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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Ubuntu Dropping All 32-bit Support Going Forward
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labbe5

Joined: 13 Nov 2013
Posts: 1815
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue 18 Jun 2019, 15:20    Post subject:  Ubuntu Dropping All 32-bit Support Going Forward  

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/06/ubuntu-is-dropping-all-32-bit-support-going-forward

Ubuntu has confirmed plans to drop all support for 32-bit (i386) systems going forward, beginning with the upcoming Ubuntu 19.10 release.

Maintaining packages for the i386 architecture is simply more hassle than its worth with only around 1% of Ubuntu’s current user base running 32-bit systems.

I have one laptop running on i386 architecture. One day, despite using Linux, i will have to put it down.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1482
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Jun 2019, 21:58    Post subject:  

Use Void Linux (and also avoids systemd), or FirstRib void flavor in a chroot on existing 32bit systems, come to that.

wiak

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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 04:15    Post subject:  

Quote: "[i]Maintaining packages for the i386 architecture is simply more hassle than its worth with only around 1% of Ubuntu’s current user base running 32-bit systems."

I have never bought into this excuse and I challenge the authenticity of that 1% figure.

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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5134
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 10:46    Post subject:  

I tend to agree with you, Darren.

Okay, perhaps 1% is right for Ubuntu proper; Lord knows, current releases have been getting heavier & heavier as the years go by, with the end result that my elderly dual-core 64-bit desktop is starting to struggle with 64-bit Ubuntu releases! Though I confess, the problem there is instruction sets; the Athlon64 X2 is a very early, almost first-generation 64-bit CPU, at the time of its release intended to steal Intel's thunder vis-a-vis the original Pentium 4s.....we're only looking at SSE3s.

But Linux as a whole, across the entire spectrum of distros available out there.....no. And bearing in mind that Linux is intended to keep old hardware serviceable, it hardly makes sense to exclude the hundreds of thousands of perfectly functional 32-bit machines still out there.

Trouble is, so many of the alternatives base themselves on Ubuntu, one way or another. I was thinking about this last night; Puppies of the future may have to begin basing themselves on something other than Ubuntu...'cos even on a 64-bit box, my 32-bitzers still run snappier than the 64-bit ones do.

We all know that Shuttleworth fancies himself as the 'Bill Gates' of the Linux world, with the outcome being that modern Ubuntu is meant to run on brand-new, up-to-date hardware..! Rolling Eyes

What's the current 'state-of-play' over at Debian themselves? My experience with the current DPup, 'Stretch' 7.5, has been extremely favourable.

What are their intentions? Any ideas?


Mike. Wink

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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 11:57    Post subject:  

this idea that we need to chase the latest greatest machine to run the OS is frustrating........and what about the rest of the world?
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 14:50    Post subject:  

At the Moment I am working for a Refuse Park and a lot of 32bit machines are being left there so there is still plenty out there to be recycled with Puppy.Smile

As an aside Debian is going to go wayland I don't know how this will work in Puppy?

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14225
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 14:50    Post subject:  

It's discrimination against people on a tight budget...
(Not to mention the temporarily or permanently poor.)

@MIke_Walsh:
I read somewhere that Debian has a more realistic view, and will keep offering 32-bit
versions for a while.

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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 15:00    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
It's discrimination against people on a tight budget...
(Not to mention the temporarily or permanently poor.)

@MIke_Walsh:
I read somewhere that Debian has a more realistic view, and will keep offering 32-bit
versions for a while.


Agreed.

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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5134
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 15:15    Post subject:  

@ musher0:-

Thanks for the info, musher!

rockedge wrote:
this idea that we need to chase the latest greatest machine to run the OS is frustrating........and what about the rest of the world?


Too true, rockedge, too true. Y'know, I always thought that was MyCrudSoft's 'province'; update the OS, upgrade the hardware to be able to run it.....



At least we have the satisfaction of knowing there'll be plenty of 32-bit Puppies left to run on all that abandoned 32-bit hardware for a good few years yet. Little wonder I'm beginning to embrace the school of thought that says

"Puppy Roolz!"


Mike. Wink

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1942

PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 15:26    Post subject:  

darry19662018 wrote:

I have never bought into this excuse and I challenge the authenticity of that 1% figure.


It probably doesn't include derivates of Ubuntu (like UPup Bionic Beaver) and people running very old versions of Ubuntu.

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 16:30    Post subject:  

Remember when it was all about 16bit to 32bit.
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/viewpoints/rest-in-peace-the-16-bit-processor-2006-04/

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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Jun 2019, 16:43    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Remember when it was all about 16bit to 32bit.
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/viewpoints/rest-in-peace-the-16-bit-processor-2006-04/


The performance gains in going from 16bits to 32bits was much more significant than the supposed performance gains in going from 32bit to 64bit systems. The reason is that as you add more ram you end up with I/O bottlenecks between the ram and the CPU. System try to get around this by adding more cpu cache but this significantly increases the energy usage of the system (and might also mean a reliance on things like predictive execution?).

The extra cpu cache negates the supposed energy saving of 64bit systems and if predictive execution is required then this potentially creates security risks.

Anyway, I suspect in part due to the above reasons (but also in part due to economics) many new computers don't come with enough ram to truly get significant performance gains from using 64bits.

I will also note that when people say that ram is cheap, that is a pretty privileged thing to say. For the majority of people ram is not cheap.

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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
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Location: Rakaia

PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun 2019, 02:24    Post subject:  

By the way can anybody tell me if the Debian move to wayland? - will wayland work with Puppy?
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LNSmith


Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 27
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun 2019, 05:35    Post subject: Ubuntu Dropping All 32-bit Support Going Forward
Subject description: The need to continue development for 32-bit processors
 

32 bit computing vs 64 bit computing.
The eternal search for something bigger.
The cost of "bigger".

I find 32 bit processors have enough processing power to meet ALL my needs.

All my computing is done on machines that are (at least) 15 years old and I'm currently considering moving from a 3GHz desktop BACK to a 1.6 or 1.8GHz laptop. The reason? Power consumption. My desktop consumes approx 250W. A laptop consumes approx 60W but will supply all the processing power I need. Over time this saving in power (about 450kWh every year) is a significant saving for me as an individual. If thousands (or tens of thousands) of PC users made this change the result would be a significant reduction in CO2 pouring into the atmosphere.

Hence: I support the on-going maintenance (and development) of software for 32 bit systems.

Les (fr. Australia where life is good).
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 468
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Jun 2019, 07:57    Post subject:  

Exactly there are some nice 32bit machines around the more than adequatly cope with the demands of modern computer use and Linux is supposed to be the answer - as far as I am concerned the ever increasing bloat code introduced into Linux like systemad is part of the problem of the so called 32bit being hard to maintain.

Slackware a fine example of a Linux distro that stuck to tradition and is still around - it is just to use a technical expression a load of hogwash.

End of Rant for now - now putting away my pulpit:)

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