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alternative puppy build system
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 05:20    Post subject:  

hi s243a and everyone

i have been working on my delta tinycore based build system
and after much analysis and soul searching
it has once again become clear to me
that the old puppy system can never be made
into an efficient modular build system

s243a you are a guru but most people are not
and they need a simple system to work with
that means old puppy and woof-next
will always be too complicated and cumbersome for them

so from now on i will concentrate on the delta build system
as the alternative puppy build system

this means changing the structure of puppy
but if you cant change things you cant improve them

s243a i have a request

why dont you take a short break from your project
and help me with delta

its really a very simple and flexible system

1. tinycore is the base and the base repositories
its very easy to modify
the core.gz and the tcz files

2. to add things
obtain an app as a deb sfs or pet
unsquash it with uextract
resolve its dependencies with ldd
squash it back up with mksquashfs
and you have a new component

you could make a universal recipe/script
to do this with any component
from any source puppy devuan etc

and you can add the symlinked /root/apps directory system
if you didnt want to make it into a tcz

there is a endless number of other things you could do
and all of them are very simple to accomplish

in fact most of these things are already done
and there is no need to reinvent the wheel

remember this thread is to find
an alternative puppy build system
not to be locked into a particular inefficient structure
just because of tradition

what is your opinion on all this

i look forward to hearing from you

regards

wanderer
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2144

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 09:54    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:
hi s243a and everyone

i have been working on my delta tinycore based build system
and after much analysis and soul searching
it has once again become clear to me
that the old puppy system can never be made
into an efficient modular build system

I'm trying to make it more module but it all depends on what you want.
[quote] s243a you are a guru but most people are not
and they need a simple system to work with
that means old puppy and woof-next
will always be too complicated and cumbersome for them
[quote]
I think that if you only specify a few packages that everything depends on then it might not be too complicated but at the same time that might produce a larger system than on wants.

Quote:

so from now on i will concentrate on the delta build system
as the alternative puppy build system

this means changing the structure of puppy
but if you cant change things you cant improve them

Keep explaining what you are doing and we'll follow along.

Quote:

s243a i have a request

why dont you take a short break from your project
and help me with delta

At the moment I don't have much time for woof-next either and I don't understand your delta system yet, so I'll keep listening while you explain it.

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 13:45    Post subject:  

hi s243a

thanks for your reply

and for being so understanding

i didnt want to make you angry
by constantly annoying you with my opinion

im also glad you are taking a break
i was worried about you


just relax and i will tell you a story ...


the delta build system consists of

1. a set of instructions-script

the instructions and code
you need to understand and build the system

2. a build kit

the pieces you need to build the system

the initiate
will start out with working isos
so everything will work out of the box
(less frustration that way)

i have pretty much set up a working system
now it just needs to be further developed

the build environment is
upupbb32
and the 3 versions of tinycore 9
(these can be upgraded as desired)

i will post all the components
on the repository on the first post

what i am posting here
is the beginning of the instructions-script
the script will be written on this thread
and a full copy posted in the repository
on the first post of this thread


there are 6 main components of the iso

1. the boot loader

i use syslinux

2. the kernel

one is provided
but you can change it if you want

3. the core.gz

a cpio archive

4. the tcz or sfs files

squashfs files with apps and dependencies in them

5. the cde and tce directories

these hold the squashfs files

6. the home and apps directories

these hold the uncompressed app files


each of these components can be easily modified at will


now
i am taking a break to eat my lunch
more to come ...

wanderer
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 14:51    Post subject:  

hi again

the reason i chose upupbb32 as the build environment is that

1. it is a great example of what woof-ce and the gurus can make

2. it has a lot of neat utilities that make things easier to do

3. it is a good source of finished puppy parts

i will post a copy of it in the repository on the first post
since its part of our build kit
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2144

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2019, 16:51    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
s243a wrote:
but this isn't enough to use the gui aspects of JRB's portable browser installer because we also need gxmessage.


Perhaps replace in jrb's scripts: gxmessage with xmessage (which is part of package "x11-utils" and is included in your iso, I think, from having a quick look at the contents of puppy.sfs).


Done
Code:

if [ ! -z "`which gxmessage`" ]; then
  gxmessage -bg yellow -file /usr/share/doc/pmportable
elif [ ! -z "`which xmessage`" ]; then
  xmessage -file /usr/share/doc/pmportable
else
  cat /usr/share/doc/pmportable
  read -p "Press enter to continue"
fi


Quote:

EDIT: I just tried your tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha5.iso, it did boot to the desktop, OK.
Mmm.. I know it's experimental of course, but sorry to say, I experienced that 99% doesn't work as expected, so .. what's the value of sharing then ?

Apologizes. I forgot to add the "not intended for use disclaimer" by it. I've been posting them because wanderer wanted to see some progress.

Quote:
Anyway, output of Portabrowser with option Palemoon:
Code:
What drive would you like to install PalemoonPortable on? eg: sda3
sda3
/usr/local/bin/pminst: line 53: curl: command not found
Downloading Palemoon...
--2019-06-04 17:42:06--  https://linux.palemoon.org/
Resolving linux.palemoon.org (linux.palemoon.org)... 104.20.60.158, 104.20.61.158, 2606:4700:10::6814:3d9e, ...
Connecting to linux.palemoon.org (linux.palemoon.org)|104.20.60.158|:443... connected.
WARNING: The certificate of 'linux.palemoon.org' is not trusted.
WARNING: The certificate of 'linux.palemoon.org' hasn't got a known issuer.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: unspecified [text/html]
Saving to: 'index.html'

index.html              [ <=>                ]  17.85K  --.-KB/s    in 0.006s 

2019-06-04 17:42:06 (3.14 MB/s) - 'index.html' saved [18282]


Extracting Palemoon...
tar (child): -C: Cannot open: No such file or directory
tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now
tar: Child returned status 2
tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
Done, the portable Palemoon folder is Pale/usr/local/bin/pminst: line 6: gxmessage: command not found
PalemoonPortable has already been installed.  Do you wish to reinstall? y/n
y
What drive would you like to install PalemoonPortable on? eg: sda3
sda3
/usr/local/bin/pminst: line 53: curl: command not found
Downloading Palemoon...
--2019-06-04 17:42:06--  https://linux.palemoon.org/
Resolving linux.palemoon.org (linux.palemoon.org)... 104.20.60.158, 104.20.61.158, 2606:4700:10::6814:3d9e, ...
Connecting to linux.palemoon.org (linux.palemoon.org)|104.20.60.158|:443... connected.
WARNING: The certificate of 'linux.palemoon.org' is not trusted.
WARNING: The certificate of 'linux.palemoon.org' hasn't got a known issuer.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: unspecified [text/html]
Saving to: 'index.html'

index.html              [ <=>                ]  17.85K  --.-KB/s    in 0.006s 

2019-06-04 17:42:06 (3.14 MB/s) - 'index.html' saved [18282]


Extracting Palemoon...
tar (child): -C: Cannot open: No such file or directory
tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now
tar: Child returned status 2
tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
Done, the portable Palemoon folder is Palemoon__32
You can now delete the archive:
PM__32.tar.bz2
ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/local/bin/pmportable_launch': File exists
ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/share/applications/Palemoon-portable.desktop': File exists
Generating /root/.jwmrc...
sda3
/usr/local/bin/pminst: line 84: /mnt/sda3/Palemoon__32: Is a directory
/mnt/sda3/Palemoon__32/pm: line 8: /mnt/sda3/Palemoon__32/palemoon: No such file or directory


Would you like to make Palemoon the default browser? y/n
 
moon__32
You can now delete the archive:
PM__32.tar.bz2
ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/local/bin/pmportable_launch': File exists
ln: failed to create symbolic link '/usr/share/applications/Palemoon-portable.desktop': File exists
Generating /root/.jwmrc...
sda3
/usr/local/bin/pminst: line 84: /mnt/sda3/Palemoon__32: Is a directory
/mnt/sda3/Palemoon__32/pm: line 8: /mnt/sda3/Palemoon__32/palemoon: No such file or directory


Would you like to make Palemoon the default browser? y/n
 


Fred


I added curl (for some reason not on github yet), added a statment to update the certificates:
Code:

ca-certificates #Recommended for wget
%chroot update-ca-certificates

/woof-distro/x86/tiny_devuan/ascii/basesfs#L107

I also modified the code so it doesn't depend on yad:

Code:

if [ ! -z "`which yad`" ]; then

yad --center --window-icon=/usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps/www48.png --title="Portable Web Browser Installer" --form --width=450 --text="PORTABLE WEB BROWSER INSTALLER
--------------------------------------------------
Please choose your desired browser:" \
--image="/usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps/www48.png" \
--field="Firefox Quantum":fbtn "ffinst" \
--field="Palemoon":fbtn "pminst" \
--field="Seamonkey":fbtn "sminst" \
--field="Thunderbird email client":fbtn "tbinst" \
--no-buttons --close-on-unfocus

else
  tty -s; if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then defaultterminal -hold -e "$0"; exit; fi
  tempfile=/tmp/bla
  dialog --backtitle "CPU Selection" \
  --ok-label "List" \
  --radiolist "Please choose your desired browser:" 10 40 4 \
        1 "Firefox Quantum" off \
        2 "Palemoon" on \
        3 "Seamonkey" off \
        4 "Thunderbird email client" off \
        2> $tempfile
  is_ok="$?"
  browser_choice=`cat $tempfile`
  echo browser_choice
  if [ $is_ok -eq 0 ]; then
    case "$browser_choice" in
    1) ffinst ;;
    2) pminst ;;
    3) sminst ;;
    4) tbinst ;;
    esac
  fi
fi

/woof-code/rootfs-packages/PortaBrowseInstall-i386-0.4/usr/local/PortableBrowserInstaller/PortableBrowserInstall#L8

I supposed, I could also just have someone type in a number if dialog isn't installed.

P.S. 1 I should add somewhere "press spacebar to select the option" because this really counter-intuitive in my opinion.

P.S. 2 Here is my default terminal function:

Code:

#!/bin/ash
if [ ! -z "`which urxvt`" ]; then
  exec urxvt "$@"
elif [ ! -z "`which xterm`" ]; then
  exec xterm "$@"
elif [ ! -z "`which lxterm`" ]; then
  exec lxterm "$@"
elif [ ! -z "`which sakura`" ]; then
  exec sakura "$@"
elif [ ! -z "`which roxterm`" ]; then
  exec roxterm "$@"
elif [ ! -z "`which roxterm`" ]; then
  exec roxterm "$@"
fi

/usr/local/bin/defaultterminal

I didn't realize that these default functions were missing. The multiple option aspect of this is something that I innovated for TazPup64

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun 2019, 00:37    Post subject:  

hi s243a

i think you made it clear when you posted the isos
that they were prealpha
maybe that was just missed

anyway good to see you have a little time to work on your project
but take it easy
and dont let me rush you into posting an iso before you are ready
i have the isos you already posted to play with
and can see that things are moving along fine

anyway im reading your posts and your code
your system looks very powerful

very cool

regards

wanderer
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2144

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun 2019, 15:20    Post subject:  

I noticed that sort from coreutils didn't get installed:
Code:

+ cp repo-ascii-i386/coreutils_8.26-3_i386.deb chroot-ascii-i386/tmp
+ chroot chroot-ascii-i386 /usr/bin/dpkg --force-all --unpack /tmp/coreutils_8.26-3_i386.deb
Selecting previously unselected package coreutils.
(Reading database ... 3014 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack /tmp/coreutils_8.26-3_i386.deb ...
Unpacking coreutils (8.26-3) ...
....
dpkg: warning: trying to overwrite '/usr/bin/sort', which is also in package puppy-tinycore9_base_gz 1.0
dpkg: warning: overriding problem because --force enabled:


I'm going to try changing --force-all to --force-overwrite

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2144

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun 2019, 17:03    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:

its really a very simple and flexible system

1. tinycore is the base and the base repositories
its very easy to modify
the core.gz and the tcz files

2. to add things
obtain an app as a deb sfs or pet
unsquash it with uextract
resolve its dependencies with ldd
squash it back up with mksquashfs
and you have a new component

you could make a universal recipe/script
to do this with any component
from any source puppy devuan etc

and you can add the symlinked /root/apps directory system
if you didnt want to make it into a tcz

there is a endless number of other things you could do
and all of them are very simple to accomplish

in fact most of these things are already done
and there is no need to reinvent the wheel

remember this thread is to find
an alternative puppy build system
not to be locked into a particular inefficient structure
just because of tradition

what is your opinion on all this

i look forward to hearing from you

regards

wanderer


Hello Wander. Regarding item#2. I think it might be nice to add some kind of dependency resolution and download for the portable browser installer. While JRBs version provided some dependencies, I have discovered that one might in some cases need more dependencies than what was provided by JRB. Also JRBs version is restricted to 32bits. If we are downloading the dependencies then we don't have to restrict the portable browser installer to 32 bits.

You mention that something like this is available in dcore, so maybe the scripts in dcore can be used as a starting point.

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2144

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2019, 00:04    Post subject:  

I have discovered why "pkg" probably wasn't properly updating my repo files. If I look in:

Code:

if [ "$DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION" = "" ] ; then
   [ -f ./DISTRO_SPECS ] && . ./DISTRO_SPECS
fi
...
PKG_DOCS_DISTRO_COMPAT="
z|http://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}/main/binary-${DBIN_ARCH}/Packages.${DDB_COMP}|Packages-devuan-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-main
z|http://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}/contrib/binary-${DBIN_ARCH}/Packages.${DDB_COMP}|Packages-devuan-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-contrib
z|http://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}/non-free/binary-${DBIN_ARCH}/Packages.${DDB_COMP}|Packages-devuan-${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}-non-free
"

woof-code/rootfs-packages/puppy_ppm_configs_devaun_ascii/var/packages/DISTRO_COMPAT_REPOS#L24

The offending variable here is, "${DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION}". It is defined in PET_SPECS which is created here:

Code:

   > $initrdtmp/DISTRO_SPECS cat << EOF
DISTRO_NAME='$SOURCE Puppy'
DISTRO_VERSION='$DISTRO_VERSION'
DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT='$SOURCE'
DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX='$SOURCE'
DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION='$SOURCE'
DISTRO_XORG_AUTO='yes'
DISTRO_TARGETARCH='$TARGET_ARCH'
DISTRO_DB_SUBNAME='$SOURCE'
DISTRO_PUPPYSFS=$PUPPY_SFS
$(echo_sfs_drvs)
EOF

/builders/build-iso.sh#L117

The key line here is this:
Code:

DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION='$SOURCE'


the variable source is defined in the build.conf of my working directory:
Code:

SOURCE='tiny_devuan'


this is wrong DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION should be equal to "ascii". I'm not sure why all these DISTRO_SPECS fields are asigned the SOURCE variable in woof-next.

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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1828
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PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2019, 05:05    Post subject:  

mistfire also produced a puppy package manager, but I can't remember if it was also dependent on PPM, and if so, how much. Nor do I know what its facilities or accuracy is compared to sc0ttman's pkg. I did note mistfire posted about a recent update a couple of months ago but would have to search for the thread.

wiak

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2144

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2019, 14:47    Post subject:  

wiak wrote:
mistfire also produced a puppy package manager, but I can't remember if it was also dependent on PPM, and if so, how much. Nor do I know what its facilities or accuracy is compared to sc0ttman's pkg. I did note mistfire posted about a recent update a couple of months ago but would have to search for the thread.

wiak


This is the thread:

Puppy Package Manager (modified) v3.0

My focus is on pkg now but I will eventually check to see if pkg can coexist with mistire's version. I suspect it can and mistfire has proposed some improvment's to sc0tmann's pkg.

Anyway, I will add mistfire's package manager to:

woof-CE/woof-code/rootfs-packages/

and I will create a svn based script that will allow people to install packages from this directory.

If mistfire's version can coexist with pkg, then I think it will be a good thing because I believe that mistfire's version is easier to configure (e.g. add repos).

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2144

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2019, 14:56    Post subject:  

I was able to get pkg to properly update the devuan repo. See post:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1029993#1029993

This involved fixing my DISTRO_SPECS file.

I paced it in a subfolder of the following path:
woof-CE/woof-distro/x86/tiny_devuan/ascii/fs_basesfs/

The idea of this path is to put files that are specific to a particular distro release. Currently the only file here is /etc/DISTRO_SPECS

I also added code in buid-iso.sh to to copy this file into the the initrd file if it exists and otherwise use default values:

Code:

if [ ! -f "$CHROOT_DIR/etc/DISTRO_SPECS" ]; then
   # create minimal distro specs, read woof's docs to get the meaning
   > $initrdtmp/DISTRO_SPECS cat << EOF
DISTRO_NAME='$SOURCE Puppy'
DISTRO_VERSION='$DISTRO_VERSION'
DISTRO_BINARY_COMPAT='$SOURCE'
DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX='$SOURCE'
DISTRO_COMPAT_VERSION='$SOURCE'
DISTRO_XORG_AUTO='yes'
DISTRO_TARGETARCH='$TARGET_ARCH'
DISTRO_DB_SUBNAME='$SOURCE'
DISTRO_PUPPYSFS=$PUPPY_SFS
$(echo_sfs_drvs)
EOF
else
  cp "$CHROOT_DIR/etc/DISTRO_SPECS" "$initrdtmp/DISTRO_SPECS"
fi

/builders/build-iso.sh#L115

It is better if this file exists. Otherwise the puppy package manager won't work properly.

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s243a

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Posts: 2144

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2019, 15:13    Post subject:  

Some more notes:

I added the following statment to keep pkg from overwriting libc6
Code:

%chroot mkdir -p /var/packages
#Keep pkg from installing libc6 (this avoids segmentation fault)
%chroot cp /var/lib/dpkg/info/libc6.list /var/packages/builtin_files/libc6

/woof-distro/x86/tiny_devuan/ascii/basesfs#L54

To make firefox work I added (or re-added the following):
Code:

libglib2.0-0       #Dependency of libdbus-glib-1-2
libdbus-glib-1-2   #Required for firefox
libwayland-client0 #Dependency for yad, libegl1-mesa, libgbm1, firefox

/woof-distro/x86/tiny_devuan/ascii/basesfs#L136

I was able to get firefox running in a chroot, although it gave me an erroneous crash report when I closed it. I will do a clean run now and try building an iso Smile

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 1112

PostPosted: Sun 09 Jun 2019, 12:23    Post subject:  

hi all

this thread is to develop an alternative to woof-ce
for the common man who cannot use woof-ce

it is not meant to replace or compete with woof-ce
the gurus who can use woof-ce
make great distros that are the equal of any on distrowatch
i am using one now upupbb32
and it is a masterpiece

on the other end

s243a is developing a sophisticated and powerful variant
of woof-next that includes puppy tinycore and devuan elements

my contribution to all this
is a very simple build system
that uses tinycore as a base
since tinycore has the structure that i feel is most efficient

my system is so simple
that the only skill anyone will need
to use and develop it
is to be able to read English

for example to modify the the core.gz
it uses a simple cpio script

to modify the sfs and tcz files
it uses a simple script with uextract and mksquahfs

it is called the delta project
for the symbol for change
since if we cannot change puppy
we cannot improve it

the first iso delta-1.iso
has been posted on the repository on the first post

i will continue to develop it over time
and post additional isos as they are completed
whoever is interested is welcome to follow along

why am i doing this you may ask
well
first for my own amusement
and second in the hope
that it may be interesting and useful to others

i will post again when i have something to add

comments are welcome

have fun
and have a nice day

wanderer
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s243a

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Posts: 2144

PostPosted: Sat 15 Jun 2019, 20:11    Post subject:  

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e4hgfctfpbd25y4/tiny_puduan_ascii-PreAlpha6.iso?dl=0
*Not for use
**tested on qemu

I'm having an issue with the consoles/terminals. See thread:
JWM not opening a new Virtual Terminal Sad -- A Hacky workaround.

What is happening is if I specify in the .desktop file that the ap should be run in a terminal, all output is going to ttyl1 rather than one of the virtual terminals. Also once I exit the window manager the keyboard stops working. I wonder if the keyboard settings being applied when the window manager starts are not supposed to be applied to ttyl1.

Some other comments:
- with my workaround (see above link), the portable browser installer and midnight commander are running from the menu.
- I installed: geany, full perl and X11 apps
- Some process is moving the libs to the non arch folders so I created a symlinks from the arch folders to the new locations. (not sure what is causing this)
- I installed mistfire's package manager but it isn't working write. Use the following command to start ig:
Code:

ppm

- as before sc0tmann's package manager is installed. It also comes with a gui but there are some issues with it. Perhaps due to my configuration.
- wbar is installed but not configured (it's a side panel)

I did not install petget before installing either mistfire's or sc0tmann's package manager. This could be the cause of some issues. "X11 aps" was installed because the puppy startups scripts called xload. However, this isn't needed and we don't use the other X11 aps. Full Perl isn't required but the only reason I installed it is that I was troubleshooting the perl in urxvt. Future isos will likely not have full-perl.

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