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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Puppy installed in hd. How to start Puppy from CD?
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arivas_2005

Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Mon 29 Oct 2018, 22:12    Post subject:  Puppy installed in hd. How to start Puppy from CD?
Subject description: I don't want to change the boot sector
 

greetings

I have a xenial pup installed in hd /sda3.
The disk has only windows 10 (sda1) start(boot) and should not be altered.

What parameters should I use to boot an installed puppy(in sda3), using a live cd?

So, I need a way to start the puppy with an external medium.
I think of a live CD. using parameters
example:
$ puppy? ? ? ? kernel parameters? ? on the command line of the start of the live CD

I hope ideas
thanks!
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11278
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2018, 04:59    Post subject:  

Do you know about Lick?
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61404
You may want to use it before trying to boot using a CD.

If you have to boot using something other than the hard drive.
Why not just use a USB flash drive.
I suggest you put Xenialpup on a USB flash drive as a live install.
Several Windows programs, found on the internet, can do the install.
I use Unetbootin.
http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
Boot with the USB and put the Xenialpup save on the USB.
Everything Puppy on the USB.
Never touches or alters anything that is Windows 10.
You can still use the hard drive sda3 for extra storage.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 577
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2018, 06:08    Post subject:  

You could enable legacy boot from usb in your BIOS and install grub4dos on an usb.
While installing grub4dos on your usb, it will make a menu.lst with what it can find on your computer.
You may have to look into it to make some (small) changes.

When you put e.g. Xenialpup on a pendrive, start it up and shut down for the first time, it will offer to make a pupsave, and also to move the main files to the hdd. You can do that.
Next you put everything neatly together in a map on your hdd and put an entry for it in your menu.lst. You may have to use the bootparameters psubdir and pdev1.
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12986
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2018, 07:46    Post subject:  

Hello arivas_2005.

The only thing you need to do is edit your BIOS boot order. On most PCs,
hit F10 when the computer starts and the BIOS panel pops up. Then, with
the arrows, navigate to the boot sequence in the BIOS panel.

Once you see this boot sequence, indicate CD/DVD as #1. On most
computers, you drill down the boot list with your down arrow; once you
have found the CD line, you hit 1 (the number one on your keyboard).
On other PCs, you may have to hit the Enter key instead of of the 1 key.
Important: save this new configuration.

Then place the Puppy CD on the CD plate and reboot. The xenialPup will
find your previous install by itself. You don't need to type anything at the
prompt. Or hit Enter at that point to not wait the 5 seconds.

Keep us posted?

IHTH

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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arivas_2005

Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2018, 20:54    Post subject:  

hello here again

expanding information:
At the moment, the laptop is like this: sda1, fat32; unknown sda2; sda3 -ntfs with windows 10; sda4 and sda5, reserved; sda6, ext3 with Xenialpup full installed.

sda1 has \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi and \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\BCD (pointing to \windows\system32\boot\winload.efi )

sda3 has all the usual windows folders (except \boot)

I installed grub in USB-fat32 (sdb1), but it does not work.
It does not start nor puppy, nor win.

errores:
map -hook
no such partitions
invalid boot.ini
or freeze.

I hope you have more suggestions. I can not modify the existing structure in sda1 and sda3.
again thank you!
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11278
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2018, 23:11    Post subject:  

Do not use Xenialpup as a full install.
Puppy works best and has features that only work when it is a frugal install.
Frugal is the name used for the install.
It is still a complete install of Xenialpup.

Delete the full install of Xenialpup.
Do a frugal install.

There is a way to use a Xenialpup live CD to boot with, but still have all the main parts of Xenialpup on the hard drive.
This is not a complete frugal install, but the stuff that actually is used is all on the hard drive and you get the same operation as if it was a true frugal install.

If you keep needing to boot from a CD.
Burn the Xenialpup iso image to the CD.
Making it a live Xenialpup CD.
Boot with it.
Do the first shutdown.
It will ask if you want to make a save and also ask if you want to put some of the Xenialpup files on the hard drive.
Say yes to both.
Put the save and the Xenialpup files on sda6 the ext 3 partition.
Because you are putting the save on an ext3 format.
Choose to make the save a save folder.
Now when you boot with the Xenialpup CD.
The save and the main part of Xenialpup will be used from what is on the hard drive.

With this setup you have the boot files on the CD and the main part of Xenialpup on the hard drive.
Xenialpup is not completely a frugal install on the hard drive, but all the parts of Xenialpup, settings, programs, main files, stuff you add, work you do, stuff you save are on the hard drive.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 577
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct 2018, 18:30    Post subject:  

arivas_2005 wrote:
sda1 has \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi and \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\BCD (pointing to \windows\system32\boot\winload.efi )
How do you know it "points" to winload.efi? The most important file here (besides BCD) is bootmgfw.efi that is the bootloader for windows.
The bootx64.efi in /EFI/Boot is the fallback and is of course also a fallback to windows. Both these .efi can be replaced Wink !
Quote:
I installed grub in USB-fat32 (sdb1), but it does not work.
It does not start nor puppy, nor win.
You mean you installed grub4dos? I do not expect it to boot windows10. But it could boot Puppy. Did you turn off secure boot?
Quote:
I hope you have more suggestions. I can not modify the existing structure in sda1 and sda3.
Why not? This is very simple from ozsouth, look at the first post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=113198
You can skip the part in windows to shrink a partition and the part with gparted. You can just put a map with Puppy in sda6 ext3, frugal install (!!!).
Before you change sda1, just copy all that is in it somewhere safe, so you can easily restore it by copying back.
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct 2018, 18:46    Post subject:  

Off Topic

bigpup wrote:
Do not use Xenialpup as a full install.
Puppy works best and has features that only work when it is a frugal install.
Frugal is the name used for the install.
It is still a complete install of Xenialpup.

/lots of stuff snipped


Mick01 if you are reading this - Once again I'll make my suggestion that changing the name of "full install" to "legacy install" would be the single easiest and fastest thing to do to improve Puppy. Even if you just mention it on puppylinux.com, that would be a good start.
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arivas_2005

Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov 2018, 13:48    Post subject:  

foxpup wrote:
Why not? This is very simple from ozsouth, look at the first post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=113198
You can skip the part in windows to shrink a partition and the part with gparted. You can just put a map with Puppy in sda6 ext3, frugal install (!!!).
Before you change sda1, just copy all that is in it somewhere safe, so you can easily restore it by copying back.

Hello @foxpup
can not download file 'bootx64.efix' indicated in in previous URL.
error: File was deleted from server.
File was deleted by owner or exceeded maximum storage time (100 days from last download)
.
also, google does not find bootx64.efix file.
Know some way to get bootx64.efix and to continue my steps in the search of running the puppy that I have in sda6 (uefi mode!). -- As indicated in the previous URL--
my thanks!
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3285
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov 2018, 17:06    Post subject:  

Most Laptops have an option to press an Fkey on boot that allows you to temporarily boot from a different device - like a CD

That is all you need. Look it up in your manual or on-line.

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arivas_2005

Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov 2018, 22:53    Post subject:  

Burn_IT wrote:
Most Laptops have an option to press an Fkey on boot that allows you to temporarily boot from a different device - like a CD
That is all you need. Look it up in your manual or on-line.

Thanks.
but, I referred to the content and steps of the url... look at the first post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=113198, suggested by user foxpup before....
there, reference the file bootx64.efix
Hopefully, it will help me find it (file: 'bootx64.efix' indicated in URL. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=113198).
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perdido


Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 1049
Location: ¿Altair IV , Just north of Eeyore Junction.?

PostPosted: Sat 03 Nov 2018, 08:14    Post subject:  

Hi arivas_2005,

Reading what ozsouth wrote in the last post of the thread where the bootx64.efix was posted
Quote:
@Limbo - that's fine. I now remember I got the bootloader from one of your posts.
Didn't have much luck with earlier versions of LICK, but point n click sounds good.


I looked at Limbomusic's posts and saw this thread about booting uefi computers
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=976218#976218
Which points to a page by Limbomusic that hosts some files for that.

Maybe you can PM ozsouth to verify that those are the files he used in the bootx64.efix

.
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 577
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Sat 03 Nov 2018, 11:04    Post subject:  

Perdido, you are right, Limbo also posted the bootx64.efi, but on this thread:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109702
But the link there does not work anymore either! You have to look for it on the link to archive.org that ally provides.
EDIT: or here: http://helledussen.com/linux/files/UEFI_boot/

In fact, it is in the iso of Puppies and fatdogs that can boot through UEFI!
If you open the iso of xenialpup e.g. you will see efi.img. Mount or extract it (click or rightclick) and you will find it there.
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 577
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Sat 03 Nov 2018, 13:06    Post subject: simple EFI dualboot from hdd  

arivas_2005 wrote:
expanding information:
At the moment, the laptop is like this: sda1, fat32; unknown sda2; sda3 -ntfs with windows 10; sda4 and sda5, reserved; sda6, ext3 with Xenialpup full installed.

sda1 has \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi and \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\BCD
Hi arivas.
Expanding yet more on this:

First: windows10 will not boot in the old legacy mode with mbr and your hdd is gpt which makes it almost impossible to have a mbr anyway.
So don't even try to install grub4dos (that is legacy mbr boot) to your hdd.
That also means you will have to boot everything in UEFI way if you want to boot from your hdd.
If you want to boot with legacy BIOS, and your machine supports it, you will have to do it from pendrive (or CD).
So what follows is for EFI.

On your sda1 are the EFI boot loader of windows on /EFI/Microsoft/, bootmgfw.efi. BCD is the configfile for it. /EFI/Boot/ has the Fallback EFI boot loader bootx64.efi. It is probably also from windows.
The EFI firmware will search these, but finding the windows boot loader, it will probably not look to the Fallback.
You can verify this in your EFI Firmware interface. Look on the tab "BOOT".
This interface is still called BIOS which is confusing.
You can enter this interface by tapping a key twice a second from the moment you turn on your laptop.
The key depends on your machine. It may be <delete> for Dell Smile, F10, F12, F2 (IBM/Lenovo)...
Look here: http://helledussen.com/linux/docs/boot_common_keys_and_uefi.html (Limbo again! Wink )
Now you can force the EFI firmware to look at the Fallback by disabling the windows boot loader by renaming /EFI/ to /EFI-W/.
Then you put your own boot loader into the Fallback Place /EFI/Boot/.

We want a boot loader that can boot windows and linux, not just windows, and on demand.
We can choose e.g. grub2, rEFInd or syslinux. We choose grub2 here.
The name of the grub2 boot loader was probably grub2.efi or grubx64.efi, but in the Fallback Place we have to rename it to bootx64.efi.
As you will see on the first boot screen, the presented bootx64.efi from Fatdog/Slacko/Puppy searches for its configuration file grub.cfg in more then one place. This is rather unique!.
Suppose you did a frugal, Puppy traditional install of xenialpup in a map called /xenialpup64/. The map can be on the root of sda6 or of any other partitition.
The menuentry in grub.cfg then would be like this:
Code:
menuentry 'Puppy xenialpup64 CE 7.5 [666philb] k4.9.58 xorg1.18.4 palemoon <x>' --class linux --unrestricted --id='xenial64' --hotkey='x' {
   search --file --set root --no-floppy /xenialpup64/initrd.gz
   linux /xenialpup64/vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck psubdir=/xenialpup64/
   initrd /xenialpup64/initrd.gz
}
You can see it is very similar to menu.lst of grub4dos.

.
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arivas_2005

Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Fri 09 Nov 2018, 13:13    Post subject:  

thanks to all the users for their help Laughing

conclusion:
impossible to start linux installed with live cd using cheatcodes


But with his contributions I did the following:

PREVIOUS:
It was needed
to. a Mageia UEFI 64 system installed
b. a bootable usb with Xenial Pup 64 UEFI

from here:
1. I obtained the grubx64.efi of a mageia 5.1 UEFI installation
2. I obtained the /boot/ folder of a mageia 5.1 UEFI installation
3. I obtained the grub.cfg file of a bootable usb
4. extract the list of UUID from the disk partitions of the LAPTOP with w 10 UEFI

PROCEDURE AT THE LAPTOP

1. Resize the partition of W 10
2. create the partition (or partitions) for the Puppylinux ext4
3. Install Xenual Puppy 64 UEFI in sda6 full mode in sda6 (NOOO install grub4dos)
4. Rename the /boot/ folder in Xenial installed as /boot_p/ in sda6
5. copy the folder /boot/ obtained of mageia to sda6/
6. replace the file grub.cfg in sda6/boot/grub2/ with the content (grub.cfg) proposed below
(extracted from the grub.cfg of the bootable usb with XenialPuppy and the mageia grub.cfg)
7. make sure to modify the number 6 of each partition in (hd0, gpt6) and change the UUID according to the case (in grub.cfg)
8. make sure the line linux /boot_p/ vmlinuz root=/dev/sda6, in the '/boot_p/' part
9. Make sure to change the chainloader line '/EFI/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi' by chainloader '/EFI-w/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi'
.. ( It can be arranged for sda4, sda5, sda6,... ) .
IN THE WINDOWS START PARTITION (fat32, assuming it is sda1)
1. copy /EFI/ as /EFI-w/
2. in /EFI/ remove everything and leave /EFI/Boot/ empty.
3. copy grubx64.efi from mageia to /EFI/Boot.
4. Rename grubx64.efi as bootx64.efi
5. using mc, edit the bootx64.efi --> search stringr '(, gpt #) /boot/grub2' and in # put the number of the partition where the /boot/grub2/grub.cfg is. save

Restart.
In my case, I see a series of error lines but in the end they work the WIndows 10 and the Xenial Puppy 7.5 UEFI full installed

To rebuild the LAPTOP,
1. in partition start delete /EFI/ and rename /EFI-w/ ​​as /EFI
2. remove the ext4 partitions created before
3. Resize the W 10 partition to its original size again.

grub.cfg
Code:
insmod png
background_image /boot_p/xenial.png
terminal_output gfxterm
insmod part_gpt
insmod ext2
set root='hd0,gpt6'
if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,gpt6 --hint-efi=hd0,gpt6 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,gpt6  52ceac00-aa32-4ed7-b84e-b5cdb2a1ef79
else
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 52ceac00-aa32-4ed7-b84e-b5cdb2a1ef79
fi

set timeout=50

menuentry 'Xenial Puppy 7.5 UEFI full /dev/sda6 OK)' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-gnulinux-simple-52ceac00-aa32-4ed7-b84e-b5cdb2a1ef79' {
   insmod part_gpt
   insmod ext2
   set root='hd0,gpt6'
   if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
     search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,gpt6 --hint-efi=hd0,gpt6 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,gpt6  52ceac00-aa32-4ed7-b84e-b5cdb2a1ef79
   else
     search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 52ceac00-aa32-4ed7-b84e-b5cdb2a1ef79
   fi
   linux /boot_p/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda6
}
menuentry 'Windows 10 Boot Manager SDA1-System sda3' --class windows --class os $menuentry_id_option 'osprober-efi-1C92-8498' {
   insmod part_gpt
   insmod fat
   set root='hd0,gpt1'
   if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
     search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,gpt1 --hint-efi=hd0,gpt1 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,gpt1  1C92-8498
   else
     search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 1C92-8498
   fi
   chainloader /EFI-w/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
}

menuentry "Shutdown" {
   halt
}
menuentry "Reboot" {
   reboot
}

menuentry "Xenial-Puppy sda7-frugal" {
  insmod part_gpt
   insmod ext2
   set root='hd0,gpt7'
   if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
     search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,gpt7 --hint-efi=hd0,gpt7 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,gpt7  82029622-0e9f-4c63-9956-7926ea0fa307
   else
     search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 82029622-0e9f-4c63-9956-7926ea0fa307
   fi
   linux /vmlinuz
   initrd /initrd.gz
}

(I have not been able to attach the used files)
but: https://www.filehosting.org/file/details/764795/FOR_boot.zip
Thank you again[/url]
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