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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
New sub-forum for official Puppylinux releases
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 2976

PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 05:12    Post subject:  New sub-forum for official Puppylinux releases  

Being dissociated a bit (more) from puppy and the forum I can see the concerns expressed by BK and others.
So, I was wondering how difficult would it be to open a new forum sub-topic, maybe at the top of “House Training”, entitled “Official Puppylinux Releases” to include announcements, discussions, bugs and solutions about older, current and upcoming woof-ce-build puppy releases only.
NOTE: To avoid misunderstanding, "official releases" are the ones that can be found in ibiblio.org as these are the releases that all sources, outside this forum, point to when they refer to "puppylinux" and are the ones that a newcomer will likely have tried.

I would guess 2-3 threads per release max. One leading to the release starting from the betas and one after the release for bugs updates etc.
Relevant threads for wary/racy and onwards could be moved there to set the tone.

Such a subforum should be regulated a bit more to move misspleced new topics to their proper subforum so will not become like other subforums where you find topics from bug reports and feature requests to future development of other distros.

Such a subforum will facilitate newcomer orientation that get to puppy from other avenues and are not forum-regulars that might otherwise get confused by the polyphony.
It might also facilitate developers in identifying issues without a lot of scavenging, minimizing destruction, while keeping all the existing subforums should not affecting the forum diversity.

Hopefully such an addition will not be too complicated or somehow problematic.

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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 09:56    Post subject:  

Wouldn't that be what should be in "Puppy Projects" and in "Puppy Derivatives" now?
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 2976

PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 11:51    Post subject:  

foxpup wrote:
Wouldn't that be what should be in "Puppy Projects" and in "Puppy Derivatives" now?

Not really.
Although there are many threads in "puppy projects" and "puppy derivatives" that should be in other subforums, the above subforums are (rightly) NOT for official releases only. Lately there are hardly for puppy-related, but rather puppy-inspired, puppy-like or even not-puppy projects. And that's fine!
murga-linux.com/puppy/ hosts the puppylinux forum but not ONLY the puppylinux forum.

The "problem" I see, and this new subforum might address, is that there are 1000+ threads in "projects" and 2000+ in "derivatives" and hardly 1% of those are for the official puppies, making it harder to navigate and find the relevant info.

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hamoudoudou

Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 1467
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 12:00    Post subject: house training section  

for me Puppy Projects equals Official Puppy projects.
Personal projects for home or training computing in house training section , where we can help people needing testers..
Derivatives are Puppy projects for local needs, public local needs, not for one guy amusement. not wanting to support LTS or unable to do it..
Russian, hungarian, spanish have fora to give help, not only to be helped.. there are derivatives.. Pubjibaros, And Puppies HU are derivatives, their goal are a communauty, not a person

Last edited by hamoudoudou on Wed 30 May 2018, 12:12; edited 2 times in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11012
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 12:06    Post subject:  

It would be a good idea.
I like it!
Only problem I see is who can post a new topic.
New topics need to be limited to only the developer of a new official Puppy version.
If anyone else wants to post something.
They can post to the specific topic, for that specific, official Puppy version.

As the forum is now.
Anyone can start a new topic, anyplace in the forum.
That is how a lot of stuff gets into sections of the forum, they should not be posted in.

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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 13:08    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
the above subforums are (rightly) NOT for [i]official releases only ... and hardly 1% of those are for the official puppies, making it harder to navigate and find the relevant info.
Okay, I get it. Very good idea!
It could bundle efforts a little within Puppy Community and make Puppy easier to understand to the outside-Puppy world.
Yet, I do like the diversity and wealth of Puppy projects and derivatives very much.
hamoudoudou wrote:
Derivatives are Puppy projects for local needs
I considered localised Puppies as regular Puppy projects. I considered the Dogs, Fatdog, Quirky, Easy as Puppy derivatives.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 2976

PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 13:28    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Only problem I see is who can post a new topic
The way I see it there are 2 practical issues with such a subforum.
a) John Murga should should open it, as my understanding is that only he can do these kind of changes on this site.
ie he should find it useful and get the time to implement the addition.
The forum layout is unchanged the last 9 years, so clearly changes do not come easy.
b) Have someone administer that subforum willing to move not fitting threads out and inevitably upset some people that will think otherwise. This would be easy for puppies already "christen" as official in puppylinux.com but what about betas that may or may not make it to "official" (say, Radky's Dpup... )? I just hope that in these cases the builder will have a clear idea which way (s)he may want to go with this.

Let's see about (a) first, though...

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 13:38    Post subject:  

Quote:
Q: What is an official Puppy Linux distribution?
A: It must meet two conditions. 1) It must be built using Woof-CE. 2) It must be endorsed as “official” by the Puppy Master.

Now, does Puppy really now have an active Puppy Master???????
01micko never seems to be active in Puppy anymore and he is suppose to be the Puppy Master!

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 14:14    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Quote:
Q: What is an official Puppy Linux distribution?
A: It must meet two conditions. 1) It must be built using Woof-CE. 2) It must be endorsed as “official” by the Puppy Master.

Now, does Puppy really now have an active Puppy Master???????
01micko never seems to be active in Puppy anymore and he is suppose to be the Puppy Master!


I think that this (how active the puppy master is) is a different subject and I believe totally unrelated to this thread!
Just point to any official puppy that was delayed more than a couple of days because Mick, BK or any "master" had limited presence or involvement.
I'm sure if PB decides to make bionic or lxpupsc a stable final, instead of a rolling release will become "official" fast. I would think the same if Radky ever folds his mods back to woof.

However, if you want to open a thread about "puppy master" or Mick specifically, go ahead, but doing it here will just derail any slim chances that the "official" subforum will materialise.

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 728

PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 15:36    Post subject:  

i apologize for adding my 2 cents since i am a terrible offender

but what about a thread up at the top

that deals with an intro official puppy for newcomers

the gurus could get together and decide which one to promote

it really only takes a recommendation from the gurus

not an official seal

once people try the intro puppy

they will of course realize puppy's greatness

and they can then try other puppies and their inspired offspring

wander
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 19:03    Post subject:  

If you are asking to make a section for only official Puppies.

The official requirement is important to understand.

This is the official requirement.
Quote:
Q: What is an official Puppy Linux distribution?
A: It must meet two conditions. 1) It must be built using Woof-CE.
2) It must be endorsed as “official” by the Puppy Master.

http://puppylinux.com/faq.html

Quote:
Just point to any official puppy that was delayed more than a couple of days because Mick, BK or any "master" had limited presence or involvement.

All of them! Shocked

Nothing is named an official version until it gets released as the final release.
Up until release, it is something to consider for official status. It may never get finished.
I helped to work on Xenialpup for over a year before it got official Puppy status.
Quote:
endorsed as “official” by the Puppy Master.


Not as cut and dry as you may think it is!

I guess the rules could be changed to just anything made using Woof-CE.

Not a lot of official Puppies shown on the official download web page.
http://puppylinux.com/

Maybe it should be these Puppies?
http://puppylinux.com/download.html

Note:
BK is not active in Puppy anymore.
He turned all control over to 01micko!

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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1123

PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 20:09    Post subject:  

The forum had needed some reorganization for some time. If it is going to be done, then there should be a plan to make it well organized and lasting.

Although this has obviously gotten some folks bent out of shape, I am not looking at it from that perspective. I am looking at it from the perspective of making things well organized and easy to find, especially for newbies.

I think there really need to be 4 categories, each decreasing in "strictness."

1. Official, Final Puppies. These would strictly be the ones declared final and Mick01 puts on the puppy.com website. These http://puppylinux.com/download.html

2. Development version Official Puppy candidates - These would be Puppies that might be Official, Final Puppies once they are "finished". They would be built directly with woof-CE (not necessarily every version, but mostly) and where changes are being put back upstream into woof-CE. It wouldn't include "Puplets" made by remastering or other non-woof-CE configuration.

3. Puplets - These are distros made by remastering a woof-CE puppy, from a custom woof-CE pup that for some reason doesn't make the cut to be official, or other distros created directly from another Puppy. I don't think there is a need to divide them into Develipment and Final, but you could

4. Dogs - Puppy inspired non-woof-CE distros --> All the others. Fatdog, Debian & Ubuntu Dogs, Barry's quirky, easy, the Tiny Core ones, and any others I've missed, and any other Puppyish (loosely applied) linux Distro that doesn't fit into the first 3 categories.

I think this level of reorganization would put everything in the place it needs to be so that someone coming into the forum can find what they want with a lot less frustration than they probably experience now.

A place for everything and everything in its place.

edit: fix wolf typo

Last edited by dancytron on Wed 30 May 2018, 23:57; edited 1 time in total
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 2765
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PostPosted: Wed 30 May 2018, 23:28    Post subject:  

dancytron wrote:

1. Official, Final Puppies. These would strictly be the ones declared final and Mick01 puts on the puppy.com website. These http://puppylinux.com/download.html

There seems to be some issues with the above website. Maybe 01micko is working on it.

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12683
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 31 May 2018, 01:18    Post subject:  

Hello BarryK, mavrothal and all.

It sounds as though dancytron has a plan for us. Smile

However, any reorganization of these or any other sub-forums will fail if
there is no manpower to enforce it -- in the form of moderators with a
fine-tuned judgment.

Given the free-for-all philosophy of this forum and its lack of available
manpower (however competent the current available manpower is --
there are not enough of them; plus, the moderators that have left have
not been replaced), it might be better IMO to apply dancytron's plan on a
new forum specifically created for it. To keep any parasites, ignoramus,
real and borderline spammers, and similar vermine, out.

If I may recommend anything on this subject:
Do it right off the bat -- start a new forum with a dedicated and
knowledgeable moderator -- not sub-forums here.

If you wait for a mutiny to correct things because moderation has been
lax or because there was none to speak of, like the situation we had on
the French side of this forum -- and in our case, as luck would have it, we
had to wait eons -- it is already too late, however worthy the rebellion.

Damage will have been done in that public's mind (in our case the French-
speaking Puppyists) to the Puppy name (and to the name of any Puppy-
related distros). Not to mention that talented developers want their talent
recognized -- if not even a timid "thank you" is coming, and if they are
wrongly criticized, they leave and go where they are appreciated -- that's
human nature.

Conversely, from the users' point of view, I think it is safe to say that the
general public is an honest but simple animal: it will NOT differentiate
between too loose a forum and a tightly-run distro. It will conclude that
the distro is not worth it (even if untrue) if its (sub-)forums are too lax. It
will throw the baby out with the bathwater

My 2 cents, FWIW, sorry for the longish novelette this post has become,
and similar considerations.

BFN.

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mfb

Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Thu 31 May 2018, 03:40    Post subject:  

Quote:
Our users have posted a total of 981799 articles


A closed thread with a few short links to any Official versions would provide an easily implemented and sensible answer.

musher0 gets little right - even his signature - it's not Ockham from England - it's Punch from Ireland.

At least three times musher0 threatened to start another Forum, sometimes saying that Flash is a clueless and useless moderator because Flash doesn't speak French.

Well, it's musher0 who's clueless, careless and virtually useless and that's easily demonstrated - last time I looked the new French Forum had reached a total of 7 (seven) members.

ADDENDUM (1) on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 06:48 :

The oracle wrote:

Quote:
...start a new forum with a dedicated and knowledgeable moderator...

So, this Forum isn’t fit-for-purpose, Flash is not dedicated and since Flash is not knowledgeable he is clueless, but the word “clueless” is unacceptable – though it’s fine to say he’s an “ignoramus”

The oracle may perform its usual act and lie on the floor and kick and scream, but, despite countless rehearsals, he doesn’t lie well.

The oracle is certainly fired with enthusiasm and he probably will be. Read, with due gratitude (two pages on), his thanks to John Murga.
-----------------------------------

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Last edited by mfb on Tue 05 Jun 2018, 07:13; edited 2 times in total
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