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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Just a thought: chunderdog
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mistfire

Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 1144
Location: PH

PostPosted: Fri 14 Jun 2019, 20:12    Post subject:  Just a thought: chunderdog
Subject description: chrooted underdog concept
 

Since underdog linux is retired. I think of a new approach based from chroot approach. It works like an underdog but chrooted compared to mount at bottom layer

Here is my thought:

1. Create folders
/var/vfs/pup_ud (bottom)
/var/vfs/sys_vfs (middle)
/var/vfs/rw (top)

2. Mount linux partition read-only at /var/vfs/pup_ud (bottom)
3. Mount bind /dev /proc, /sys, and /tmp at /var/vfs/sys_vfs (middle)
4. Mount the /var/vfs/folders as aufs
5. Generate desktop files with chroot command embedded

Upon shutdown, the generated desktop-files will be deleted

Since it was chrooted, the most tricky part was to saved files and apply xdg file association which like part of a system not isolated one

UPDATE: It works as of now but need more improvements

Last edited by mistfire on Tue 18 Jun 2019, 00:45; edited 2 times in total
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1417
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 15 Jun 2019, 05:52    Post subject:  

I think suggestion is the same (or very similar, except for your planning to mount proc etc in middle layer) as being done in FirstRib leading to one version of WeeDog:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1029315#1029315

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1025462#1025462

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1027227#1027227

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1030336#1030336

Having said that, FirstRib is being developed to test out both the above chroot overlay (preferred) or aufs fs methods but also more traditional initramfs switch_root (and perhaps also pivot_root with chroot) type boots.

Your middle layer would have to be a read/write layer of course, for proc etc, so maybe only possible with aufs? As far as I remember, but would have to re-read kernel notes on overlayfs, result is undefined according to specs of overlayfs if middle layer used as read/write?).

Looking forward to your own trials/test-code though, since the more code examples and developments like this the better!

wiak

EDIT: By the way, in English, chunder means to vomit, so maybe not the best name... Wink

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Terry H

Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 612
Location: The Heart of Muskoka, ON Canada

PostPosted: Sat 15 Jun 2019, 09:47    Post subject:  

wiak wrote:


EDIT: By the way, in English, chunder means to vomit, so maybe not the best name... Wink


I had quite a chuckle when I read the title. In the words of Men at Work, immortalized in song:
"I come from a land down under where beer does flow and men chunder".

So now having had a laugh, i congratulate both of you for your many contributions and innovations to puppy. Your contributions are very much appreciated.
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1885

PostPosted: Sat 15 Jun 2019, 11:31    Post subject:  

I look forward to seeing how chunderdog works. It sounds interesting Smile. On another note I don't think that underdog should be retired. If you happen do do a woof-CE fork that keeps underdog, please let us know Smile.
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mistfire

Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 1144
Location: PH

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 10:12    Post subject:  

Update:
It works but here are some observations

1. Binded mountpoints /dev, /sys, /proc, and /tmp does not appear on top layer when mounted on middle layer. It requires to bind mount on top layer

2. Chrooted rootfs can see host /root, /media, and /mnt by mount binding on top layer

3. Auto generation of chrooted desktop files works but need to deal with Icons.

@s243a underdog was removed from woof-ce github. So an alternative solution is needed.
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1885

PostPosted: Mon 17 Jun 2019, 10:25    Post subject:  

mistfire wrote:
Update:
It works but here are some observations

1. Binded mountpoints /dev, /sys, /proc, and /tmp does not appear on top layer when mounted on middle layer. It requires to bind mount on top layer

2. Chrooted rootfs can see host /root, /media, and /mnt by mount binding on top layer

3. Auto generation of chrooted desktop files works but need to deal with Icons.

@s243a underdog was removed from woof-ce github. So an alternative solution is needed.


Unless you want to maintain a separate fork of alternatively unless it is possible to provide underdog as a pet.

That all said perhaps the chunderdog idea is superior and none of these above two alternatives are necessary. I look forward to seeing how this progresses Smile

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mistfire

Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 1144
Location: PH

PostPosted: Tue 18 Jun 2019, 00:43    Post subject:  

Here is a simple chunderdog demo that I made

How to use this script:
1. Puppy host
2. You need an installed linux distro on a partition
3. Type this command on terminal
Code:
 ./chunderdog.sh [target linux partition]


4. It will enter chrooted shell, minimize the terminal
5. You will now see the additional applications came from other linux distro on Applications Menu. Also the underdog apps have file association too (for xdg-compliant file managers)
6. To quit the demo. Restore the minimized terminal and type "exit"

Also I need help to implement the following on chunderdog
1. Make /var/vfs/ro_layer/usr/share/icons and /var/vfs/ro_layer/usr/share/mime visible on host
2. Run services/daemons from chrooted underdog and stop them also upon exiting chrooted underdog
chunderdog.sh.zip
Description  Initial demo script

* Just remove .zip extension and set file permission to +x
zip

 Download 
Filename  chunderdog.sh.zip 
Filesize  3.04 KB 
Downloaded  8 Time(s) 
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