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Resizing a working partition
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Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 11 Oct 2019, 19:58    Post subject:  

Now I can completely agree with Qui.

Tahrpup, Slacko 5.7, even Xenialpup64 were good Puppies in their day. I still occasionally use* --and you may know I've published remasters of-- the first two. Until recently Xenialpup64 has been my primary OS which I remastered for personal use. But there's no reason to publish it.

The recent crop of Puppies are just as good, more up-to-date, more secure. Security concerns is why I haven't published my remastered Xenialpup64. The openssl Xenialpup64 --and any older 32-bit or 64-bit-- Puppy uses will very shortly reach End of Life. Upgrading it will require newer glibc libraries. An OS can only have one set of glibc libraries. We've maintained Web-browser security by building those glibc libraries into the browsers and configuring the browsers to use their own rather than the operating system's version. But at some point work-arounds just are more trouble than 'biting the bullet' and switching to a new Puppy.

Not even limited RAM justifies using an older Puppy. James Bond has posted about how to run dpup-stretch, and others, even with limited RAM. I don't recall that post employing the technique I've used to reduce RAM demands: Swap kernels to one of Rockedge's Real-Time Kernels. You'll find here, http://rockedge.org/kernels/ even a nopae kernel for those few 15 +/- year old or older computers unable to accept the 'forcepae' boot argument.

I started using Puppies woofed from Ubuntu and debian as soon as they began to appear. I 'feel more at home' with them than the Slackos and can't comment on the variety of applications available to newer Slacko-puppies. But, I don't know of anything the older 'Ubuntus' and 'debians' can do which the newer ones can't. Nor do they do it using significantly more RAM; [with the exception of some Media Creators whose newest versions require Qt libraries. But fortunately older versions can still be used].

Only Web-browsers are the real RAM-hogs. And that's the case regardless of which operating system uses them.

Since you're planning a major change, you might as well change to a Puppy which will provide you several years of secure usage.

* You may wonder why I still use 'them'; well, actually only my remaster of Slacko 5.7. So do I. Rolling Eyes I get attached to things. Shocked But remember I removed the Automatic-Save, and by now have no reason to ever execute a manual Save. Each new boot-up is as pristine as the first. So I can risk running an insecure operating system for non-essential tasks. And it's not the Puppy I use to even read my email.
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Mike Walsh

Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 6397
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Fri 11 Oct 2019, 21:14    Post subject:  

@ oui:-

oui wrote:
why are you using an old version? look at the titel of the internet page of the forum, look for the link Puppy HOME page (ok, tahr pup is on it at the last position, not for nothing - it is the last actual version made out Ubuntu bin's),

in new versions developers did spend a lot of hours or days to eliminate precedent difficulties in all main app's. and you are REFUSING to use the ameliorations and wine in the forum?

i don't understand it!

Oh, for the love of Pete....

Do us a favour, would you, oui? Climb down off that 'high horse' you're precariously perched on, there's a good lad.....and join the 'real' world.

This isn't a bunch of kindergarten tots you're 'preaching' to here, y'know? Our community is mainly composed of mature adults, who are perfectly capable of making up their own minds as to what they want to do. I'm quite certain Leslie has his reasons; I mean, I'm still pretty 'attached' to Tahrpup myself. After all, it was the very first Puppy that just worked on all my hardware, and is in large part responsible for my own Puppy 'journey' getting under way.

I'm afraid your 'logic' completely escapes me. Just because a newer version of Puppy exists, there is nothing on this earth that says to me, 'Oh, but you HAVE to use it! If you don't, you're saying that our developers are wasting their time...'

Huh?? Where do you get off by making statements like that, eh?

Some folks (like me, obviously! Rolling Eyes ), just happen to be daft buggers (by your logic) and actually enjoy still using older Puppies......just for the hell of it, y'know?

In my case, I use a broad selection of Puppies, ranging from Puppy 431, all the way up to and including Bionicpup 8.0. They all have their charms.....and all have distinct 'personalities', I tell you! For the last few weeks, I've been spending more time in Racy 5.5.1 than anywhere else. I probably only practise very 'basic' security - I certainly don't spend my time worrying about it, that's for sure - and in over 5 years of being 'all-Puppy' exclusively, I've never caught a single 'nasty'.

I'm more than willing to give the latest Puppy (whatever it happens to be at any given point in time) a look, and try it out....but I'm definitely not one of these folks who religiously switch to the very latest 'shiny toy' the instant it 'hits the shelves', and immediately throw the rest of my toys out of the pram.....

(I'm a 'naughty' Puppian.....who doesn't 'toe the line' just because he's told to. So sue me.....)

I'm in Slacko 560 at this very moment. One of my favourite Pups, everything just 'works' to my satisfaction, and does exactly what I want it to. I have never, ever understood this near-paranoia many folks seem to develop concerning computer 'security'; it's only a pile of plastic & electronic junk, when all's said & done. I'm not going to worry myself into an early grave over it, that's for sure.... Shocked Rolling Eyes

(I didn't buy my first CD player until 2001, at which time such things had been on the market for almost 20 years, and the prediction of them becoming obsolete was already being bandied about. I like to let tech 'prove' itself, before I invest in it..! Laughing )

We all have different agendas when it comes to our 'Puppy time'. I'm sure there's thousands of other Puppians just like me....

Call me a 'prat', if you want to. From your viewpoint, and by your 'logic', I probably am. Laughing Laughing

I couldn't care less. Very Happy

Mike. Wink


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Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3606
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Sat 12 Oct 2019, 16:17    Post subject:  

Normally, I do not let my voice messages translate by machine. But since I'm being operated on Monday, and I do not know what's coming after, and I'm in time trouble, I'm doing it exceptionally today because my English is bumpier. Below is the original text in German (because the machine translation is better than from French, my native language):

Your horse is not exactly low, but, what is it ... In everyday life, I use (very) old Puppy's constantly. In the last 12 months 6 with Slacko 5.33 (32 bits) and the last 6 with Quirky Wary64-6.99 (64 bits).


Because I'm a consequent minimalist, and I want to constantly convince myself that with extremely little (both have barely more than 100 MB in size), probably the 2 worlds smallest fully operational operating systems ever, with such a wide selection of applications for all really Wary has an old browser but also a hidden built-in video support with Flash or similar, which you are looking for the same! For some purposes more than full, better though old, than some new ones. Barry knew, as always, exactly what he does and gives us (thanks Barry)! Slacko64-5.33 never came, otherwise I probably would have preferred this as the innovative version Wary64-6.99, start version of a new series, which, unfortunately , not so narrow!


I test (almost) all new (main) versions of Puppy! So one to two weeks long. Because it's important to realize what the current best state of our movement is, and also what bugs have been fixed, not only by our Puppy developers but also by the developers of the main components our Puppy is built from ! Gparted, xorg, Mozilla, Abi and gnumeric, etc., these ingredients are always in the lead. And sometimes discover something new in the section "Multimedia" etc., where there is more fluctuation.

And that I recommend with a clear conscience newcomers! Why? Because they do not even find the old legacy of bugs at first!

If I know then, and I am aware of what the current Puppy can afford, I can then see if I can find the right minimalist version of it for me to endure old: If any errors occur then I know that is due to the age of Version - at that time there were still problems! At that time there were still concepts that have meanwhile evolved enormously and were capable of development, but they have not been yet. I do not have to cry about it at the Puppy forum because it was my decision to choose something older: The Puppy developers, the developers of the main and other applications had been working a lot and successfully, and then I am the one who put this on the line!

I'm not attacking the old Puppy's, I'm a user of it, just advocating getting to know and appreciate the Linux innovations, and using it as a benchmark before crying on the forum, especially when you start. No one would think today to start with Windows 3.1 or even IBM-Dos in today's Windows world!

Normalerweise lasse ich meine Wortmeldungen nicht maschinell übersetzen. Da ich aber am Montag operiert werde, und nicht weiss, was danach kommt, tue ich es ausnahmsweise heute, weil mein Englisch holperiger ist. Nachstehend der Originaltext in Deutsch (weil die maschinelle Übersetzung besser ist als aus Französisch, meine Muttersprache):

Ihr Pferd ist auch nicht gerade niedrig, aber, was soll es... Im Alltag benutze ich (sehr) alte Puppy's dauernd. In den letzten 12 monaten 6 davon mit Slacko 5.33 (32 bits) und die letzten 6 mit Quirky Wary64-6.99 (64 bits).


Weil ich ein engagierter Minimalist bin, und mich laufend überzeugen will, dass man mit extrem wenig (beide haben kaum mehr als 100 MB size), wahrscheinlich die 2 weltweit kleinsten voll einsatzfähigen Betriebssysteme überhaupt, die mit so einem breiten Auswahl von Applikationen für alle wirklich alltäglichen Lebenslagen verbreitet werden (restrictions: Slacko kommt ohne vollwertigen Browser! Wary hat zwar einen alten Browser aber auch eine versteckt eingebauten Videounterstützung mit Flash oder ähnlich, die ihr gleiches sucht! Für manche Zwecke mehr als vollwertig, besser obwohl alt, als manche neue... Barry wusste, wie immer, exakt, was er tut und uns schenkt (danke Barry)! Slacko64-5.33 kam nie, sonst hätte ich vermutlich auch dieses vorgezogen als die innovative Version Wary64-6.99, Startversion einer neuen Reihe, die, leider, nicht so schmal geblieben ist!


ich teste (fast) alle neuen (Haupt-)Versionen von Puppy! So ein bis zwei Wochen lang. Denn es ist wichtig, um mir klar zu werden, was der aktuelle beste Stand in unserer Bewegung ist, und auch welche Fehler eventuell beseitigt wurden, nicht nur von unseren Puppy-Entwicklern sondern auch von den Entwicklern von den Hauptbestandteilen aus welchen unser Puppy gebaut wird! Gparted, xorg, Mozilla, Abi und gnumeric usw., diese Bestandteile die unbeirrbar immer dabei sind. Und entdecke manchmal neues im Abteil "Multimedia" usw., wo es mehr Fluktuation gibt.

Und das empfehle ich mit gutem Gewissen Neulingen! Warum? Weil sie dabei den alten Nachlass an Programmierfehler (bugs) zuerst erst gar nicht antreffen!

Wen ich dann weiß, und mir bewußt bin, was das AKTUELLE Puppy leisten kann, kann ich dann gucken, ob ich die für mich passende minimalistische Version davon um alten Bestand finden kann: Wenn Fehler dann auftreten, weiß ich, das liegt am Alter der Version - es gab damals noch Probleme! Es gab damals noch Konzepte, die inzwischen riesig inzwischen weiterentwickelt wurden und entwicklungsfähig waren, aber es noch nicht gewesen sind. Ich brauche dann nicht auf dem Puppy-Forum darüber zu weinen, denn es war meine Entscheidung, mich für etwas älteres zu entscheiden: Die Puppy-Entwickler, die Entwickler der Haupt- und anderen Applikation hatten inzwischen viel und erfolgereich gearbeitet, und ich bin dann derjenige welcher, der das auf's Spiel gesetzt hat!

Ich greife die alten Puppy's nicht an, ich bin ein User davon, sondern plädiere nur darum, die Linux-Neuerungen kennen und schätzen zu lernen, und als Bewertungsmaßstab zu grunde zu legen, bevor man auf dem Forum weint, speziell wenn man anfängt. Keiner käme heute auf die Idee, mit Windows 3.1 oder gar IBM-Dos in der heutigen Windows-Welt anfangen zu wollen!
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