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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
alternative puppy build system
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1942

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2019, 21:12    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:
yes guys

i didnt notice i was using this as a blog

i will only post when i have things completed


thanks

wanderer


It does sound though as you have some things complged. For instance:

kernel 5.3 megs
initrd 2.5 megs
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1111

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2019, 21:47    Post subject:  

hi s243a

at the risk of continuing to go on and on

i was just describing the components of the system
and how they fit together and could be manipulated

the point is to break the system into its component parts
make them into modules
and then make a system to reassemble them as desired

one of the the other things that will need to be done
as wiak noted on the other thread
is to make a script to build each component

ie by reverse engineering the components
break woof-ce into script pieces
that can be used to build a distro
stage by stage

then woof-ce will no longer be needed
and the distro will be able to be built and updated independently
however all the parts (at least in the beginning)
will be pure woof-ce puppy

using a premade distro like upupbb
is a way to do all this knowing that
all the components are complete and compatible
and you also have a complete build environment
set up to make that particular version

you only have to have the iso
to locate and examine the pieces
all the pieces we are talking about are in that distro

by breaking the task into small parts
you only have to work on the parts you select each time
and you make the task manageable

also you know it already works
so if it doesnt work after you manipulate it
you broke it

i have done this before
except the make and assemble scripts
but i didnt think it would be of any interest to the puppy community
until i read the alternative build system thread

i hope i havent gone on too long
but that is what i am doing

wanderer
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1483
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 03 May 2019, 02:32    Post subject:  

sounds interesting, wanderer. As soon as you have even a small part doing anything (even just booting to commandline) I hope you will release that and make regular update releases thereafter, That would be an interesting build system attempt to follow since simple start makes everything easy to understand and I'm sure many people would learn a lot from that simple system being published and gradually updated. The end product is often less important than the learning process since learning and understanding such work, from basics to more polished release, in slow release cycle steps, helps create active participants for the future.

So please don't be shy and do release the very first component parts that manage to boot. A useful system is not expected at this stage - and actually as soon as you can successfully boot any Linux system it already becomes useful.

In fact, it would be good if you published the first components used in an attempt to boot (even if the boot failed). That way, you would no doubt get quick fix ideas that helped move things forward; only accept ideas that help you; it's your project, but definitely more useful community-wise if you release early and release each update you add to that.

wiak

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Check Firmware: www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1942

PostPosted: Fri 03 May 2019, 12:32    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:
hi s243a

at the risk of continuing to go on and on

i was just describing the components of the system
and how they fit together and could be manipulated


My understanding was that you have produced something concreate and without the pieces how can we follow your steps?


Quote:

the point is to break the system into its component parts
make them into modules
and then make a system to reassemble them as desired

If your able to give us the size of the compoenents then you must have something tangable. Didn't you also say that you had a corepup that was being actively maintained by the tinycore community?
Quote:

one of the the other things that will need to be done
as wiak noted on the other thread
is to make a script to build each component

You could perhaps write a script to strip an existing kernal (e.g. technosaurus zdrv cutter) or alternativly set the kernal configuration parameters so that they generate a smaller kernal (see stemsee's script, or miko's older script).
Quote:

ie by reverse engineering the components
break woof-ce into script pieces
that can be used to build a distro
stage by stage

You can get individual packages for puppy components from WoofCE at:
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/tree/testing/woof-code/rootfs-packages

these packages could be packaged into the tinycore package format.

Quote:

i have done this before
except the make and assemble scripts
but i didnt think it would be of any interest to the puppy community
until i read the alternative build system thread

What happened to the results of this past effort?`

Quote:

i hope i havent gone on too long
but that is what i am doing

wanderer


No need to apologize. The only thing is that if the tangible "steps" or "concrete results" are spread out over too many posts then it will be harder for other people to follow what you are doing and figure out how to get started either using or building a corepup.
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1111

PostPosted: Fri 03 May 2019, 15:23    Post subject:  

hi s243a and everyone

first to make it easy for everyone
i will put all important stuff in the first post

and note that i did this in the last posts

it would be nice if the woof-ce guys
would make a small simple script
to build a small simple puppy
that could be extended in stages
and post it on the forum
so non woof-ce guys
could make their own puppies
and learn the system
however i do not think that is going to happen

so

the only choice for us non woof-ce guys
is to make our own system to make puppies

this thread is an attempt to do this

there is however a silver lining to this problem
we can make a system that is more flexible and simple than woof-ce
that can be developed to expand the number of varieties of "real" puppies

this project will use components from all sources
so it can be a combination of all linux distros
and hopefully give us a way to unify some of our efforts

it will also be simple enough for anyone to understand and use
(with the help of gurus like fredx
to build the hard parts like his portable firefox)

since this is what i want to do
i will do it regardless
but i would appreciate any help i can get
and hope it will become a community project

i will now post all the important stuff in the first post

always look there
for a complete overview
and the latest news

i appreciate everyone's interest and help

thanks again

wanderer
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1942

PostPosted: Fri 03 May 2019, 15:43    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:


it would be nice if the woof-ce guys
would make a small simple script
to build a small simple puppy
that could be extended in stages
and post it on the forum
so non woof-ce guys
could make their own puppies
and learn the system
however i do not think that is going to happen



Hello Wander,

I think that jrb might be planning to build a version of Bionic32-light from woofCE if he/she hasn't done so already. See post:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1027015#1027015
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1111

PostPosted: Fri 03 May 2019, 15:50    Post subject:  

hi s243a

thanks

that seems cool

but im not talking about a small distro
im talking about a small simple woof-ce script
to build a small simple puppy
and post it on the forum
so we all can use it

not going to happen i guess

wanderer
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1111

PostPosted: Fri 03 May 2019, 18:16    Post subject:  

hi all

this is important so i will post it

the puppy boot system is very (unnecessarily) complex
so you cannot simply remove components and have things work up to each stage

the first significant modification in our system
will have to be incorporating parts of the the corepup bootloader system into the iso

this does not change that it is puppy
the base puppy system is unchanged

unfortunately
we will have to change many specific system flaws in puppy
as we go along

but the changes will yield a more modular and flexible puppy

the silver lining in the cloud


to keep things organized
all the important stuff will be in the first post
always look there
for a complete overview
and the latest news


wanderer
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1111

PostPosted: Fri 03 May 2019, 21:49    Post subject:  

hi all

i want to give those interested
in an overview of this project

this project is called the alternative puppy build project
or a for short
until the community comes up with a better name


puppy is composed of
essentially 3 parts

1.
the bootloader
the kernel and
the initrd

2.
the main sfs file
and additional sfs files
(compressed)

3.
the save file
(uncompressed)
to this we will add other uncompressed files


that is how we will structure our project

the first iso
a1.iso
will be part 1
(console only)

the second iso
a2.iso
will be parts 1 + 2
(basic x and additional apps as specified)

the third iso
a3.iso will be parts 1 + 2 + 3
with additional apps and functions in part 3
since it will be read/write
without remastering the iso

the best way to add an application to our project
is to put the entire app in a folder
and symlink it to root

or like fredx portable firefox
have it run from home

the layered filesystem is a flaw
and we will avoid it as much as possible
and use it only if we cannot avoid it

that being said
we will make as few changes as possible
to the basic puppy system
to remain compatible with other puppies

eventually we will also have

1. a script or recipe to make modules

2. a script or recipe to add or remove modules

3. a text file that #2 script will use to make puppies
so they are recorded and and reproducible

4. a small repository of essential items and apps
in the corepup repository

this sounds like a lot
but it is actually less than you think
since i have already done much of it in the past

i will put the isos
in the corepup repository
since it is already set up
with a link in the first post of this project

i am close to being done with the first iso
and will post it as soon as i get everything set up


remember
to keep things organized
all the important stuff will be in the first post
always look there
for a complete overview
and the latest news

any input and help is appreciated

have a nice life

wanderer
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1111

PostPosted: Sat 04 May 2019, 00:35    Post subject:  

hi all

i have posted the first iso of this project
the link in the first post will get you to it
and the iso is named a1.iso

this is the first stage iso
and is the command line only
it is simply made by taking isomaster
and removing all of the sfs files from the upupbb32 iso
this causes the initrd to not be able to find them
and it will then drop to the command line

this works fine for a cd
but i had to build a usb by hand
using parts of the corepup boot system

i will post the instructions for that in a little while
as i am getting tired

over time we will probably want to add things to this iso
to make it have more functions
we will do that by opening the initrd which is a cpio archive
when we make a modification to a1.iso
we will rename it a1-1.iso etc
so it can be distinguished from its predecessors

next i will work on the a2.iso


remember
to keep things organized
all the important stuff will be in the first post
always look there
for a complete overview
and the latest news


wanderer
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1111

PostPosted: Sat 04 May 2019, 01:06    Post subject:  

hi all

i have posted the second iso of this project
the link in the first post will get you to it
the iso is named a2.iso
and is the prototype basic x and other apps iso
actually at this stage it is simply the original upupbb32 iso
with a readme.txt file added to it
to identify it as the a2.iso
over time this iso will be extensively modified
primarily by adding subtracting and rearranging the internals
of the main sfs file
when it is modified it will be renamed
a2-1.iso etc to distinguish it from its predecessors

i will now begin to work on the a3.iso
which will contain an uncompressed ext2 image
so that apps can be added and subtracted from the system
without remastering
this is more complex
and will take a little time


remember
to keep things organized
all the important stuff will be in the first post
always look there
for a complete overview
and the latest news

wanderer
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1942

PostPosted: Sat 04 May 2019, 01:41    Post subject: Re: alternative puppy build system
Subject description: oh god please help me
 

wanderer wrote:
http://smokey01.com/wanderer/



Hello Wanderer, if you get time could you kindly provide a short description of each iso in the directory and maybe a link to a post that discusses it further.

Last edited by s243a on Sat 04 May 2019, 02:05; edited 1 time in total
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1111

PostPosted: Sat 04 May 2019, 01:46    Post subject:  

hi

s243a

the only isos that are relevant to this project
are the a1.iso and the a2.iso

the others are from corepup

what the a1.iso and a2.iso are is discussed in the first post

and thanks for all your help and support

regards

wanderer
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1483
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 04 May 2019, 02:19    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:

the only isos that are relevant to this project
are the a1.iso and the a2.iso

the others are from corepup

what the a1.iso and a2.iso are is discussed in the first post


Thanks wanderer, if you run into any issues arranging things to work the way you plan just give us a shout.

wiak

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Tiny Linux Blog: http://www.tinylinux.info/
Check Firmware: www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
tinycore/slitaz: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990130#990130
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1111

PostPosted: Sat 04 May 2019, 09:47    Post subject:  

hi all

i have decided not to make an a3.iso at this time
that is the iso with the uncompressed save file in it
since this is only useful for a usb setup
and the a2.iso will make one on the hard drive
where it will be used anyway

in the future
i will give instructions how to set it up on the usb

the next task is to determine the set of modules
that are needed for the basic x system

and the modules that are needed for an
xterm
editor - gtkedit
file manager - emelfm
browser - dillo

to go into the base a2.iso

upupbb32 has a nice utility that lists what is in the main.sfs file
so that should be a big help

i also intend to clean up the first post
since it is getting messy

as always
remember
to keep things organized
all the important stuff will be in the first post
always look there
for a complete overview
and the latest news

wanderer
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