/bin/lpr
/usr/bin/lprm
/usr/bin/lpstat
/usr/bin/mhwaveedit
/usr/bin/mplayer
/usr/bin/mpv
/usr/bin/net
/usr/bin/pcmanfm
/usr/bin/planner
/usr/bin/pnmixer
/usr/bin/ppdc
/usr/bin/ppdhtml
/usr/bin/ppdi
/usr/bin/ppdmerge
/usr/bin/ppdpo
/usr/bin/rsvg-view-3
/usr/bin/smbstatus
/usr/bin/uget-gtk
/usr/bin/dbus-binding-tool
/usr/bin/glade
/usr/bin/glade-previewer
/sbin/wpa_supplicant
/usr/sbin/accept
/usr/sbin/cupsaccept
/usr/sbin/cupsaddsmb
/usr/sbin/cupsctl
/usr/sbin/cupsd
/usr/sbin/cupsdisable
/usr/sbin/cupsenable
/usr/sbin/cupsfilter
/usr/sbin/cupsreject
/usr/sbin/lpadmin
/usr/sbin/lpc
/usr/sbin/lpdomatic
/usr/sbin/lpinfo
/usr/sbin/lpmove
/usr/sbin/reject
/usr/sbin/smbd
/usr/games/xsoldier


Don't have tahr or xenial installed, but imagine they may be similar.
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1103

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 14:08    Post subject:  

If you don't mind using an older version of puppylinux, Warry doesn't have it. Also check to see if some of the versions of Quirky kept it out.
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 14:10    Post subject:  

thats actually well on our way to a great answer, thank you-- im far less shocked that a dpup (although im a fan of dpup) has dbus because debian is very heavily infested with superfluous ipc.

the saving grace really might be woof-ce and tahr or xenial here. i do totally understand that tahr is ubuntu and ubuntu is from debian.

the difference (if any at all) is the process tahr goes through as opposed to the process dpup goes through. for whatever reason, im still hoping that dpup is less conservative and more likely to have dbus. but at this point i might just open up tahr and check it out-- in the next day or two. thank you.

s243a wrote:
If you don't mind using an older version of puppylinux, Warry doesn't have it.


thank you, thats progress!
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 14:22    Post subject:  

Hi nosystemdthanks,

Only Pup I know of would be as mentioned the old Wary series based on T2 packages there was a Puppy package you could install called nobus which replaced dbus by one of our forum members who has long gone may be someone can enlighten??
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 14:55    Post subject:  

in fairness to all the helpful people who chimed in (thank you) heres the results from tahr (i presume with good reason that its even worse in xenial...)

i was hoping that woof cleaned this all out, but it was purely a guess on my part. its not like woof is *adding* this stuff. im sure it would be removed if that were the decision that made the best sense.

my first distro (of my own) was based on puppy, and the indirect result of asking questions just like this one. today, i found out that puppy tahr (while free of systemd) still had some .service files. i have yet to figure out exactly why machines without systemd even need .service files, but puppy is not alone in this. (heck, the setup im using now has .service files.)

puppy tahr (32 bit)

Code:
    27   /etc/dbus-1
    28   /etc/dbus-1/session.conf
    29   /etc/dbus-1/system.conf
    30   /etc/dbus-1/system.d

    47   /lib/libdbus-1.so.3
    48   /lib/libdbus-1.so.3.7.6

    54   /opt/palemoon/components/libdbusservice.so
    69   /root/.packages/builtin_files/dbus-bin
    70   /root/.packages/builtin_files/dbus-glib
    71   /root/.packages/builtin_files/dbus-libs
    76   /root/.packages/builtin_files/libdbusmenu

    91   /usr/bin/dbus-cleanup-sockets
    92   /usr/bin/dbus-daemon
    93   /usr/bin/dbus-launch
    94   /usr/bin/dbus-monitor
    95   /usr/bin/dbus-send
    96   /usr/bin/dbus-uuidgen

   100   /usr/bin/gdbus
   113   /usr/bin/qdbus
   114   /usr/bin/qdbuscpp2xml
   115   /usr/bin/qdbusviewer
   116   /usr/bin/qdbusxml2cpp

   242   /usr/lib/libdbus-1.so
   243   /usr/lib/libdbus-glib-1.so
   244   /usr/lib/libdbus-glib-1.so.2
   245   /usr/lib/libdbus-glib-1.so.2.2.2
   246   /usr/lib/libdbusmenu-glib.so.4
   247   /usr/lib/libdbusmenu-glib.so.4.0.12
   248   /usr/lib/libdbusmenu-gtk.so.4
   249   /usr/lib/libdbusmenu-gtk.so.4.0.12
   251   /usr/lib/libdconf-dbus-1.so.0
   252   /usr/lib/libdconf-dbus-1.so.0.0.0

   306   /usr/lib/qt4/bin/qdbus
   309   /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/script/libqtscriptdbus.so

   314   /usr/lib/vlc/plugins/control/libdbus_plugin.so
   315   /usr/lib/vlc/plugins/misc/libdbus_screensaver_plugin.so
   317   /usr/libexec/dbus-1
   318   /usr/libexec/dbus-daemon-launch-helper
   321   /usr/sbin/cdburner-wizard

   326   /usr/share/dbus-1
   327   /usr/share/dbus-1/services
   328   /usr/share/dbus-1/services/ca.desrt.dconf.service
   329   /usr/share/dbus-1/services/gnome-vfs-daemon.service
   330   /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.gnome.GConf.service
   331   /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.hexchat.service.service
   332   /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.knopwob.dunst.service
   333   /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services
   334   /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/fi.epitest.hostap.WPASupplicant.service
   335   /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/fi.w1.wpa_supplicant1.service

   353   /usr/share/themes/oxygen-gtk/gtk-3.0/special-icons/standardbutton-closetab-16.png
   354   /usr/share/themes/oxygen-gtk/gtk-3.0/special-icons/standardbutton-closetab-down-16.png
   355   /usr/share/themes/oxygen-gtk/gtk-3.0/special-icons/standardbutton-closetab-hover-16.png

   358   /var/lib/dbus
   360   /var/run/dbus
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 994
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 15:03    Post subject:  

Lucid 5.2.8.7
Code:
: 21:00 ~ ; db
dbus-binding-tool     dbus-launch           dbus-uuidgen
dbus-cleanup-sockets  dbus-monitor          dbwrap_tool
dbus-daemon           dbus-send             
: 21:00 ~ ; db


Search by pfind: 26 entries
Code:
/etc/dbus-1
/opt/palemoon/components/libdbusservice.so
/root/.dbus
/root/.packages/builtin_files/dbus
/root/.packages/builtin_files/dbus-glib
/usr/bin/dbus-binding-tool
/usr/bin/dbus-cleanup-sockets
/usr/bin/dbus-daemon
/usr/bin/dbus-launch
/usr/bin/dbus-monitor
/usr/bin/dbus-send
/usr/bin/dbus-uuidgen
/usr/include/audacious/dbus.h
/usr/include/audacious/dbus-service.h
/usr/lib/cups/notifier/dbus
/usr/libexec/dbus-1
/usr/libexec/dbus-daemon-launch-helper
/usr/lib/gio/modules/libgvfsdbus.so
/usr/lib/libdbus-1.so.3
/usr/lib/libdbus-1.so.3.4.0
/usr/lib/libdbus-glib-1.so.2
/usr/lib/libdbus-glib-1.so.2.1.0
/usr/share/dbus-1
/usr/share/doc/gnome-mplayer/dbus.txt
/var/lib/dbus
/var/run/dbus


Audacious is my personal addition, I don't know if that 'contaminated' Lucid. But in good, old Cups?

_________________
True freedom is a live Puppy on a multisession CD/DVD.
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 15:19    Post subject:  

oh yeah you should expect dbus whenever theres cups, yes.

i wouldnt say that dbus is really avoidable when cups is installed, and cups isnt the only thing like that. kde and gnome certainly need dbus (i believe thats what it was made for originally.)

you can find a list of stuff thats likely to require dbus here: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/DbusProjects/

i dont believe this will be of real concern to any puppy user. its just something im thinking about.

thanks again. fwiw ive got the information i needed, if someone wants to discuss this further i have no problem with that, i cant promise it will be interesting.
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anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 1020

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 17:09    Post subject:  

Posting from self-built Devuan:
Code:
root@debian:# apt-get purge dbus systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Package 'dbus' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd' is not installed, so not removed
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 345 not upgraded.
root@debian:#
However, I must disappoint some of you folks - I am very much pro systemd and dislike the ideological BS behind the Devuan/anti systemd movement. But I do like the Devuan forum, their knowledgeable team and the technical stuff they discuss.
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drunkjedi


Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 897

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2018, 22:44    Post subject:  

I am going Off-topic somewhat.
I want to check dbus use in Fatdog, But...
Keef wrote:
Running a reverse ldd on Radky's dpup Stretch, reveals 69!
How do you reverse ldd???

I searched on web, not found much.
On one newsgroup someone gave a tcl script, I think it runs ldd on all executables or something....
Code:
#!/usr/bin/tclsh

set bins {}
foreach p [split $::env(PATH) :] {
lappend bins [file join $p *]
}

foreach f [eval [list glob -nocomplain] $bins] {
if {[catch {exec ldd $f | grep -q [lindex $argv 0]}]} {continue}
puts $f
}
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4823
Location: Kingwood, TX

PostPosted: Tue 08 May 2018, 00:47    Post subject:  

anikin wrote:
Posting from self-built Devuan:
Code:
root@debian:# apt-get purge dbus systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Package 'dbus' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd' is not installed, so not removed
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 345 not upgraded.
root@debian:#
However, I must disappoint some of you folks - I am very much pro systemd and dislike the ideological BS behind the Devuan/anti systemd movement. But I do like the Devuan forum, their knowledgeable team and the technical stuff they discuss.
most of the anti systemd movement is more about not introducing a complex single point of failure from a group and lead developer known to push shitty products before they are working (pulseaudio) or breaking working projects (gnome/gtk3) to their own ends (redhat). Systemd keeps sucking in more and more stable projects and making them unstable for no useful purpose.

@drunkjedi I have posted reverse dependency code on here somewhere... It was less than 10 lines of code, but think you can just grep the installed package database for "+dbus" ... But that does packages, not individual binaries and libraries

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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Tue 08 May 2018, 01:40    Post subject:  

anikin: thats fantastic!

reverse ldd: ldd is less reliable than finding actual dbus files, it was actually this forum where i found out how misleading ldd can be sometimes. i was trying to use it to map deps in packages.
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Keef


Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 904
Location: Staffordshire

PostPosted: Tue 08 May 2018, 02:26    Post subject:  

drunkjedi

The pet I used was this:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=64987&sid=138564ba5ccda4cd7cd9351d67f3998f
Although it was something by technosaurus that I had in mind.
EDIT: Might have been this:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76827

Last edited by Keef on Tue 08 May 2018, 03:08; edited 1 time in total
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 887
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Tue 08 May 2018, 02:45    Post subject:  

Well, in my life I've programmed many an IPC facility in C and having a standardized communication bus removes the horrendous inefficiency and complexity and is very much a forward development IMO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Bus

Similarly, the old init process is painfully serial and slow - whether systemd approach is any good or not I cannot say since I've never studied it, but I'm quite convinced the idea is sound. Most developers make technical blunders regularly - seems to me any issues with pulseaudio or systemd would be more a case of them being adopted too early though I suspect such decisions would not be taken lightly no matter if a developer pushed their ideas or not. I have heard pulseaudio has settled down in terms of stability now and certainly makes a lot possible that various alsa processes never could (my goodness even precord could have a VU record meter via pulseaudio facilities without having to muck around with C programming into alsa functions).

I think it is all more a matter of old dogs not liking learning new tricks. We all know init system for donkey years and can't be bothered learning the ins and outs of systemd. But in time all this will be forgotten because if you can't beat it you eventually have to join it. Good to have all these possibilities available at least, otherwise how can you learn what you will eventually have to? In all realism.

wiak
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Tue 08 May 2018, 03:03    Post subject:  

@nosystemdthanks you may find this of interest.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=80293&start=1
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