mkkde: create your custom KDE 3.5.5

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MU
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#61 Post by MU »

what do you get?
At first look, it seems ok.
Are the sfs and the dotpup created?

Mark

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willhunt
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#62 Post by willhunt »

it creates a dotpup and a 237meg sfs after I mount the sfs and run the dotpup

when i reboot and run xwin startkde it informs me no
kstartup config file found check installation :( and refuses
to start and when in icewm kicker refuses to run

:oops: :shock: :lol: problem exists between keyboard and chair! I ran the .wh. remover script and all my probs went
away!

smartboyathome
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#63 Post by smartboyathome »

I am using Puppy right now off of my USB Flash Drive, and was wondering what I change when trying to install this. Thanks to anyone who helps! :)

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Eyes-Only
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#64 Post by Eyes-Only »

Hi Mark, Guten Tag! ;)

I've got a question for you after reading through a great deal of this thread: I have your GSlapt.pup installed and it's been working really great for me in getting a lot of software for my HDD install (not frugal---full HDD) of Puppy 2.17 onto a 10gig partition. I also have WhoDo's EZpup2.17RC2, so I'm using IceWM by default for a window manager.

I've added extra repos to GSlapt so that I span Slacky from 10.2 up to 12, using a list brought over from another Slacky-based install. It's worked great.

Now I'm curious and here's the question: I've done many successful installs of KDE upon non-KDE distros, like Wolvix and VectorLinux Gold (plus others), and I'm wondering if it would be possible to do such a KDE install upon such a minimal install as Puppy 2.17 straight from GSlapt? Or do you think this wouldn't work like it does in these other distros? Only Vector has the "one file grabs all" system in their GSlapt---all the other installs I've had to select each and every package and yes... despite my connection I still go make coffee. :lol: So I do realise there's "a lot to it".

Even you must start from "somewhere", jah? Do you compile your entire KDE desktop or just download from Slacky repo Mark?

I'm very excited to read your thoughts upon this idea! :)

Mazzel! mfg!

Eyes-Only
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MU
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#65 Post by MU »

Bonsoir :)

I simply downloaded the KDE-packages from Slackware with a browser.
Then my build-script extracts them, and runs the included "install" script (it copies it one folder up first).

This script usually just creates some symbolic links.

Then my script builds the .sfs from these extracted and "modified" folders.

That's it basically, however then some detail-work is added.
First, I ran some applications like konqueror from a consolewindow.
This showed me some missing dependencies, so I also downloaded and added those.
Then I modified "startkde".
I don't exactly remember what I changed, I think I modified things like some XDG environment variables.
These are for menu-generation, but I think also for other settings.
Without these changes, KDE got confused, and for example konqueror would not remember its bookmarks on next startup.

My changes might not be needed, if you'd run KDE as full desktop (not using JWM or Icewm as windowmanager).
But for me it was important to be able to run KDE-applications from within Puppys standard desktop.

So as conclusion:
It definately is wort a try to play around a bit.
Just on a harddisk-installation it always is quite risky to "break" things, so I'd suggest to try it with a frugal installation or boot from CD.
Then you can restart from scratch, if too many weird things happen.

Best wishes mon ami, aussi to the calm, wide landscape where you live, and where things are less hectic than here (at least I image it like that) :)

Mark

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Eyes-Only
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#66 Post by Eyes-Only »

Danke Mark! Sehr gut danke! (In my terribly mangled German! You'd never know I once spoke as a native...)

You have imagined rightly about my little city of 17,000. Though people here tend to think that life goes at a hectic pace, I've lived in the BIG CITY and so know what "hectic pace" really means. Life here is very slow, days are long, crime is low, and the schools are still excellent. I'm very thankful that my grandchildren will be going to school here and receiving one of the best public educations in the entire nation. :)

So your dream of this being a peaceful, slower-paced place, and somewhat idyllic, are actually true. Hold onto that! Yet this is NO place for those who love entertainment, night-life, and culture. None to be found. And there are still places by me where one may travel for 150 to 200km and see nothing but forests and wildlife. Some friends who have visited from Germany have called my area, "The 4th World." And not in a good term. But they loved New York Big City night-life, see?

Still... we have our many problems---like any place in the world, true. Unemployment is the highest in the nation here. Taxes are the highest in the nation. And for yearly income we are the 50th (worst) in the nation. Half the state (or more) makes $10,000 below the USA poverty levels.

I think I had better stop. :oops: But in my area I've often had problems with the bears getting into my trashcans at night. LOL! :lol:

Thanks for your input here Mark! Yes... what I had intended on doing was in like Wolvix, VectorLinux, and the others in which I've installed KDE, was to install the entire desktop environment and use that in Puppy just as I had in those others. Only VL has the "one file installs all" method and all the rest had where you had to select the files yourself out of GSlapt/Synaptic. Even in VL I chose to select the files myself as I go for more than what the "one file method" gives you most often. ;)

Then I was going to use the KDM to tie in the JWM/IceWM sessions so that I could select which desktop I wanted. Some distros automagically did this for me, some didn't. Those that didn't it wasn't too difficult to figure out how to patch them in. Because of your teachings and my love of poking around I've learnt a little more than I let on to here. ;)

But you gave me a great idea! Where I have a HDD install I was thinking "too narrow" and in terms of just the HDD and trying it there. I never thought to set up a LiveCD environment first and using that for the test. Great! Thank you!

Now, I have 1gig of swap which is persistently loaded and 526megs of RAM. A 1.5gig sized pup_save.2fs should be large enough for this test for all the unpacking of softwares and installing, yes? A full KDE desktop to install is HUGE so I don't wish to run out of room.

Sorry for taking up so much of your time with the unimportant parts of this post. I wanted to show you your dream is not far from real, however. :) Sorry also for hijacking your thread as this doesn't really deal with your mini-KDE either. :(

Merci mille fois mon tres bon ami!

Eyes-Only
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MU
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#67 Post by MU »

thanks for the interesting reply :)
You spoke german natively once?

Well I come from a small town in the north. 5000 inhabitants, very poor, too.
I lived in Hamburg only for 3 years then.
I love the large forrests there, and water, like lakes or rivers where you can swim in.
Here in the south where I live since february now, the country looks less wild, more cultivated. But on the other hand, we have a lot more sun here :-)



KDE:
mine is around 100 MB, but I do not use all applications.
But a pup_save of 1.5 GB will certainly be more than enough for a full KDE.
And keep in mind, that you only need it for the final installation.
For temporary files, like extracted slackware-archives, you also can use a mounted partition from your harddisk.

I have bought an external USB-harddisk, and so can easily can share large amounts of data among different computers.
I also use it, to transfer one pup_save.sfs from one computer to another sometimes.

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Eyes-Only
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#68 Post by Eyes-Only »

In re: to German, yes Mark---I once spoke that, along with several other European languages, as a "native speaker". Self-taught at that. :) Plus I was also an interpreter and language instructor for the deaf in American Sign Language, two types of French, plus Arabic, for one of the major hospital's here in my state, various organisations, courts, etc.

And yet I lost everything, even my computer knowledge (I did programming but I don't even remember the language it was), and had to begin again from nearly "zero" around 8 to 10 years ago. Maybe less time. Hmm... no, it was before 2000, that much I know. I only remembered my native Akadien and English but forgot all the rest.

But I didn't learn as many languages as my cousin. I won't tell you the number he knew fluently as nobody would believe it. Yet he was on retainer from the University of Philadelphia (? maybe Pennsylvania?) as a translator of ancient documents. :) He was a very big inspiration to me---and more ill than I.

Anyway, enough! I've taken too much of your thread already. Once you've read this and acknowledged it if some moderator (Flash or John?) wants to delete my posts then please feel free to as they have nothing to do with Mark's mini-KDE. But wait first for Mark to see, okie? After---make disappear please!? ;)

So... I have just returned Mark from trying all of this experiment, okie? I was greatly surprised---I ended up running into "dependency hell" over the KDE install with the LiveCD. After spending an hour bringing over lib-files from my PCLOS-2007 and Debian-Sid and STILL getting errors in trying to start Konqueror (indeed! I couldn't even get KDM nor the desktop running), I called an end to the experiment and deleted the files, pup_save.2fs, etc. I guess Puppy is just too minimal an install perhaps for this?

It's okie though. It was just something I wanted to try, see? Good thing you showed me to think broader and not so narrow. I'd forgotten about trying the LiveCD first. LOL!

Thanks for your help in my experiment Mark! Danke shoen mein "buddy"! ;)

Mazzel! mfg!

Eyes-Only
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Proud user of LXpup and 3-Headed Dog. 8)
*~*~*~*~*~*

basd
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mkkde - missing libfam.so.0

#69 Post by basd »

Hi everyone,

I've tried to run the script, which works, but I am having to work my way through the missing dependencies.

Well, Kicker is asking for libfam.so.0. But I can't find any package from Slackware (current/12.0) that provides this library.

It doesn't make sense to me. If libfam.so.0 is necessary for a slackware KDE install, then why isn't the package included/available anywhere?

I have found an uncompiled version, but it seems to me that won't do much good ...

This exceeds my operating knowledge of slackware and kde.

Thanks.
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MU
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#70 Post by MU »


basd
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libfam / kde

#71 Post by basd »

Thank you.

I see there are a number of library pups and I installed Mark's puppy software installer.

I'll give KDE another try. I was using Slackware 12 sources, but some things I read suggested that maybe the need for libfam was misleading and so I thought perhaps I was running into incompatibility problems.

So...I tried the link to slackware 11 that was in this thread. Unfortunately, when I try and compile those, the process hangs up at "moving files", the processor goes into overload and then it is time for a re-boot.

Whereas, the Slackware 12 KDE files went exactly according to Mark's instructions, but I was worried that I would run into large numbers of missing dependencies. (And, as it only tells you one at a time, this could become quite time consuming.)

But, when I get some time, I will try again. Right now my processor is busy compiling the "boost" libraries, as I am attempting to install PDFedit.

Thx.
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basd
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kde 3.5.7

#72 Post by basd »

After hours and hours and hours ... and hours (well, you know) of making every conceivable mistake, I finally got the script to create a working kde for me.

This is a long post in the hope that I can save someone the hours of aggravation. At least I can tell you a lot of what "not" to do, and list the packages I used as my sources.

Well, my present version is not entirely "working," but more like "proof of concept." I DO NOT have the actual kde desktop running -- there are some components missing, so it hangs up when trying to load.

I do have Kicker and Konqueror file manager working, which is something I was specifically seeking. I don't actually like the KDE desktop itself too much and prefer the speed of the JWM one. But, I guess I am one of two people on the planet who thinks Konqueror is the best filemanager around. (Even KDE is replacing it in 4.0 with Dolphin and relegating Konqueror to the shadows. So, of course, the other person who actually likes Konqueror would have to be the genius (IMHO) who designed it.)

The khtml component is not working, so Konqueror will not work as a web browser in my present install.

I imagine I can solve this by adding more packages, although I thought the "base" packages would work for this.

Warning ... once you tell Puppy to use kde by leaving the X-system to a prompt and typing "xwin startkde" forever after it will try to run kde. Which is a bad thing, if the kde desktop will not actually run. (After the crash and reboot, you may wish to type "xwin jwm" to get back to the default Puppy desktop.

The packages I used were from the slackware 12 repository located here:

http://www.slackware.com/packages/

My sfs file is 76 mb.

I used these packages:

acl-2.2.39_1-i486-2.tgz
arts-1.5.7-i486-1.tgz
k3b-1.0.2-486-1.tgz
kdelibs-3.5.7-i486-2.tgz
amarok-1.4.6-i486-1.tgz
attr-2.4.32_1-i486-2.tgz
kdebase-3.5.7-i486-2.tgz
libxcb-1.0-i486-2.tgz

I think the following are also necessary:
*Have the development sfs loaded.
*install the "qt-3.3.6 libraries for scribus, etc"
*install the libfam0.0.0 libraries (pup)

Now, being something of an expert on what NOT to do, here are some of my many mistakes:
*No matter how tempting, don't use your NTFS partition, even though it is mounting just fine and has lots of space. There are permissions problems (and also it compiles a lot slower on an NTFS drive).
*Do not re-run Mark's script with a defective version of the KDE sfs loaded. (Use the Boot configuration to unload it). The reason is that if you have some conflicting libraries in there, the new compilation may mistakenly use them.
*Don't take shortcuts. When unloading the KDE dotpup from a failed version, DO shutdown and reboot as it suggests.

On my PIII with 750 mb ram, it takes about 5 minutes to run the script start to finish. (I spent a lot of time waiting on the script when it was actually hung up because of permission issues on the NTFS partition). The clue of a hangup is that the icon in the start bar for the processor will show that the processor is working like crazy. (This does not happen in a normal run of the script.) Also, the value in the "ram remaining" block may disappear; and lastly, the desktop will become unresponsive and parts of it disappear when you click on stuff.

I had a lot of problems tracking down the dependencies. Part of this was due to my mistakes in setting up Puppy before starting the script process. So, I ended up compiling in GLIB-C and QT-3.3.8. This resulted in a running version -- but I also discovered Semonkey was broken.

Trying to fix that, I created a version that resulted in a pup_save file that causes kernel panic on boot. I managed to do that TWICE. (Fortunately, I use a "working" version of the save file, so rescuing myself wasn't too painful.)

Apparently what I was doing was mixing two versions of qt and glibc. In addition, I ran the script with out the development sfs loaded, but with the (defective) kde sfs loaded. As a result, I was getting very strange versions. For instance, I had qt and glibc compiled into the kde sfs, but kde was still claiming it couldn't find glibc. (And then Seamonkey was claiming it couldn't find it either.)

I don't yet know whether the development sfs is necessary to actually RUN the kde sfs (haven't tried removing it yet); and I'm also not certain about the qt-3.3.6. (I can't remember why I installed it or whether it was for this project. Initially, I was running the script on a Puppy version without the qt-3.3.6 installed -- a more stripped-down version, but after I crashed it I started using a version I had updated more.

Kicker will run, but so far, it's a bit weird about efforts to configure it. The first time I got it running, it came up behind the jwm startbar. The second time I got it running it came up on the left margin. Every time I have attempted to move it so far, it grays out the entire desktop (but continues to function.)

BTW, you will see "Amarok" in my list of packages because that is something I wish to get working. BUT IT DOESN'T WORK in this install. (I imagine I have to add in the kdemultimedia package and/or some other things). K3B doesn't work either, although as you can see, I installed that package.

I haven't yet determined whether I am simply missing kde packages, or whether there are further dependencies that I need to include. According to the KDE website, these packages should have been sufficient for a "basic" install.

Programs will launch from Konqueror and Kicker. It's not clear to me with OpenOffice whether it is opening in a KDE window frame or a Gnome window frame. (I originally installed OpenOffice direct from OpenOffice.org and it was opening without any frame at all. I modified the soffice script to add the gnome windows, following a hint I found somewhere on this forum.)
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basd
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kde 3.5.7

#73 Post by basd »

Rereading posts, I see that some of my problems could have been avoided if I had just read and/or understood Mark's posts better in the first place.

For instance, I see that his download that includes his script also includes qt-3.3.6. (I'm not certain why it seemed to be missing when in my earliest efforts, then. Also, I suppose I have it "twice" now, since I also have it loaded directly from one of the pup or pet downloads.) Mark also gave a list of the kde packages he used.

Shortly after my last post, I developed the following bizarre problem: The Pet Package Manager quit working. Clicking anywhere after the screen where you select the packages to load or remove appears would cause it to crash & so it was no longer possible to install or uninstall any programs.

I did a "roll back" to an earlier saved pup_save file and reloaded my kde sfs file.

I no longer have the problem with the package manager.

However, this is interesting -- as far as I know, I do not have the kde.pup file loaded that the script creates. I say, "as far as I know," because the pup file does not show as loaded in the pet package manager. But, I do see KDE entries in the JMW Menu system. So, I'm not certain what I actually saved as my "roll back" save file. (If this sounds confusing, you can't possibly be as confused reading this as I am after all the puppy save versions I have been through trying to make it work.)

One last puzzling thing. When I load kicker on a terminal screen, some of the prompts that displayed indicated that there were "plugins" that were incompatible with "qt-3.3.8" I'm not certain how this came about -- I did use that version earlier in my efforts, but as far as I know, the final compiling was done with qt-3.3.6.

If this sounds as though I have no idea what I am talking about, it is because ... um ... I have no idea what (nevermind).

BTW, in my earlier post, I said I wasn't sure whether it was necessary to run the devx217.sfs (development sfs, as I called it). I'm pretty certain it is not loaded and kicker and konqueror (filesystem) are working.

My next effort will be to see what happens when I add a few more kde packages to the install, but of course, then I have to recompile, which means lots of things will go wrong ...

Later, sports fans.
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basd
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kde 3.5.7 from Slackware appears to conflict with Puppy 2.17

#74 Post by basd »

Following up on my comments yesterday, I compiled a lot more of KDE into the sfs file & it is still letting me know that portions of KDE require qt-3.3.8.

KDE 3.5.7 notes indicate it will compile with any qt-3.3.3 or above, so I am guessing slackware 12 used qt-3.3.8.

As noted, when I compiled with qt-3.3.8, that required the current glibc, and that broke seamonkey. (Which I don't want to do, because I use the seamonkey html editor.)

Also, I had temporarily gotten the pet installer program to work again by using my kde.sfs file with a "roll-back" pup-save file. But, whatever I have done, it is not working again. So, I think there is some (additional) incompatibility between the slackware 12 version of kde 3.5.7 and puppy 2.17.1. (Just an FYI, not a complaint.)

Nevertheless, I'm pretty happy to have what I've got, because Konqueror filemanager is working also in ftp and fish mode, so I can make links to various locations (esp. my website) and keep them easily accessible from Konqueror in dual-pane mode. A simple command line smbmount command hooks up my Windows drives for viewing in Konqueror as well. (Makes me a very happy camper.)

Wallet works, too, so passwords save.
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basd
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kde 3.5.4

#75 Post by basd »

I am sorry to be having a dialog with myself here, but I am hopeful that sharing my attempts may assist someone else in the future. I am posting my sfs file at http://daltrey.org/linux/KDE355mini_217.sfs, should anyone wish to use it - it is 176 mb and includes Koffice and Firefox as well as most of the core KDE programs.

This file includes most of kde 3.5.4, which is the package in Slackware 11.0. According to the developer blog, apparently Puppy is based on, or at least more or less compatible with, Slackware 11.0. (Barry indicates Puppy is definitely not a slackware clone, though). As I noted in an earlier post, I could not get the kde packages from slackware 12.0 to work -- those are kde 3.5.7 and are compiled with qt 3.3.8 instead of 3.3.6.

Amarok, juK and K3b are not working. Amarok continues to ask for additional dependency libraries and I haven't tracked them all down yet. juK seems to want the same libraries. I can't seem to locate the K3b binary at all, don't know what the issue is there. Also, the KDE version of GIMP is not working.

However, a lot of other kde programs work, including the full install of KOffice.

I also included Firefox 2.0.0.6 in this package. Basically, I had installed it in Puppy directly, but I dragged the mozilla folder from "opt" to the "opt" being created in the squashfs file before compressing it. I'm not clear on Puppy's architecture, so I don't know what choices will maintain the highest level of execution speed while allowing the widest variety of software. I assume that until Puppy attempts to execute a program, it doesn't have much of a footprint. (Maybe I'm wrong, though). Anyway, so far, everything has executed very nicely, much faster than my Kubuntu install on the same computer.
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HairyWill
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Re: kde 3.5.4

#76 Post by HairyWill »

basd wrote:I am sorry to be having a dialog with myself here, but I am hopeful that sharing my attempts may assist someone else in the future.
No KDE for me thanks but it is interesting to read and a useful resource for others that might want to follow a similar path.

If you post some of your error messages maybe others may be able to offer you enlightenment.
Will
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Eyes-Only
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#77 Post by Eyes-Only »

Hi Basd!

No way!---you haven't been having a "one-way conversation with youself" even though it would appear that way my fellow Puppian Friend! ;) As you can see HairyWill and I have been following along with what you've been going through here. And you're correct in saying that by posting here others will also see what you've gone through and what they too will know ahead of time what to expect, look for, etc.

I think that's good of you too that you've posted the KDE file that you've made for others to use. Very nice indeed!---especially for others who are like me and wouldn't have the foggiest idea of what to do to place KDE onto their Puppy installs, etc. (Myself, I have a Puppy HDD install yet at the moment I'm pleased with the IceWM in that. In the future? Who knows? ;) )

I do agree with HairyWill though about posting some of your errors here so that perhaps others with more experience might be able to assist you in troubleshooting. That would count me out---I can't usually troubleshoot myself out of a fishbowl. LOL!

One route that I've taken, however? I've always enjoyed playing around with Grafpup myself and since Nathan came out with the 2.0 version he's recompiled a delightful KDE 3.5.6 desktop for his fork of Puppy that's installable. And talk about a KDE desktop that consumes VERY little RAM plus flies like lightening---whoa! It likewise takes up very little room: If you make a Graf_save200.sfs file of 1.25gigs and install solely the KDE desktop it'll still leave you with approximately 700megs of a save file. I don't feel that being too bad considering the save file can always be expanded, plus you can always save files outside that system and onto the hard drive (which is what I do with email, browser themes, browser caches, downloaded files, etc.).

Perhaps this would be something for you to look at as well? I've often dreamt of a way to install Grafpup's KDE onto my HDD install of Puppy but you need the "Gpkgtool" from Grafpup to do it---to handle the dependency issues---and I don't know where all its parts are kept. "Someday" when I have enough time maybe I'll find a way to port it over for my use. ;)

Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"
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Proud user of LXpup and 3-Headed Dog. 8)
*~*~*~*~*~*

disciple
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#78 Post by disciple »

basd - did you have any luck with pdfedit? Was that the latest version (0.3.2) you were trying?

basd
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PDFEdit

#79 Post by basd »

Thank you all for the supportive comments!

I am still considering a way to deal with PDFEdit. My first intention was to compile it directly in Puppy, but to do that I will have to create a full install and I don't have a spare partition to do that on right now (I have a frugal install).

In my work, PDFEdit is an essential tool. So, I will be staying on this project and I will report back. My next effort will be to see if I can find a Slackware install or if I could simply pull the files out of a .deb or .rpm and get it to run.

I'll post back if I accomplish something.

My current effort is directed toward implementing gnupg -- which shouldn't be too difficult. I run a system that automatically encrypts my files using gpg and stores them on the web -- so that I can access my work wherever I travel (anywhere with a reasonable internet connection, anyway). In this manner, Puppy will allow me to travel very lightly!

I'll take a look at GrafPup as recommended. I will note that I am running KDE from a frugal install and everything runs at the same speeds we expect from Puppy. I'm able to directly compare with a Kubuntu install on the same computer -- there is, quite frankly, no comparison.

And, except for a few bugs I have yet to work out, the Puppy install is more stable than the Kubuntu one (though I am using the Gutsy version, which is an alpha -- so some instability is to be expected.)

A further note -- (and I may be repeating myself, don't know what I have written here on this before) -- I see no difference between performance on my PIII with 750 mb and my Intel dual core 7100 with 2 gb. Both are WAY FASTER than Vista on the dual core machine. That's truly amazing and something I have always hoped to see from Linux.

I don't yet know Puppy limitations -- because it runs in RAM, it may be that there is a point at which running software or large data files overload its capabilities. In this regard, I HAVE crashed Puppy while attempting to compile larger programs, such as the C "Boost" that is necessary to compile PDFEdit.

But as far as my "everyday" activities -- at least those I have successfully running -- Puppy has proven to be the more desirable system to use because of its speed and reliability.
[size=75]Everything I know about Puppy [url]http://daltrey.org/tw/tiki-index.php?page=Puppy+Linux[/url][/size]

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Eyes-Only
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Joined: Thu 10 Aug 2006, 06:32
Location: La Confederation Abenaquaise

#80 Post by Eyes-Only »

Very nice and informative website Basd! I just returned from perusal of your pages there. I particularly liked your sense of humour about the "We Make Mistakes So You Don't Have To" Department. LOL! :lol: I like my pages served up with a little humour like that as it makes the person less "cut & dry" and more like a "real, living, breathing, person", someone with whom I can relate!

Excellent job! If Lobster comes by he ought to find a place for it on the Wiki as I think they have a "links" page there. And where this IS Mark's thread, I know he does have links on his main page pertaining to Puppy.

@Mark: You may want to place his website there on your front page. This man has a wealth of information regarding his experiments, experiences, and happenings with Puppy and your KDEmini.sfs, etc. :)

Again Basd, Excellent job! Bookmarked on my end.

Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"
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Proud user of LXpup and 3-Headed Dog. 8)
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