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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
How to boot ISO file directly (not from CD)?
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2582
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug 2018, 04:02    Post subject:  How to boot ISO file directly (not from CD)?  

I need some confirmation here. Some programs can boot puppy directly from the ISO file. Generally (or in earlier days), the procedure would be to make an ISO which would then be burnt to CD. The bootloader would be isolinux.bin and the default configuration file would have pmedia=CD. What I want to know is would this default setting work when using one of these programs to boot from ISO directly (not CD) OR if the configuration file will have to be changed to indicate different media?
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11016
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug 2018, 05:00    Post subject:  

pmedia=cd is just going to control how the Puppy boot process adjusts to the device the install is on.
The basic difference is Puppy will boot as if it is installed on a CD.

There are some specific ways it loads into memory and how it searches for the save, but they do not have an affect on basic boot-up.
It will still boot to a good working Puppy.

The programs you are talking about, that will boot from an iso, are not going to know about the different pmedia= options Puppy can use.
The pmedia= is not going to be changed by them.

Puppy specific installers and Grub4dos boot loader, do know how to make the change of pmedia= to reflect what device Puppy is booting from.

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watchdog

Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 1659
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug 2018, 05:19    Post subject:  

I often boot puppy's isos by grub2 and I can access the frugal installations on atahd or usbhd. Example:

Code:
menuentry "Wary 5.5 ISO" {
set root=(hd0,1)
loopback loop /wary-5.5.iso
linux (loop)/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd psubdir=wary55 pfix=fsck
initrd (loop)/initrd.gz
}
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2582
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug 2018, 05:27    Post subject:  

So, these iso booter programs will be able to boot the ISO even if the media is stipulated as CD? Anyways - I've read that Puppy uses hybrid ISO since 2013 which actually answers the question as the dd command can be used to make the iso bootable for other media like usb flash drive. The reason why I asked the question was to make sure that the mkisofs command used in the builtin remaster script (with default configuration settings) would produce a "flexible" iso file.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11016
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 07 Aug 2018, 06:05    Post subject:  

Quote:
So, these iso booter programs will be able to boot the ISO even if the media is stipulated as CD?

Yes.
Again, it will only make Puppy boot as if it was installed on a CD.

However, as watchdog shows.
He uses a different boot loader, that has the pmedia= corrected for the device it is booting from.
I assume he manually made that change to the boot entry.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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jafadmin

Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 842

PostPosted: Fri 10 Aug 2018, 15:18    Post subject: Re: How to boot ISO file directly (not from CD)?  

nic007 wrote:
I need some confirmation here. Some programs can boot puppy directly from the ISO file. Generally (or in earlier days), the procedure would be to make an ISO which would then be burnt to CD. The bootloader would be isolinux.bin and the default configuration file would have pmedia=CD. What I want to know is would this default setting work when using one of these programs to boot from ISO directly (not CD) OR if the configuration file will have to be changed to indicate different media?



Nope, boot CD iso's as CD's. You can use either Grub2 or Grub4Dos.
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ITSMERSH


Joined: 02 May 2018
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Fri 10 Aug 2018, 16:21    Post subject:  

Why should I want to boot from .iso?
What is the benefits?

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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2582
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Fri 10 Aug 2018, 20:45    Post subject:  

ITSMERSH wrote:
Why should I want to boot from .iso?
What is the benefits?


I can think of a few. Quickly testing a bunch of distributions / it remains a convenient way of distributing the OS / could save disk space ( for instance I have frugal installs but also keep the official ISO's. This shouldn't be necessary).
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watchdog

Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 1659
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sat 11 Aug 2018, 00:25    Post subject:  

ITSMERSH wrote:
Why should I want to boot from .iso?
What is the benefits?


An old bug of puppy was the main sfs not found in some frugal installs on quirky hardware. I have found that booting the iso can solve the problem in most cases.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4142
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 12 Aug 2018, 18:05    Post subject:  

@ nic007/watchdog:-

Explain one thing to me, if you will. I remember hearing about this on the Ubuntu Forums, when I was a member there.....and even all those years ago, I didn't understand how it could be possible.

How can you boot from an ISO, without a non-volatile storage medium to hold the data during the boot process? RAM, as we all know, is what's termed 'volatile memory'; in other words, it requires power to it at all times in order to hold anything.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm not saying this process isn't possible, since like I said, I don't understand it), but.....surely, if you're trying to do this, at the very moment of re-booting, for a split-second, your RAM loses its power; so, hasn't the data you're attempting to boot with just gone 'poof' into thin air?

An old dog who's trying to understand something that seems to be impossible..!


Mike. Wink

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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2582
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Mon 13 Aug 2018, 02:42    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
@ nic007/watchdog:-

Explain one thing to me, if you will. I remember hearing about this on the Ubuntu Forums, when I was a member there.....and even all those years ago, I didn't understand how it could be possible.

How can you boot from an ISO, without a non-volatile storage medium to hold the data during the boot process? RAM, as we all know, is what's termed 'volatile memory'; in other words, it requires power to it at all times in order to hold anything.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm not saying this process isn't possible, since like I said, I don't understand it), but.....surely, if you're trying to do this, at the very moment of re-booting, for a split-second, your RAM loses its power; so, hasn't the data you're attempting to boot with just gone 'poof' into thin air?

An old dog who's trying to understand something that seems to be impossible..!


Mike. Wink

The RAM problem you are describing may occur whilst loading anything at bootup, iso or not (from any medium). Something will be loaded into RAM, so if that problem occurs, the bootup will almost certainly be unsuccessful. You will have to reboot.
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3188
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Mon 13 Aug 2018, 07:43    Post subject:  

Anything carried over from one boot to the next must have been stored either in a piece of non-volatile memory that wasn't refreshed, or on some sort of storage media as a temporary file.

Also don't forget that nowadays there are different levels of "boot" that perform different levels of clearing out and resetting devices that may allow data to be preserved in buffers etc.

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patrick21

Joined: 09 Aug 2014
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2018, 02:10    Post subject:  

Hello,

I think this way to boot on an iso (without cd) an interesting experiment. But, since I never used grub 2, I din't find out how to enter and adapt the script watchdog gave us.

Is there a more simple entry with grub4dos? For an iso on a usb stick?

Thanks you.
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watchdog

Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 1659
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2018, 06:07    Post subject:  

The easy way you can experiment with cautions with this is to use the old grub-1.98-i486.pet by rcrsn51 now retired and which I shared at:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=933618#933618

Install grub2 in sda by:

Code:
grub-install --force --no-floppy --root-directory=/mnt/home /dev/sda


Then install again grub4dos in sda. You can use now grub2 by the advanced menu of grub4dos ("Find grub2"). Move /root/grub.cfg in /mnt/home/boot/grub/ and edit grub.cfg to fit your case. The original grub.cfg has some old examples in it which you can delete.

If you are going to experiment with grub4dos then you have to read the long thread about isobooter. Grub4dos can boot an iso file from an usb stick but it might be freshly formatted before copying the iso into it.
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patrick21

Joined: 09 Aug 2014
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2018, 20:04    Post subject:  

watchdog thank you.

I'll try all this and feed back here for those who might be interested.
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