Ubuntu Dropping All 32-bit Support Going Forward

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s243a · #21 Post by **s243a** » Sat 22 Jun 2019, 16:04

Mike Walsh wrote:I reckon this one's gonna run & run....

Just been reading on one of the Linux gaming forums. There's all sorts of conspiracy theories flying around, left, right & centre. Most Linux gamers are of the firm opinion that this will mean the death of Linux, stat. To them, Linux=Ubuntu. In their narrow opinion, Canonical dropping multi-lib support will push Linux down to 0% market share, and all the Linux developers will shut up shop and go home.....

I'm surprised that even gamers are complaining here given that you would expect that gamers would have the best hardware!

rockedge · #22 Post by **rockedge** » Sat 22 Jun 2019, 17:03

I have a 64 bit DELL PowerEdge 210 blade server..it was given to me for free when a big factory swapped in new ones....could run virtual machines, so many in fact I could have an entire network of computers in one box.
This baby ran Windows Server then Redhat Linux then PROXMOX but I can tell you the best running extremely fastest OS is? Puppy Linux Bionix32-v8...actually any 32 bit Puppy is so fast I see no need to go to 64 bit..which I have also because you wanna know why? Because I can stuff like 50 different frugally installed versions of Puppy on this thing side by side.

It would be arrogantly dumb to only develop 64 and discontinue 32 bit.

dancytron · #23 Post by **dancytron** » Sat 22 Jun 2019, 19:29

rockedge wrote:I have a 64 bit DELL PowerEdge 210 blade server..it was given to me for free when a big factory swapped in new ones....could run virtual machines, so many in fact I could have an entire network of computers in one box.
This baby ran Windows Server then Redhat Linux then PROXMOX but I can tell you the best running extremely fastest OS is? Puppy Linux Bionix32-v8...actually any 32 bit Puppy is so fast I see no need to go to 64 bit..which I have also because you wanna know why? Because I can stuff like 50 different frugally installed versions of Puppy on this thing side by side.

It would be arrogantly dumb to only develop 64 and discontinue 32 bit.

The big names like Ubuntu may drop out, but there will always be enough demand to support some 32 bit distros.

You can still buy Black and White film and record players.

wiak · #24 Post by **wiak** » Sun 23 Jun 2019, 04:48

On 10 or 11 year old laptops, like mine, 32bit OS probably works slightly better, though difference isn't too noticeable. The problem, however, is that more and more application software isn't being provided with 32-bit versions anymore - hence I moved to 64-bit so I don't need to think about it. However, I do keep 32bit frugal installs on my dev system so anything I work on can be tested, best I can, for 32bit systems too.

wiak

Mike Walsh · #25 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Sun 23 Jun 2019, 13:05

s243a wrote:
Mike Walsh wrote:I reckon this one's gonna run & run....

Just been reading on one of the Linux gaming forums. There's all sorts of conspiracy theories flying around, left, right & centre. Most Linux gamers are of the firm opinion that this will mean the death of Linux, stat. To them, Linux=Ubuntu. In their narrow opinion, Canonical dropping multi-lib support will push Linux down to 0% market share, and all the Linux developers will shut up shop and go home.....
I'm surprised that even gamers are complaining here given that you would expect that gamers would have the best hardware!

It's not so much to do with the hardware side of things, as the fact that an awful lot of 'legacy' games (which were only ever built as 32-bit applications) won't be supported. Not all gamers want to play the very newest stuff all the time; many, it appears, spend most of their time playing nothing but older games.

And the big fly in the ointment is Valve; Steam, it appears, is 32-bit only.....so multi-lib support is essential. Even for 64-bit stuff.

Mike.

rockedge · #26 Post by **rockedge** » Sun 23 Jun 2019, 16:06

@dancytron

true, I do still use 8mm film and really like record players and vinyl but I notice in the movie biz in which I work as a Gaffer that even in the early 2000's there was film stock that we were not able to get any more. I worked on a movie filmed in Germany and we started off using Fuji 800 ISO PrimeTime film.....half way through principle shooting the camera crew could not get any more PrimeTime film stock....discontinued....... our focus puller called all over the world to find some to finish the movie or we would have had to start over with another film type. Finally a small warehouse in Illinois had just enough with some wiggle room to get the job done. EXPENSIVE over night delivery to Hamburg Germany from some small photography supply firm in western Illinois that had this high quality film in the required amount.

I also have some machines run 64 bit OS's and really seem to work well with Tahr64 through to Bionic64. And will happily run Ubuntu in both variants.

bigpup · #27 Post by **bigpup** » Sun 23 Jun 2019, 17:15

There are reports all over the web about Steam and Ubuntu.
Example:

Steam Won't Support Ubuntu 19.10 and Future Releases. ... A Valve developer announced that Steam won't officially support Ubuntu 19.10 or future releases. Ubuntu-based Linux distributions are also affected. This is all because Canonical announced plans to drop 32-bit packages and libraries from Ubuntu 19.10.

A lot of Linux games on Steam are 32bit of need 32bit support.

darry19662018 · #28 Post by **darry19662018** » Mon 24 Jun 2019, 07:51

Lol don't know if anybody has read this but....
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/ ... t-librarie

mouldy · #29 Post by **mouldy** » Mon 24 Jun 2019, 08:59

Notice newest Fedora 30 and Debian Buster still offering new full 32bit versions, not just multiarch support for 32bit. I suspect long as Debian and Fedora are interested enough to offer, that 32bit will be around for a while. Linux is not just Ubuntu.

Also notice Microsoft isnt ditching 32bit version win10 though it really was only ever preinstalled on some netbook/cloudbook/tablets with certain atom processors.

32bit is waning but suspect more of gradual demise than Ubuntu decision would indicate. And when it does finally end, people can always run an older distribution in virtual machine to use older software. There are still useful 16bit programs from DOS and win3.1 era. No new software for long time though.

Mike Walsh · #30 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Mon 24 Jun 2019, 10:26

darry19662018 wrote:Lol don't know if anybody has read this but....
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/ ... t-librarie

Yeah, I was reading on here just yesterday, mate. In fact, I've just posted a comment in this thread, though as a new user, my post is currently awaiting moderation.

Just letting 'em know how we tackle this kind of issue in Puppy. Like, if we can't find what we want in the PPM (or in another Pup), then we'll 'poach' it from somewhere else...!!

Too many people rely on the package management system to do everything for them....and when it doesn't, they bitch & moan, rather than getting off their backsides and actually doing something about it.....

It's one thing you can do with Linux. There's a 'manual' solution to every problem, if you're determined enough.

------------------

@ mouldy:-

32bit is waning but suspect more of gradual demise than Ubuntu decision would indicate. And when it does finally end, people can always run an older distribution in virtual machine to use older software. There are still useful 16bit programs from DOS and win3.1 era. No new software for long time though.

Canonical, being the 'market leader', realise that once they make a decision, then over half of all distros will sooner or later follow suit. So they've decided, "Let's PUSH this; it's needed doing for long enough".

Trouble is, most of their wacky decisions/projects don't actually resonate with the very user-base they're trying to appeal to.....

You've 'dropped the ball', Mark. Again...

Mike.

666philb · #31 Post by **666philb** » Tue 25 Jun 2019, 21:15

possibly bionicpup64s '32bit_compatibilty_bionicpup64.sfs' may work with the next ubuntu LTS. after that i doubt it though.

rockedge · #32 Post by **rockedge** » Tue 25 Jun 2019, 23:36

Too many people rely on the package management system to do everything for them....and when it doesn't, they bitch & moan, rather than getting off their backsides and actually doing something about it.....

It's one thing you can do with Linux. There's a 'manual' solution to every problem, if you're determined enough.

I am messing around for a bit now with wiak's cool script to construct an OS using stuff from Void Linux. To get this far I have since scraped all kinds of libs and packages, including using the kernel from Puppy Linux, together from .deb, tar, rpm from distros like Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora to try out different configurations.

surprising what one can stir in and get a positive result.

info on the Firstrib project->
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=116212
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=11635

Mike Walsh · #33 Post by **Mike Walsh** » Wed 26 Jun 2019, 13:48

rockedge wrote:
Too many people rely on the package management system to do everything for them....and when it doesn't, they bitch & moan, rather than getting off their backsides and actually doing something about it.....

It's one thing you can do with Linux. There's a 'manual' solution to every problem, if you're determined enough.

I am messing around for a bit now with wiak's cool script to construct an OS using stuff from Void Linux. To get this far I have since scraped all kinds of libs and packages, including using the kernel from Puppy Linux, together from .deb, tar, rpm from distros like Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora to try out different configurations.

surprising what one can stir in and get a positive result.

info on the Firstrib project->
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=116212
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=11635

Which all goes to prove what I've said before.....and why you can mix'n'match all kinds of stuff from no end of different sources.

.Deb, .rpm, tar.gz, .txz.....these are simply packaging conventions, to work with different distros package managers. All we're interested in is the contents of the package.....not the package itself.

I've got no end of stuff running by obtaining packages from pkgs.org, extracting the contents, then using the relevant bits from inside. You still have to try & make sure you get the appropriate version.....but more often than not, it'll work.

You try doing this in Windoze....

Mike.

peebee · #34 Post by **peebee** » Wed 03 Jul 2019, 18:23

A glimmer of hope.... time will tell if sufficient 32-bit packages are provided to make a Pup....

https://ubuntu.com/blog/statement-on-32 ... -20-04-lts

ozsouth · #35 Post by **ozsouth** » Wed 03 Jul 2019, 22:35

From Peebee's Ubuntu link above - something to consider:

There is real risk to anybody who is running a body of software that gets little testing. The facts are that most 32-bit x86 packages are hardly used at all. That means fewer eyeballs, and more bugs. Software continues to grow in size at the high end, making it very difficult to even build new applications in 32-bit environments. You’ve heard about Spectre and Meltdown – many of the mitigations for those attacks are unavailable to 32-bit systems.

darry19662018 · #36 Post by **darry19662018** » Wed 03 Jul 2019, 22:42

Why do they simply not make 32bit a community project surely somebody or a group of individuals to look after that as a community effort.

It is not rocket science. Again this is not about it is hard to maintain 32bit and 64bit - this decision comes out of Laziness on Canonical's part - pure and simple. The too hard basket.

darry19662018 · #37 Post by **darry19662018** » Thu 04 Jul 2019, 03:34

https://news.softpedia.com/news/linux-m ... 6601.shtml

Burn_IT · #38 Post by **Burn_IT** » Thu 04 Jul 2019, 12:34

You try doing this in Windoze.... Rolling Eyes

Never even thought about it as a problem!!!

ozsouth · #39 Post by **ozsouth** » Thu 04 Jul 2019, 23:57

@darry - I think it's just economics - they don't want to pay anyone to do 32bit. A community fork is a good idea, but I'm not savvy enough to contribute much.

darry19662018 · #40 Post by **darry19662018** » Fri 05 Jul 2019, 06:31

ozsouth wrote:@darry - I think it's just economics - they don't want to pay anyone to do 32bit. A community fork is a good idea, but I'm not savvy enough to contribute much.

Hi Ozsouth,

I am not up to the skill level required either to help out Ubuntu but I'm sure there must be people who can - hopefully.

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Ubuntu Dropping All 32-bit Support Going Forward