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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Installing Puppy Linux to USB, from the same USB
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 964
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2019, 06:59    Post subject:  

So much questions again.

mnt/home is like D: in windows, but almost noone uses it there Smile or my_documents, my_music, etc.
pupsave is inside the system and should only have what would be on C: (except my_...) in windows.
The analogy is not perfect, but it gives you an idea.
/mnt/home does not replace pupsave or vice versa.
Pupsave should not be big.
There is a good topic by shinobar about it: Keep your savefile slim and healthy

LICK will (probably) install on fat32 because it runs from windows.
(I haven't used LICK myself, so not sure.)
It is not a problem. Do it anyway.
Then you will have a Puppy next to windows on your HD.
Consider it a rescue Puppy. I always have one.
From that it will be easy to install working Puppys if you need to.
But perhaps it will be just right anyway.

On first shutdown of this Puppy you will be offered to make a pupsave.
Before that, use gParted in Puppy to create a ext2/3/4 partition for your pupsave on the free space you have on your HD.
You can have your pupsave on that partition as a folder then.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5656
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2019, 08:16    Post subject:  

@ Anders3:-

As Bigpup has explained:-

FAT32 is the standard format that all USB drives are sold with. FAT32 only allows a maximum file size of 4 GB.....it's a very old limitation that goes all the way back to DOS days, when Microsoft were first starting to develop the Windows operating system - think late 70s/early 80s.

It's been 'baked-in' to Windows code for so long now that it won't be getting changed anytime soon.....and since Windows is the most-used OS, that's the format manufacturers supply USB drives in, because by doing so they get 'Windows certification' (and that's the 'industry standard' that they all want).

With me so far?

------------------------------------------------------

The Puppy 'save-file' is a very special kind of file. It contains an entire, Linux-formatted file-system inside of it - Puppy needs this to run correctly - yet despite this, the FAT32 file-system sees it as one single file. Hence why the 4GB limitation applies. Okay?

-----------------------------------------------------

Now; all Linux distros, including Puppy, have the capability to natively read from/write to M$-standard file-systems.....primarily FAT32 and NTFS (which is the standard format required by Windows). This doesn't work the other way round, however; Windows cannot see Linux file-systems without help, usually 3rd-party applications that allow it to 'see' and 'understand' the Linux file-systems, and hence to read from/write to them. All right?

We're getting there....

---------------------------------------------------

What you can do - and many 'Puppians' do exactly this - is to create directories in the remaining space outside of the save-file. These directories can then be 'sym-linked' back to your 'home' (/root) directory, for easier access.

This also has the advantage of keeping your personal data safe, and separate from Puppy itself, in case anything goes wrong with it. (Which is unlikely, but it can happen).

For these directories which are external to Puppy itself, the file-system format is unimportant.....it's only data, as opposed to critical stuff like boot-loaders, etc. And remember, Puppy will have no problem with reading from/writing to them.

Hopefully, the above will clarify things a wee bit!


Mike. Wink

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3545
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2019, 09:42    Post subject:  

Hi Anders3:-

For once 'tother Mike was more verbose than me. Or maybe just as. Laughing So, I case you got lost: The factory format of USB-Keys is Fat32 and that limits a file size to 4 Gb. A SaveFile, being a File, will be limited to that maximum size if it is on a Fat32 partition.

That's not really a problem. Only once did I ever have to use a SaveFile greater than 4Gb*. Usually they are in the 1Gb range, sometimes much smaller, rarely 2Gb. As 'tother Mike suggested, you can keep SaveFiles small by (a) Using Applications packaged as SFSes or portable Apps; and (b) keeping your datafiles --the files you create with your applications-- outside of 'Puppy-Space'. That is when you create a file --such as when you click 'File-Save' in LibreOffice-writer-- don't put it in /root/my-documents. Instead, click File>Save>Other Locations>Computer>mnt>home>FOLDER_of_YOUR_CHOICE. Note the 'mnt': any location you reach thru 'mnt' is NOT in your SaveFile.

Or better yet: Open rox to /root. Open a second rox-window to /mnt/home. Left-Press, Hold /root/my-documents; then drag it to /mnt/home and select Move. Left-Press, Hold /mnt/home/my-documents, then drag it back to /root. Select Link(relative). This creates a symbolic link such as 'tother Mike mentions. The 'my-documents' folder will now be physically located on /mnt, but it's been symlinked to /root. Consequently, your applications will 'see' it as if it was in /root, and that will be the first place they offer to save data to or open data from.

-------
Alternate remedy to the 4Gb Fat32 problem, See this post http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1012755#1012755. But you can't follow those instructions if you boot into Puppy from the USB-Key you want to restructure. You'll have to boot into a different Puppy -- one on a CD/DVD, a different USB-Stick or a hard-drive. [Puppy automatically mounts the drive/partition it boots from; it can't be unmounted; and gparted can not work with mounted drives/partitions].

------
* I was trying to run Dragon Naturally Speaking under Wine and needed about 10 Gb. But after a lot of work, it still wouldn't run.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12993
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2019, 09:58    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh and mikeslr,
You had to tell him/her about sym-links Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Laughing
Need to crawl before you can walk! Laughing Laughing Laughing

Quote:
Also will using the mnt/home be about the same speed as using an expandable folder when the whole system is on an USB formated initially to ext 2/3/4?

Yes.

Quote:
Will Puppy Linux work better, be faster if I install it on a USB initially all in an ext format? Or is it the same as fat32. With the perspective that it seems that Linux is made to use the ext formats mainly?

Well, Linux is now made to use any of the main formats as far as read/write.
So you will not see a speed difference.

The difference in formats is really about what features they have.
Well, not that simple.
Ext 2, 3, or 4 is a Linux format with the file system setup the way Linux uses a file system.
A little less complicated for Puppy Linux to use.

Ext formats have better features than fat32.
Ext formats were developed so Linux did not have to use Windows formats. Windows controlled them.
Linux was and is about doing things differently, better, etc....

Really if you want to know the differences.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system

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Last edited by bigpup on Mon 19 Aug 2019, 20:21; edited 1 time in total
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 5656
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2019, 10:22    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Mike Walsh and mikeslr,
You had to tell him/her about sym-links Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Laughing
Need to crawl before you can walk! Laughing Laughing Laughing


Ah. Erm....ooops? (*sotto voce* - Bugger!) Embarassed

Damn. ('Scuse my French...) Y'know, I always knew there was a reason we let you deal with the 'newbies'.... Rolling Eyes Shocked Laughing Laughing

(*crawls away and hides under rock*) ...<> *grumble, grumble* </> Very Happy Very Happy


Mike. Wink

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Anders3

Joined: 25 Jul 2019
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri 23 Aug 2019, 13:29    Post subject:  

So now I tried the different filesystems for puppy linux.

It worked to put the ext 4 filesystem on the second USB (I have two one I boot from into puppy linux and another to install too).

Then it worked to install puppy onto the USB with the ext format.

Yesterday I tried the ext4 format and grub4dos then found the USB with the ext format and puppy linux and included it as an option when starting up it worked great to start and run puppy from the ext formated USB memory.

But today when attempting to install puppy with the ext format, the installation worked, but grub4dos cant't see it for some reason. So it wont boot at upstart.

The difference is that yesterday when installing the installation app found puppy itself on the USB that was also used to run and boot puppy. Today I got the option to choose between CD and file, so I choose the file and then found the puppy file (or similar) pressed it and pressed continue, which seemed to work.

But as mentioned grub4dos did not see the installed os on the ext 4 formated USB memory.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3545
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 23 Aug 2019, 19:00    Post subject:  

Sorry Anders3, I find it very difficult to visualize what you now have on your USB-Stick. And my mind works visually.

We may need other information. But let's start with this: Can you post grub4dos' menu.lst. Just open it in a text-editor and copy it into a post.

Did you create a 2nd partition on the USB-Key and then install slacko into it? If so, could you attach two screenshots: (1) The top level of that partition --just Left-Click that partition's desktop drive icon, take a screen shot and attach it. (2) the contents of the slacko folder: Left-Click the folder and then take a screenshot and post it.

But maybe do this first. It is possible that you've wiped out the grub4dos and/or menu.lst on the USB-Key you're having a problem with. Boot into Puppy on the USB-Stick which you used to install Puppy to the other. Then plug in the other --which I refer to later as the 2nd USB-Key. NOTE THE LABEL PUPPY GIVES TO THE 2ND USB-Key's Desktop drive icon. Run Menu>Setup>Grub4dos. In the Left-Panel, Select the 2nd USB-Key as the location for Grub4dos to install itself. In the Right-Panel, put an x in the box next to "Search only within this device". Then click OK.

Don't worry if you partitioned the 2nd USB-Key. Grub4dos can only write to the first partition of a drive. But it sees what operating systems are on any partition and creates menu.lstings for each OS it finds.
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