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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
18.05 - strange user behavior after hd install
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ccaaee

Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sat 09 Feb 2019, 21:53    Post subject:  18.05 - strange user behavior after hd install
Subject description: after full hd install no su to some users
 

Hello

One of the first things one notices about puppy is that one is normally always root.
There are a number of other users that have specific purposes and one of them is "webuser" who runs hiawatha having his home directory as /root/Web-Server.
Another is "nobody" who, amongst other things runs mysql when installed
Well these guys work fine when running live from a USB boot but don't after a HD install.
In fact you can't even su to webuser or nobody after a HD install.
I'd always understood that a HD install was the same environment as the live USB one...

Any ideas???
ccaaee
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 1342
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Sat 09 Feb 2019, 22:16    Post subject:  

look in this file : /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow

if this is missing you will need to copy it to this position from the USB stick version. The file /etc/passwd (example) ->

Code:
root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/sh
daemon:x:1:1::/:
nobody:x:65534:65534::/tmp:
spot:x:502:502:Linux User,,,:/home/spot:/bin/sh
bin:x:2:2:bin:/bin:
messagebus:x:503:503:Linux User,,,:/tmp:/bin/sh
ftp:x:1000:1000:Linux User,,,:/root/ftpd:/bin/sh
haldaemon:x:108:119:Hardware abstraction layer,,,:/var/run/hald:/bin/false
uucp:x:10:10:uucp:/var/spool/uucp:/bin/sh
sshd:x:33:33:sshd:/:
webuser:x:1002:504:Linux User,,,:/root/Web-Server:/bin/sh
finn:x:1001:500:Linux User,,,:/root:/bin/sh
man:x:65534:65534::/tmp:


also the file /etc/group must be present

Code:
root:x:0:
daemon:x:1:
tty:x:2:
ppp:x:200:
users:x:500:fido
nobody:x:65534:
guest:x:501:
spot:x:502:spot
bin::2:root,bin,daemon
503:x:503:messagebus
ftp:x:1000:
dip:x:30:
uucp::10:
lpadmin::112:root,spot,nobody,guest,fido
netdev::113:
haldaemon::119:
sshd::33:sshd
webgroup:x:504:
disk::100:root,spot,fido
audio::101:root,spot,fido
lp::102:root,daemon,spot,fido
dialout::103:root,spot,fido
kmem::104:root,spot,fido
video::105:root,spot,fido
floppy::106:root,spot,fido
cdrom::107:root,spot,fido
tape::108:root
tty::109:root,spot,fido
plugdev::110:root,spot,fido


although these examples are from a Bionic 32 bit upupbb-18.05
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ccaaee

Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sat 09 Feb 2019, 23:13    Post subject:  

Thanks

the files /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow and /etc/group are identical between the live USB boot and the install (sda1 in my case).

When starting hiawatha or su'ing on the live boot - no problem.

on the HD install:

# hiawatha
Warning: error redirecting stdin
Warning: error redirecting stdout

# su - webuser
su: can't change directory to '/root/Web-Server'
su: can't change directory to '/': Permission denied

# ls -l /root/ | grep Web
drwxr-sr-x 3 webuser webgroup 4096 Feb 10 06:15 Web-Server

# su webuser
su: can't execute '/bin/sh': Permission denied

Any ideas?

ccaaee
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12970
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 09 Feb 2019, 23:21    Post subject:  

What exact Puppy version you using?
Full name and version?

_________________
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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1413

PostPosted: Sat 09 Feb 2019, 23:24    Post subject:  

Is it really a "full install"?

If so, any reason other than the name?

If you did do a full install, I recommend you do a frugal install instead. It is better in every way and there is a 99% chance your problem will go away.

/offtopic to no one in particular

To repeat myself again, the problem is the name "full install". It makes people think that it is somehow better or fuller or whatever. If we called it "legacy install" then people wouldn't use it for no good reason.
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ccaaee

Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sat 09 Feb 2019, 23:30    Post subject:  

cat /etc/DISTRO_SPECS

#One or more words that identify this distribution:
DISTRO_NAME='UPupBB'
#version number of this distribution:
DISTRO_VERSION=18.05
#The distro whose binary packages were used to build this distribution:
DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT='ubuntu'
#Prefix for some filenames: exs: upupbbsave.2fs, puppy_upupbb-18.05.sfs
DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX='upupbb'
#The version of the distro whose binary packages were used to build this distro:
DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION='bionic'
#read by /usr/bin/xwin to bypass Xorg Wizard at first boot:
DISTRO_XORG_AUTO='yes'
DISTRO_KERNEL_PET='Huge_Kernel'
DISTRO_DB_SUBNAME='upupbb'
DISTRO_ARCHDIR='i386-linux-gnu'
DISTRO_TARGETARCH='x86'
BUILD_FROM_WOOF='master;ec80b41b;2018-06-23 11:36:40 +0800'
#Puppy default filenames...
#Note, the 'SFS' files below are what the 'init' script in initrd.gz searches for,
#for the partition, path and actual files loaded, see PUPSFS and ZDRV in /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE
DISTRO_PUPPYSFS='puppy_upupbb_18.05.sfs'
DISTRO_ZDRVSFS='zdrv_upupbb_18.05.sfs'
DISTRO_FDRVSFS='fdrv_upupbb_18.05.sfs'
DISTRO_ADRVSFS='adrv_upupbb_18.05.sfs'
DISTRO_YDRVSFS='ydrv_upupbb_18.05.sfs'
DISTRO_PUPPYDATE='Feb 2019'
#multiarch distros, such as Ubuntu, will have this. ex: /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu, so DISTRO_ARCHDIR=i386-linux-gnu
DISTRO_ARCHDIR='i386-linux-gnu'
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ccaaee

Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sat 09 Feb 2019, 23:40    Post subject:  

Yes, this is really a full install.

The reason I did a full install was because I've always, in the past 8 years, over several versions, done it that way and never had any problems. My understanding of frugal is that it is for windows users that don't want to partition their hard drive. I don't use windows. Nevertheless, this is the first time I've run into problems like this in all the time I've been using puppy linux.
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6502coder


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 651
Location: Western United States

PostPosted: Sun 10 Feb 2019, 00:03    Post subject:  

ccaaee wrote:
My understanding of frugal is that it is for windows users that don't want to partition their hard drive. I don't use windows.

To put it simply, but I hope not too bluntly, your understanding is wrong.

Frugal installs have these major advantages, which have NOTHING to do with whether or not you have Windows:

1) They make it easier to recover from a totally botched system. You just reinstall from the original ISO, add a copy of your backup of your savefolder/savefile, and you're back in business. Whereas a full install requires you to backup everything.

2) It gives you the possibility of booting into a pristine version of the OS (ie minus your savefile/savefolder stuff) at any time. Useful for security purposes or to do maintenance or detective work.

3) It allows you to have multiple versions of Puppy in the same partition. You choose which one you want from the boot menu. No need to give each Puppy its own partition.

4) Using PETs to install stuff -- which only works with frugal installs -- makes UNinstalling said stuff much easier.

FULL installs have one merit and one merit only: if you have severely limited RAM -- less than 512 MB -- a full install will be faster than a frugal.

As for the root user issue, Puppy always has been designed to run as root. It has never been truly multi-user. If you want/need to do things that require proper multi-user support, you should be thinking about another OS.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12970
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 10 Feb 2019, 00:56    Post subject:  

Quote:
4) Using PETs to install stuff -- which only works with frugal installs -- makes UNinstalling said stuff much easier.

Wrong.
Pet packages will install to any type of Puppy install.

Frugal install feature.
Can load and unload sfs program packages, to use a program without actually installing the program, into Puppy.

_________________
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
YaPI(any iso installer)
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12970
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 10 Feb 2019, 01:14    Post subject:  

I assume you have looked in the UppupBB 18.05 topic to see if there is any issues posted about full installs.

If this is a fresh new install of UppupBB 18.05.

I have had installs just not install correctly. Just happens, sometimes.

Do this using Gparted that comes in Puppy.
I would try reformatting the partition you are installing on.
Suggest you use exit 3 or 4 for format.
This should make sure the file system is clean and error free.

Try doing a fresh clean full install again.

I know that Puppy development is not spending a lot of time to make sure full installs of Puppy still work OK.
All the code changes are making sure frugal installs work correctly.
Maybe something got broken with full installs.

You really need to try using a Puppy as a frugal install.
If you install to a Linux formatted partition (exit 3 or 4).
You can make the save a save folder.
Save folders can auto adjust to use whatever free space is needed for new saved data.

A frugal install should run a little faster.
It loads more of Puppy into RAM than a full install does.

_________________
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
YaPI(any iso installer)
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ccaaee

Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun 10 Feb 2019, 07:14    Post subject:  

Yes, I guess I overlooked frugal installs.
I can su to the aforementioned users with the frugal install. The curious in me still wants to know what gives with the full install but seeing as how frugal works I'll use it.
I'm still having issues with Hiawatha and mysql but I should be able to debug them now.
Thanks to all for the info
C
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 1342
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Sun 10 Feb 2019, 15:12    Post subject:  

Quote:
the problem is the name "full install". It makes people think that it is somehow better or fuller or whatever. If we called it "legacy install" then people wouldn't use it for no good reason.


Totally agree...good idea.

Quote:
I'm still having issues with Hiawatha and mysql but I should be able to debug them now.


what kind of problems???...I am setting up at the moment a Hiawatha 10.8.3 web server, mariaDB for mysql and PHP7.2 for a LHMP - ZoneMinder with zmnotification server and object detection installation. I might be able to give some tips to get your set up running
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6502coder


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 651
Location: Western United States

PostPosted: Sun 10 Feb 2019, 19:25    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Quote:
4) Using PETs to install stuff -- which only works with frugal installs -- makes UNinstalling said stuff much easier.

Wrong.
Pet packages will install to any type of Puppy install.

Thanks, bigpup! Nice to have a lead dog around to keep the rest of the team on the right track. Wink
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3541
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 10 Feb 2019, 20:37    Post subject:  

I'm sure 6502coder was thinking of SFSes which are additional file-systems (the FS part of the name) that can be loaded and unloaded without installing under Frugal Installs. SFS have at least two advantages over pets. (1) You can test to find out whether on your system it works better than the older version: Unload the old, load the new. If not, unload the new and delete it. (2) If you're short on RAM or if an SFS conflicts with some other application, you can unload it until you need it again.

SFSes can be used with Full installs: Left-Click and select install. But doing so will over-write (obliterating), or worse, only partially over-write the old version creating a mess.

The Woof-Team should change the wording in the Puppy Installer, substituting "Legacy" for "Full". But that will still leave thousands of ISOs floating around misleading people.
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ccaaee

Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon 11 Feb 2019, 06:42    Post subject:  

Quote:
what kind of problems???..


I was trying to use LHMP-8.0-5.3.4-5.3.10.pet which would not start mysql/mariaDB as user "nobody" and, concerning hiawath, kept showing 503 errors when trying to access php...

After hours of tweaking and hacking and installing other packages for other things I went back to LHMP-7.3-5.1.47-5.3.3.pet which I had been using in previous puppies and everything worked "out of the box". When I get more time I'll compare the two packages out of curiosity. Right now it's working fine in 18.05 and I'm happy with it.

Thanks
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