Can't start puppy linux from a full install, lacks grub

[vra]

Hi all, just joined to this mangific forum.

I've a problem here, I've installed xenial puppy 7.5 in a partition of my hard drive called sda4, in sda 3 I've windows 10 and I don't want to modify the mbr of windows so the alternative is to install grub in the same partition of the puppy installation

Then the live CD offers to install grub4Dos, when I select the partition of puppy (PBS) and after that I press the Ok button, then en "Grub4DosConfig - List of fetected operating systems it shows Frugal installed Puppy at the left side of the window and in the right side of the window it shows the windows operatind systems like follows:

1st line: Windows
2nd line: Windows (sda1)
3rd line: Windows (sda3)

I click the ok button and it shows a message saying "Confirmation: the boot loader (Grub4Dos) will be installed on: sda4"

i press "Ok" again and after several seconds it shows another message saying that it was an error, the log says this:

Code: Select all

/usr/sbin/grub4dosconfig PBS
version 1.9.2
Mon Nov 18 10:54:15 +08 2019
BINSTALLER=bootlace.com
298.1GiB
1036288
11878400
267737088
31918080
3.9GiB
4029376
sda|298kB_ATA_SAMSUNG_HM321HI
sda1|(ntfs)_1012MB_System
sda2|(ntfs)_11.3GB_Recovery
sda3|(ntfs)_255.3GB_OS
sda4|(ext2)_30.4GB_Linux
sdb|3kB_Generic_STORAGE_DEVICE
sdb1|(vfat)_3.8GB_MYLINUXLIVE
PCPARTS:
/dev/sda1|ntfs|1036288
/dev/sda2|ntfs|11878400
/dev/sda3|ntfs|267737088
/dev/sda4|ext2|31918080
 /dev/sdb1|vfat|4029376

LPART:/dev/sda4|ext2|31918080
MYPUPPY=sdb1/puppy_xenialpup_7.5.sfs
sdb1/puppy_xenialpup_7.5.sfs,initrd.gz|puppy_xenialpup_7.5

sda1/bootmgr|Windows
sda3/bootmgr|Windows
sda4/menu.lst|Puppy_xenialpup_7.5_(sdb1)


WIN:sda1/bootmgr|Windows
WIN:sda3/bootmgr|Windows
Writing... /mnt/sda4/menu.lst
sdb1/puppy_xenialpup_7.5.sfs,initrd.gz|puppy_xenialpup_7.5
:Windows:
:Windows (sda1):
:Windows (sda3):
Installing grldr ...
'/usr/lib/grub4dos/grldr' -> '/mnt/sda4/grldr'
/dev/sda4 561305600 625141759 63836160 30.5G 83 Linux
Installing bootloader on /dev/sda4(PBS)...

Error: More than one files specified.

BOOTLACE writes GRLDR BOOT RECORD to MBR or to the boot area of a file system.
Usage:  bootlace.com  [OPTIONS]  DEVICE_OR_FILE
Options: --read-only, --floppy[=N], --boot-prevmbr-first, --boot-prevmbr-last,
--no-backup-mbr, --force-backup-mbr, --mbr-enable-floppy, --mbr-disable-floppy,
--mbr-enable-osbr, --mbr-disable-osbr, --duce, --time-out=T, --hot-key=K, 
--preferred-drive=D, --preferred-partition=P, --sectors-per-track=S, --heads=H,
--start-sector=B, --total-sectors=C, --install-partition=I, --lba, --chs,
--fat12, --fat16, --fat32, --vfat, --ntfs, --ext2, --serial-number=SN,
--restore-mbr, --mbr-no-bpb, --chs-no-tune
DEVICE_OR_FILE: Filename of the device or image. For DOS, a BIOS drive number
(in hex 0xHH or decimal DDD format)can be used to access the drive.
Failed to install bootlace.com.
/dev/sda Bootalbe: yes, 

the menu for selecting the OS is created on windows with EasyBDC and one of the options is to init on the puppy's partition but puppy won't starts, looking at the /boot folder of the puppy's installation the subfolder /grub doesn't appears neither the menu.lst, only appears config-4-4-95 and System.map-4.4.95.

Can you help solve this problem?

[bigpup]

I am going to guess you have a UEFI bios computer.
Grub4dos boot loader does not support them very well.


If you want Xenialpup 7.5 and Windows 10 both on this computer.

Use this program to do the install of Xenialpup 7.5
Lick
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61404
Lick is a program that runs in Windows.
It will install a Puppy version alongside Windows and provide boot options to boot Windows or the Puppy version.

Delete everything you have done and start over.
Use Lick to do the install of Xenialpup 7.5

Wonder why you are choosing an older 32bit version of Puppy?

Bionicpup32 8.0 (32bit) or Bionicpup64 8.0 (64bit) would be better to start with.

[dancytron]

In addition to what Bigpup said, unless you have a very specific reason, you should use a frugal install, not a "full install".

It is the subject of much discussion I won't go in to, but "full install" is a terrible misnomer. "Legacy install" would be much more accurate. A better name for "frugal install" would be "layered install" or even "normal install".

[vra]

I am going to guess you have a UEFI bios computer.
Grub4dos boot loader does not support them very well.


If you want Xenialpup 7.5 and Windows 10 both on this computer.

Use this program to do the install of Xenialpup 7.5
Lick
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61404
Lick is a program that runs in Windows.
It will install a Puppy version alongside Windows and provide boot options to boot Windows or the Puppy version.

Delete everything you have done and start over.
Use Lick to do the install of Xenialpup 7.5

Wonder why you are choosing an older 32bit version of Puppy?

Bionicpup32 8.0 (32bit) or Bionicpup64 8.0 (64bit) would be better to start with.

Hi @bigpup, thanks for the information but If I understood what LICK does then it install puppy as frugal install and I wanted to have puppy in a separated partition of its own, I also read that it can be done with LICK but mantaining initrd and other file in windows partition and as a frugal install and I'm wondering if I have the risk to damage the windows installation.

I've asked the last because I want to use linux but the computer is used by another person who doesn't know how to use linux.

Right now I don't know if the bios is UEFI.

[vra]

In addition to what Bigpup said, unless you have a very specific reason, you should use a frugal install, not a "full install".

It is the subject of much discussion I won't go in to, but "full install" is a terrible misnomer. "Legacy install" would be much more accurate. A better name for "frugal install" would be "layered install" or even "normal install".

Hi @danictron, Yes I have a reason, I want linux totally independent of windows as possible as it can be and by installing it frugally it depends of windows.

[p310don]

by installing it frugally it depends of windows.

not in the slightest.

Frugal is essentially a modular install, rather than a traditional extracted install.

Frugal does everything a "full" install does, plus more, and doesn't rely on windows.

[dancytron]

In addition to what Bigpup said, unless you have a very specific reason, you should use a frugal install, not a "full install".

It is the subject of much discussion I won't go in to, but "full install" is a terrible misnomer. "Legacy install" would be much more accurate. A better name for "frugal install" would be "layered install" or even "normal install".

Hi @danictron, Yes I have a reason, I want linux totally independent of windows as possible as it can be and by installing it frugally it depends of windows.

That's not correct. A frugal install is not dependent on windows in any way.

The only valid reason for a non-developer to use a full install is an ancient computer with less than 1 gig of ram.

The name is a misnomer. It really should be called a "legacy install" or something similar and a "frugal install" should be called a "layered install" or even a "normal install" or "modern install".

Do yourself a big favor and don't use a full install.

[bigpup]

Hi @bigpup, thanks for the information but If I understood what LICK does then it install puppy as frugal install and I wanted to have puppy in a separated partition of its own, I also read that it can be done with LICK but mantaining initrd and other file in windows partition and as a frugal install and I'm wondering if I have the risk to damage the windows installation.

Installing Puppy as a frugal install, any place on the hard drive, is just installing files and a folder.
Just like any other files or folders.

The only change Lick is going to do is put a menu entry in the boot loader menu.

I should have told you about a Windows issue, putting Puppy on a ext4 formatted partition.
Lick is a program coded for running in Windows.
Windows does not support ext formats, so Lick is not going to see a ext4 formatted partition.

If you want Puppy on a completely separate partition.
Format the partition ntfs format.

Lick should offer that ntfs partition as a location to install Puppy.

Puppy, as a frugal install, on a ntfs format, will work with no problems.
Puppy is designed to work on Windows formats, if Puppy is a frugal install.

Note:
Frugal is just the name used.
It is still the complete Puppy OS installed.
Frugal is about how frugally it uses space.

Frugal installs:

Can be put on any partition any format, any type storage device.

They load more of Puppy into RAM.

Easier to backup, because all changes, settings are in the save. The core Puppy files never change. Only what is in the save changes. All you have to do is copy the save to have a backup.
If Puppy really gets messed up. Just delete the save and replace it with the backup save.

You can easily load or unload SFS program packages.
This lets you use a program without actually installing it to Puppy. You will have to use this option to fully understand it.

All of Puppy is placed in a directory (folder).
You can have many Puppies on one partition.
All completely separate from the other.
All in different directories (Linux term for folder).

[vra]

In addition to what Bigpup said, unless you have a very specific reason, you should use a frugal install, not a "full install".

It is the subject of much discussion I won't go in to, but "full install" is a terrible misnomer. "Legacy install" would be much more accurate. A better name for "frugal install" would be "layered install" or even "normal install".

Hi @danictron, Yes I have a reason, I want linux totally independent of windows as possible as it can be and by installing it frugally it depends of windows.

That's not correct. A frugal install is not dependent on windows in any way.

The only valid reason for a non-developer to use a full install is an ancient computer with less than 1 gig of ram.

The name is a misnomer. It really should be called a "legacy install" or something similar and a "frugal install" should be called a "layered install" or even a "normal install" or "modern install".

Do yourself a big favor and don't use a full install.

May be I'm wrong but if I remember well I readed that in a frugal install the initrd and other file whose I don't remember the name remains in the windows partition but no matter, I trust you and I will do that type of installation.

[vra]

Hi @bigpup, thanks for the information but If I understood what LICK does then it install puppy as frugal install and I wanted to have puppy in a separated partition of its own, I also read that it can be done with LICK but mantaining initrd and other file in windows partition and as a frugal install and I'm wondering if I have the risk to damage the windows installation.

Installing Puppy as a frugal install, any place on the hard drive, is just installing files and a folder.
Just like any other files or folders.

The only change Lick is going to do is put a menu entry in the boot loader menu.

I should have told you about a Windows issue, putting Puppy on a ext4 formatted partition.
Lick is a program coded for running in Windows.
Windows does not support ext formats, so Lick is not going to see a ext4 formatted partition.

If you want Puppy on a completely separate partition.
Format the partition ntfs format.

Lick should offer that ntfs partition as a location to install Puppy.

Puppy, as a frugal install, on a ntfs format, will work with no problems.
Puppy is designed to work on Windows formats, if Puppy is a frugal install.

Note:
Frugal is just the name used.
It is still the complete Puppy OS installed.
Frugal is about how frugally it uses space.

Frugal installs:

Can be put on any partition any format, any type storage device.

They load more of Puppy into RAM.

Easier to backup, because all changes, settings are in the save. The core Puppy files never change. Only what is in the save changes. All you have to do is copy the save to have a backup.
If Puppy really gets messed up. Just delete the save and replace it with the backup save.

You can easily load or unload SFS program packages.
This lets you use a program without actually installing it to Puppy. You will have to use this option to fully understand it.

All of Puppy is placed in a directory (folder).
You can have many Puppies on one partition.
All completely separate from the other.
All in different directories (Linux term for folder).

About why I'm installing an older version of puppy: is the one that I have right now and beleive it or not, I'm having problems with the internet, the other problem is that I'm installing it in a netbook with 2GB DDR2 RAM and a processor of 1.6 GHz.

About the use of LICK, I readed in the following link:

https://github.com/noryb009/lick/issues/2

that the creator has a compromise of mantain initrd.gz and vmlinux in C: drive, thats why I taught that the linux installation remains dependant on windows.

The last assumptions is that LICK modfies the MBR to see the linux partition and I'm using EasyBCD for that, so, do I need to uninstall EasyBCD from windows to avoid possible problems with LICK and the windows installation?.[/url]

[vra]

A last question, can I do a dist upgrade from the puppy installation that I have to update to the last oneor do I install the new one from zero?

[dancytron]

A last question, can I do a dist upgrade from the puppy installation that I have to update to the last oneor do I install the new one from zero?

Some of the later pups support an upgrade similar to "apt-get update" to update individual packages and bug fixes, but to upgrade to the next version you need to install a new one from the beginning.

It is a function in the menu of the "quickpet" application on bionic and xenial if I recall correctly.

[bigpup]

The last assumptions is that LICK modfies the MBR to see the linux partition and I'm using EasyBCD for that, so, do I need to uninstall EasyBCD from windows to avoid possible problems with LICK and the windows installation?.

Maybe you need to ask this on the Lick topic, I posted earlier.
The Lick developer, surely can give a better answer than me.

As I understand.
All Lick does is adds an entry to the boot menu of the normal Windows boot loader.
Does nothing to the MBR.

Again, Lick is not going to see a Linux formatted partition!

I really have no knowledge of what EasyBCD is or is not going to do.
See what it's documentation says about booting Linux OS's.

Getting a Puppy version installed is not a issue.
Getting a working boot loader, to boot it, is the big issue.
I suggested Lick installer, because it is designed to install Puppy alongside Windows and work with what Windows uses to boot.

[vra]

Thanks to all for the help, finally I could install puppy in frugal mode but I had to use Legacy Grub Config 2013 to start puppy and change the content of menu.lst as said by the instructive.