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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
How to get Legacy OS Teenpup 2010 revived?
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Bernhardiner


Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sun 12 Aug 2018, 07:17    Post subject:  How to get Legacy OS Teenpup 2010 revived?  

Hi @ all,

trying to revive old Legacy OS Teenpup 2010, I changed the kernel of Legacy to that from Wary 5.3 by exchanging the main sfs, renaming and converting it, and exchanging /lib/modules, /lib/firmware, /etc/modules and /lib/network.

Now, the firewall doesn't work anymore, it asks, if I compiled support for modules.

And the audio mixer cannot be found.

The usb gprs modem doesn't work either.
CDC ether driver module cannot be found.

Do you have any recommendations what to do or any solutions?

Which updates should be installed?

Do you think a different kernel would work better?

Regards,
Bernhardiner

Last edited by Bernhardiner on Mon 13 Aug 2018, 06:05; edited 1 time in total
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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 1838
Location: lincoln, uk

PostPosted: Sun 12 Aug 2018, 10:19    Post subject:  

I can't help with the tech stuff but JB has produced newer work, would this help?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/legacyoslinux/files/

Smile
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2622
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 12 Aug 2018, 10:36    Post subject:  

Hi Bernhardiner,

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Unless you have some particular need for the latest 'bells and whistles' being offered by some category of applications, the applications built into Teenpup don't have to be updated, with two exceptions: Web-browsers and Security. And security is only needed if you take Teenpup on-like. Fortunately, computer malware isn't airborne.

Teenpup 2009 was not based on wary. It was based on Puppy 2.14. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=476249#476249. It is possible to update the kernels of Puppies of that vintage, but those Puppies came before "modularization". Consequently, you'll have to follow the instructions discussed at the beginning of this thread. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=453164#453164.

Perhaps a better choice for updating would be TEENpup 2010 Mini Beta as it was based on Puppy 4.2.1. There's a reasonable chance that one of watchdog's Palemoon builds will run under it as newer glbc libraries --required to properly view or even access many current/graphic rich webpages are included in these pets: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=973676#973676.

As for updating security, I have no idea beyond (a) compiling your own openssl or (b) googling, https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015995643981050743583%3Aabvzbibgzxo&q=#gsc.tab=0 Puppy forums to see if anyone has posted security updates for the kernel used by your Teenpup.

Before exploring the adding of any applications John Biles did not include keep in mind that newer applications may have dependencies not included in whichever Teenpup you've chosen. So applications of the same vintage, and especially for Puppies using the same Kernel, may be more likely to function. But in any event, I suggest you carefully read the entire thread regarding "Removing Puppy's Automatic Save": http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=662326#662326. You don't want mistakes inadvertently becoming a part of your system. And as an added precaution, create backup SaveFiles often so you can always revert to an operating system free of problems.

mikesLr

P.S. ally posted while I was typing. I knew that John Biles had updated Teenpup/Legacy but didn't know that jrb had published extra packages. Certainly, these should be used if they meet your needs. But, if you still feel the need to 'update' remember, as far as I know, John Biles update was still based on a 2 Series Puppy. The kernel and glibc and lack of modularization concerns I discussed above will still remain.
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Bernhardiner


Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon 13 Aug 2018, 06:42    Post subject:  

Hi,

sorry, it is Teenpup 2010, not 2009, I made an error, my fault.

Is the modularization still of any concern ?

So, for security reasons, generally speaking, in any older system, openssl is the most important?
And kernel updates?
And browsers.
In some browsers, it says, tls 1.0 or tls 1.2 or whatever is on or off, or similar. What does this mean exactly for maximum security, which ssl or tls should be activated or deactivated?

(Who knows if malware isn't airborne yet, with all the wlan hotspots everywhere and an unprotected wireless card with no firewall...
I don't even need an antenna to receive signals.)
*grin*

Regards,
Bernhardiner
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2622
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 13 Aug 2018, 15:54    Post subject:  

Hi Bernhardiner,

Short Answer: While your interest remains with Teenpup you only need to be concerned with openssl. OpenSSL is a robust, commercial-grade, and full-featured toolkit for the Transport Layer Security (TLS) and Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) protocols. It is also a general-purpose cryptography library. Beyond telling you that TLS is the industry standard protocol for protecting the privacy of information communicated over the Internet I don't know much about it. Please note that I am not a "Tekky" -- rather an historian with a sometimes flaky memory. Still, I'd be very reluctant to go online if anyone could capture the information I was sending or receiving. And I would still implement Removing the Automatic Save.

If I'm not mistaken, having the latest (or at least a recent version of) openssl is primarily a concern of web-servers. You can run browsers without having current openssl. But, many websites now examine what openssl your system is using and will not permit access if your system is not 'up to date'.

To understand how I'd try to handl the openssl issue you'll have to first read the Longer Answer.

Longer Answer For when you turn your attention to other Puppies and why it may not pertain to Teenpup.

You can safely ignore the following if you never have access to a newer computer with the potential it offers and never wonder what any newer Puppy can do on your computer. And a word of warning: Don't read the Slacko 5.7, Bionicpup or Tazpup threads as they seem to do fine on even old computers.

In or about 2012 Jemimah pioneered modularization with her publication of Saluki. Puppies have long consisted of an initrd (initial ram disk booted into that provides instructions of what to do next), a vmlinuz (the kernel -- think engine), and a Puppy_version_number.sfs (applications which ran under the engine), But into which of these devs actually included the "applications used for real world work, like word-processors, graphic editors and such" was not 'written in stone'. A Dev might build them into vmlinuz, or even initrd. In Saluki, Jemimah added an adrv.sfs which contained almost all 'real world applications'; puppy_saluki_Number.sfs included only those applications necessary to boot to desktop, a terminal, a text editor, and applications to access Saluki's repo in order to install other applications. You could delete adrv and still have a functioning operating system.

Since then almost --it's still the creator's choice and FatDog, for example, sometimes likes to experiment-- all Puppies have followed her lead but not her formulation. In general, today, Puppies are constructed with an initrd (initial Ram disk with instructions), a vmlinuz (the engine), and a Puppy_Version_number.sfs consisting of all applications the creator thinks may satisfy a user's daily needs. Other applications, especially those which will take up substantial space, may be provided in an adrv. Most Puppies provide a separate zdrv and some will provide or will need an fdrv. [If not, these are in the puppy_version_number.sfs and can be separated out by remastering.] To interface with hardware --graphic cards, keyboard, sound cards etc-- a kernel/engine connects to them via drivers and firmware. Drivers have to be compiled for each kernel, but firmware does not. Most Puppies provide a zdrv containing both drivers and firmware. However in the ISO of some [lxPups, for example] zdrv only contains drivers figuring that once you've downloaded firmware (fdrv.sfs) it can be used with any Puppy.

Newer Puppies on bootup will copy into RAM the necessary files from any adrv.sfs, zdrv.sfs, fdrv.sfs it finds as well, of course, those files from its Puppy_version_number.sfs.

Consequently, with newer Puppies, with applications limited to Puppy_version_nunmber.sfs, you can easily “change kernels”. For example, you can substitute the vmlinuz, zdrv and fdrv from the latest Lxpup(Slacko) or the older Tahrpup for the vmlinuz, zdrv and fdrv that were included in the xenialpup. There are two good reasons you might want to do that. Newer kernels support newer hardware but drop support of some older hardware. Moreover, there's a constant battle with creators of malware. Newer kernels include files/systems to counter discovered malware and threats resulting from flaws in older kernels.
The latest potential threats have been discussed under the names Spectre and Meltdown. If implemented and your computer acquires one, your entire computer could be locked-up: not just the operating system which ran them. But, if I'm not mistaken, both Spectre and Meldown take advantage of potential flaws in instructions used in 64-bit systems. Kernels built after January 2018 –such as those recently built by peebee, example, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1001945#1001945, and Sailor Enceladus provide mitigation against those threads.

Teenpup, a 32-bit system, couldn't implement 64-bit instructions even if you wanted it to.

Handling the Openssl issue: Openssl may be one of those components which are Kernel-specific. I can't find any available recent openssl for Teenpup 2010 or other Puppies which used the same kernel.

As I mentioned before, I'd be inclined to use LegacyOS 2.1 as the base for updating. I note that its ISO contains vmlinuz and zdrv. Whether or not it fully utilized the “modern” system for modularization –with applications only located in pup_214.sfs-- I can't say. But the presence of a zdrv is induces hope. You might have to follow the full instructions on the How to Switch Kernels Thread, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=453164#453164, but it may be possible to merely substitute the included vmlinuz and zdrv with those available in Sailor Enceladus' Slacko 5.7.1_r6231.ISO, available here: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/kwhxksubf00ny/14.0. Download that ISO, Left-Click it and from the window which opens copy to somewhere you can later locate these two files: vmlinuz and zdrv_slacko_5.7.1.sfs. Right-Click and rename zdrv_slacko_5.7.1.sfs as zdrv_214.sfs. Assuming you have setup Legacy as a frugal install, right-click an empty space in its folder and select New>directory. Give it the name “original kernel*”. Drag the original vmlinuz and zdrv_214.sfs into that folder and select move. Then drag 'slacko' vmlinuz and the renamed zdrv_214.sfs from its location into Legacy's folder. Reboot and, if all has gone well, you should be running LegacyOS under Sailor Enceladus' new kernel. Belham2 has compiled a recent openssl for that kernel. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=962225#962225

Perhaps the same technique could be used with Teenpup 2010. I don't have that ISO, and its size doesn't commend it to downloading just to unpack and examine it. Or perhaps, following all the advice on the How to Switch Kernels thread would be required for either or both Teenpup 2010 and LegacyOS. Or perhaps –as your experience with trying to update using wary as a base showed-- things get broken. Only experimentations will tell. And, if you undertake them, we'd like to learn of your results.

mikesLr

* This will enable you to recover by booting up a different Puppy and changing back. Or perhaps a better approach would be to create a 2nd Frugal Legacy: Create another top-level folder, name it Legacy2, copy Legacy's files into it, 'change the kernel' as explained above; then add Legacy2 to your boot-menu.

Last edited by mikeslr on Mon 13 Aug 2018, 17:15; edited 1 time in total
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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 830
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Mon 13 Aug 2018, 16:27    Post subject:  

Hey great historical coverage, mikeslr - stuff I hadn't really comprehended. Would love to see this added to the Wikipedia entry for Puppy Linux, etc. (Always good to see Jemimah's name up in lights too)
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Bernhardiner


Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2018, 14:33    Post subject:  

Hi,

thank you, mikeslr.

For best results, it is surely wise to use the latest Legacy and the newest kernel.

After repeating the basic kernel switch operation, the old Legacy works now again, like normal, with the wary kernel.

Normal is, it has no gprs connection, which is the reason for me to switch the kernel.

What should be added to get gprs going?
CDC ether driver gets loaded now.

Wvdial is not pre-configured for mobile modems, which means, no APN, no PIN in the user interface.
WVdial.conf should be editable, but it is not saved. I tried to switch it with one from slacko. Maybe editsfs must be used.
It looks as if the modem is not detected, despite it claims to.

I tried out the pgprs pets, but that is not enough, no window is opened from the menu.
One says, a script failed.

The new firewall does not display the yellow window.

It seems like riding a dead horse...

Regards,
Bernhardiner
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