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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Puppy Power
Back to Ubuntu? Arrrgh.....!!
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5548
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2019, 10:23    Post subject:  Back to Ubuntu? Arrrgh.....!!
Subject description: I must want my head examining. It was a NIGHTMARE.....
 

Afternoon, all.

I've just had one of the most frustrating experiences I've had for years.

I started out in Linux with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, 'Trusty Tahr', a little over 5 years back. At the time, it was quite an adventure, one which I lapped up, and relished the challenge of doing something different after decades over on the 'dark side'. I soon gave up on it after a few months, and moved to Puppy, which was far kinder to the elderly hardware.

I don't what put the idea into my head, but I d/l'ed the 2nd 'point release' of 'Bionic Beaver', 18.04.2 LTS, last night, burnt it to DVD, and took it for a test run. It looked all very slick & polished - I definitely prefer the GNOME desktop to Unity, with its horrendous 3D hardware acceleration demands; everything seemed to work fine (even Cheese, which I've been trying to get to work in Puppy on & off this last couple of years).....so I decided to install it properly, and have a play with it.

I will confess, I think Puppy's spoiled me this last few years. (And to think I complain about having to run the odd app as 'spot'..!)

I'd forgotten how frickin' awkward mainstream Linux distros can be to work with. In Puppy, you can do exactly what you want.....the responsibility for anything going wrong is squarely on your own shoulders. So you learn to be careful as you have fun with her.

I couldn't even import bookmarks to Firefox. Despite copying them across from Pup's 'my-documents' folder, and chowning permissions to 'mike:mike', Firefox wasn't having it. They'd import OK.....but steadfastly refused to show up. Anywhere.

Even Fred's 'portable-Firefox' won't run. I confess, I was fairly certain it would, but....no. Ubuntu won't execute Bash text-files, even if marked to do so, and encouraged to start via 'sudo'. It just opens them in a text editor....

Huh????

Canonical are so determined to insulate the user from any possible consequence of their own actions, it's ridiculous. 'Sudo this...' 'Sudo that...' 'Not allowed to do this.....' 'Can't do that...' 'You don't have permissions....'

Ah, to hell with all that!

I don't care if I make a hash of my Pups. It takes 5 minutes to back-up even my sizeable save-files (regularly performed once a month on average), so what does it matter? Personal data is, of course, all on external media.....the internal drives are all OS stuff.

It also took over half-an-hour to register for an Ubuntu Single Sign On a/c to get permission for a new feature Canonical are calling 'live-patch'.....certain kernel-mod 'upgrades' that don't require a re-boot. Every attempt I made to register (and I must have tried over 30 variations on a user-name) was met with a point-blank refusal, and a repetition of the same old refrain; something about the number of letters and numbers, upper- and lower-case not being 'recognisable'. Whaaat???

It amazes me that Ubuntu is still so popular, when they put obstacles like that in the user's way.....

-----------------------------------------

Oh, no doubt I could sort the problems out given time (and the inclination!), but this old dog's getting to the stage where I'm happy with what I know, and don't need all that hassle. I'm content with the Puppy community, good friends and all.

My 'Ubuntu experiment' lasted all of about 90 minutes. Including the 25 minutes install time (used to be 20, but it's almost double the size it used to be. Was once around a gig, now almost 2...)

If I ever make any tentative noises about trying this sort of thing again, I'd appreciate it if y'all would give me a good smack round the head....

Nightmare!!! Never again.

PUPPY ROOLZ, YEAH!!!!!


Mike. Wink

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2019, 11:00    Post subject:  

Hi Mike, yeah, I feel with you, all these permission issues, we "run-as-root" users are not used to that, we are spoiled Wink
But on the other hand, most main distro's work that way being logged-in as normal user, so apparently lots of people have found their way to use it, using sudo etc, or some may have configured the system to login as root (which is possible, but can be a big struggle to find out how, btw).
Also, a "true multi-user system" may be what many people want.

Fred

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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
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Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2019, 11:51    Post subject:  

Hi, Fred.

Nah, when I started with Linux a few years back, I naturally went with Ubuntu as the 'first-time' thing; everybody and his dog ( Laughing ) was recommending it as the distro for newbies.

And at that time, I was happy to spend hours 'sorting' problems out.....and considered it time well-spent.

Nowadays, well; I'm a few years older, and having been with Pup for a while I like to think I'm starting to know what I'm doing with her at long last. Conventional Linux is like learning a whole new language all over again.....and I no longer have the patience, or the inclination.

I was surprised your 'portable-Firefox' wouldn't fire up, though; when I tried it in AntiX a year or so back (also now consigned to the history books), it behaved itself, and started up straight away, as good as gold. I think Canonical must have toughened up some of their security protocols, but I can no longer be arsed to figure it all out!

I now know for definite that with Puppy I've truly found 'the one for me'. Long may she continue.


Mike. Wink

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Terry H

Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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Location: The Heart of Muskoka, ON Canada

PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2019, 13:11    Post subject:  

Mike, your little adventure reminds me of a very old cartoon Tooter Turtle... Drizzle, drazzle,drizzle drone..time for this on to come home..
Last edited by Terry H on Fri 31 May 2019, 14:13; edited 1 time in total
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s243a

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PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2019, 13:48    Post subject:  

IN Ubuntu are you running the portable firefox as a non-root user?
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
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PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2019, 14:25    Post subject:  

Usually the way I fix this is to install roxfiler and change the permissions and make executable - I do this in Refracta.

Strangly in Refracta had trouble running a portable seamonkey but you're portable sse Palemoon portable did once downloaded.
But yeah we take running as root for granted.

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s243a

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PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2019, 14:44    Post subject:  

delete
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2019, 14:46    Post subject:  

darry19662018 wrote:
Usually the way I fix this is to install roxfiler and change the permissions and make executable - I do this in Refracta.

Strangly in Refracta had trouble running a portable seamonkey but you're portable sse Palemoon portable did once downloaded.
But yeah we take running as root for granted.


One could just go chmod +x.

which makes me wonder if the portable version of firefox is giving executable permission to world. I had a simmilar kind of issue on my work developing TazPup64. See thread:
A script to fix Directory Permissions

Puppy might by default only gives executable permission to root (i.e. the user) and spot (i.e. the group), since by default files in puppylinux age given group=spot

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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
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Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2019, 16:16    Post subject:  

s243a wrote:
IN Ubuntu are you running the portable firefox as a non-root user?


Yep.

I doubt it's got anything to do with permissions, even though the whole thing was chowned to my user directory (using the recursive -R) to avoid this kind of problem.

It worked fine in AntiX after doing just that. AntiX is Debian-based, with exactly the same kind of owner/permissions structure and set-up. One wonders what changes Canonical have made to Ubuntu in recent versions; it may be Debian-based, but a lot of Ubuntu stuff is uniquely Canonical in nature. This is my first try-out of Ubuntu 'proper' for nearly 5 years; a lot can change over that kind of time-frame.

I mean, who else but Canonical would spend 5 years trying to develop a brand-new, unique display server (Mir), only to promptly bin it as soon as they realized it wasn't going to be adopted by the community at large.....? Shuttleworth must have money to burn, given that Canonical has consistently made a loss ever since going public as a limited company; after all, it's no secret that only his personal fortune has kept the company afloat.

I'm sticking with Pup from now on. She'll do for me; her binaries may mostly be from Ubuntu, but the way she works is a hell of a lot simpler & more comprehensible.

(*At my time of life, 'simple & comprehensible' is good! I get easily confused... Laughing*)


Mike. Wink

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s243a

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PostPosted: Fri 31 May 2019, 16:30    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
s243a wrote:
IN Ubuntu are you running the portable firefox as a non-root user?


Yep.

I doubt it's got anything to do with permissions, even though the whole thing was chowned to my user directory (using the recursive -R) to avoid this kind of problem.

It worked fine in AntiX after doing just that. AntiX is Debian-based, with exactly the same kind of owner/permissions structure and set-up. One wonders what changes Canonical have made to Ubuntu in recent versions; it may be Debian-based, but a lot of Ubuntu stuff is uniquely Canonical in nature. This is my first try-out of Ubuntu 'proper' for nearly 5 years; a lot can change over that kind of time-frame.

I mean, who else but Canonical would spend 5 years trying to develop a brand-new, unique display server (Mir), only to promptly bin it as soon as they realized it wasn't going to be adopted by the community at large.....? Shuttleworth must have money to burn, given that Canonical has consistently made a loss ever since going public as a limited company; after all, it's no secret that only his personal fortune has kept the company afloat.

I'm sticking with Pup from now on. She'll do for me; her b inaries may mostly be from Ubuntu, but the way she works is a hell of a lot simpler & more comprehensible.

(*At my time of life, 'simple & comprehensible' is good! I get easily confused... Laughing*)


Mike. Wink


I wonder if LD_LIBRARY_PATH is getting ignored for some reason. The portable firefox prepends some directories to LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Maybe do an strace to see where is is looking for thing like apulse.

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bigpup


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PostPosted: Sat 01 Jun 2019, 00:24    Post subject:  

The dark force is strong, but resist you must!

There is a more powerful force in the universe.

We are Puppy.
Resistance is futile.

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Lobster
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PostPosted: Sat 01 Jun 2019, 02:36    Post subject:    

Very Happy

these bigdog pseudo/sudo have little to offer us ..

Icreate 199 (for MacOs, IOS and Iphone, Ipad etc) has an article on running Linux on your MacOS. Which Linux do they use? Puppy Linux 8 BionicPup.

That's right to get your Apple device working properly .... run Puppy on it ...

Simpler, Better, Faster
Iz Puppy Masterplan ...

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01101001b


Joined: 08 Mar 2017
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jul 2019, 15:59    Post subject: Re: Back to Ubuntu? Arrrgh.....!!
Subject description: I must want my head examining. It was a NIGHTMARE.....
 

Mike Walsh wrote:
I'd forgotten how frickin' awkward mainstream Linux distros can be to work with. In Puppy, you can do exactly what you want

Your conclusion, sir, is quite spot on Cool
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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 1426
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon 22 Jul 2019, 18:59    Post subject:  

Quote:
quite spot on


I'd say root on, rather than spot on Very Happy
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8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 2083
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Tue 23 Jul 2019, 19:28    Post subject:  

So its Puppy 4-the-Win.
A job well done.
Thanks to all.

Regards
8Geee

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