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The time now is Tue 29 Sep 2020, 01:11
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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
https://puppylinux.rockedge.org/ : Transitioning To
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2075
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 03:57    Post subject: Preventing address spoofing with DMARC, DKIM and SPF  

Why do people keep blaming gmail/google as if it is their fault that they are correctly protecting email deliveries against "spoofing"??? I'm pretty sure that is the reason murga forum emails do not get through to gmail - it is because gmail is correctly set up with DMARC, DKIM, and SPF. I also use GSuite business account and I know that is correctly set up with DMARC, DKIM and SPF because I administer the account and set it up correctly! The problem is Murga Forum presumably not providing the remote side authentication to pass these absolutely correct email protection measures against fake email addresses (spoofing)!!! Email was not designed as a secure system, but we all now rely on it and want it to be secure and that is what DMARK, DKIM and SPF is all about. So do these people who blame gmail for doing it correctly prefer their email to be insecure against spoof attackes simply so Murga Forum registration works?????!!! That is ridiculous. FIX THE FORUM or if no-one here to do that move to a forum with modern software that fixes that issue for you. And stop blaming gmail/google for actually doing the right thing!!!

https://www.csoonline.com/article/3402016/3-email-security-protocols-that-help-prevent-address-spoofing-how-to-use-them.html

https://support.google.com/mail/thread/6120394?hl=en

wiak

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Check Firmware: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5834
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 04:24    Post subject: Re: Preventing address spoofing with DMARC, DKIM and SPF  

wiak wrote:
Why do people keep blaming gmail/google as if it is their fault...
Because it is Google's fault. They have no right to intercept genuine communications from a forum like this when a user has requested a valid login.

Google's assumption of administrative and monitoring powers is done without authority from the email account owner.

Google prefers to ring fence the user's Internet experience just so that Google will benefit.

It is never justifiable to block a users email or route emails to junk folders unless the user has specifically requested it.
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3444
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 04:40    Post subject:  

I can confirm that I do receive notifications for new private messages (inbox) from the forum to my gmail account. Listed in gmail's spam folder. Get nothing when trying to register as new user though.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2075
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 04:42    Post subject: Re: Preventing address spoofing with DMARC, DKIM and SPF  

greengeek wrote:
wiak wrote:
Why do people keep blaming gmail/google as if it is their fault...
Because it is Google's fault. They have no right to intercept genuine communications from a forum like this when a user has requested a valid login.


Gmail is a free service. If you want to control spoof emails (e.g. send them to spam) you can get that from a paid service (such as GSuite). Email users on a free service shouldn't be encouraging insecure emails that could be spoofed - it is ridiculous that an official forum is sending insecure emails - it is the fault of the forum.

Don't use 'official' services that do not update their software to modern security requirements. That is why this forum needs fixed or moved to a modern forum.

wiak

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Check Firmware: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2075
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 04:45    Post subject:  

nic007 wrote:
I can confirm that I do receive notifications for new private messages (inbox) from the forum to my gmail account. Listed in gmail's spam folder. Get nothing when trying to register as new user though.


Sounds like the forum's registration emails are failing even more security checks at Google or I presume they would also be going to gmail spam like the private messages you describe. It is definitely the fault of Murga forum, and not gmail.

wiak

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Check Firmware: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
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jafadmin

Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 1258

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 05:01    Post subject:  

Can somebody please move this topic to the appropriate sub-forum? What a waste of space Rolling Eyes
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2075
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 05:14    Post subject: Spam test results for Murga Puppy Forum  

This post is very much in the correct subforum. Prospective Users/regulars need to understand that Murga Forum is not sending secure activation emails so many email services will drop them...

Below is the problem with Murga forum email registration.

Method:

You can "Test the Spammyness of your [Murga Forum Registration Activation] Emails"

by visiting test site:

https://www.mail-tester.com/

and using the test email provided there to attempt registration at Murga Puppy Forum.

Once you have 'registered', with username and that email, wait a little bit and then on the mail-tester.com page you started from check your results...

But you don't need to do this since I have already done it on everyone's behalf, and below is the result. As I suspected, SPF is not valid, the registration activation email is not signed with DKIM, and Murga domain has no DMARC set up... This is the fault of the forum!!! and stop moaning about free Gmail adopting secure policy - pay for GSuite or find some insecure email account if you don't care about spam!!!

Here are the results:

Quote:
Click here to view your message
From : john@murga.org
Bounce address : john@murga.org
Reply-To : john@murga.org
Text version
Source
-1
SpamAssassin thinks you can improve
The famous spam filter SpamAssassin. Score: -1.
A score below -5 is considered spam.
-0.972 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail)
Your SPF is not valid, you should fix it (see below in the server authentication area)
-4
You are not allowed to use one of your sender email addresses
We check if the server you are sending from is authenticated
-3
[SPF] murga.org does not allow your server 45.33.15.200 to use john@murga.org
-1
Your message is not signed with DKIM
You do not have a DMARC record
Your reverse DNS does not match with your sending domain.
Your domain name murga.org is assigned to a mail server.
Your hostname murga-linux.com is assigned to a server.


Overall Score was given as 5 out of 10 with the comment: Not bad. Some inboxes might still refuse you.

In this day and age, only 5 out of 10 is pretty bad though - just look at the relevant SPF, DKIM and DMARC results. My comment: NO CHANCE if you are using any kind of secure email service. Such emails would certainly not get to the inbox of my own GSuite business account (though I have set that up with a "catch-all" to allow such junk through to spam, where I can decide if it is too risky to open or not... Ridiculous to think a public free email service would do that though - they have a professional duty to protect their majoriy of non-techy users).

wiak

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Check Firmware: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3444
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 05:27    Post subject:  

Update. Was able to register with gmail account. Confirmation email goes to spam folder as mentioned earlier. New users should be made aware of this otherwise they will just give it up for a bad job.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2075
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 05:30    Post subject:  

I should mention, for rockedge's benefit however, that the same test gives an even lower score for registration activation email to https://weedoglinux.rockedge.org being 4.9 out of 10

However, the low score is for different reasons, hence registrations are much more likely to succeed. In particular, SPF is valid, DKIM is valid, and that is the MAIN thing required.

There was however no DMARC record (though that's possibly not going to cause failure) and the reason for the low score was mainly to do with:

Quote:
We didn't find a mail server (MX Record) behind your domain name sv27.byethost27.org; that will not cause a problem with registration.

[SPF] Your server 82.163.176.28 is authorized to use rockedg1@sv27.byethost27.org
Your DKIM signature is valid
You do not have a DMARC record
Your server 82.163.176.28 is successfully associated with sv27.byethost27.org
-3
We didn't find a mail server (MX Record) behind your domain name sv27.byethost27.org.
Your hostname sv27.byethost27.org is assigned to a server.


I haven't tried puppylinux.rockedge.org, though I'd imagine the same as this one.

wiak

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Tiny Linux Blog: https://www.tinylinux.info/
Check Firmware: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=1022797
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 6397
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 05:44    Post subject:  

@ Will:-

Your comment about using "any kind of secure mail service" is totally at odds with my own recommendation earlier on, then! Hotmail obviously can't be considered "secure" in the light of your research. Rolling Eyes

I can't really say as that surprises me, given the company that runs it... Laughing


Mike. Wink

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p310donGMAILtest

Joined: 09 Jul 2020
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 10:03    Post subject: Eating My Words  

I'm going to eat my own words....

I have tried many times in the past using about 6 different gmail accounts to register with the forum, and it has failed every time. No confirmation email to inbox, spam, drafts, outbox, matchbox nothing.

Something's changed. Either Flash's attempts have seen some fruition, or gmail has made some kind of change for whatever reason, or maybe Big John has done a few tweaks silently in the background, but I have an email, sitting in my spam folder, for a gmail account I made today for work (already using it for non work related things). And well, here I am.

Spam isn't as good as inbox, but it is a hell of a lot better than nothing at all.

This thread is titled transitioning. This forum right here is the home of Puppy Linux. Pretty much always has been. To move it on to another location is like moving on from Puppy.

I dug up a thread for 6 years ago asking what is the most important part of Puppy by starhawk. Fourth post on that thread, by me (the other me, not the new gmailed me):

Quote:
The answer to the OP's question, what is most important is probably the community. Without this forum, I wouldn't have my Puppy exactly how I want it. I don't know myself where to dig to change things. I know how to search on murga though to find where to dig to change things.

Without this forum, I don't think that Puppy would be what it is. Whether it may be better without it, and its inherent anarchic do-acracy, or worse is up for debate I guess.


http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=96230&search_id=340010556

Rockedge, I love that you have demonstrated that you are passionate enough about Puppy to offer a solution. That is do-acracy right there. Great work. But, murga is home. I know there have been a few hinting at a good riddance type feeling. I've seen your work here, on your forum and on the dreaded Facebook group. I know you're just trying to do your best to spread the puppy love, and you do a great job.

Flash. Is there any way you can edit the welcome to the forums screen? Not sure what your powers are (but if you can make an ipad a piece of crap, surely you can), can you put a note to advise people to check their spam? Or better yet, use something other than gmail?
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Dr.Know

Joined: 09 Jul 2020
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 11:44    Post subject:  

Just created this test account with Bionic64 in RAM mode using PM and a newly created Gmail account. Dr.Know0987@gmail

Yes, the email went into the spam folder. I moved it out. I clicked the activate link. Here I am. The whole process (including booting) took 3 minutes Laughing

Tempest, meet Teacup! Rolling Eyes

Dr Know
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Trobin

Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 982
Location: BC Canada

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 12:56    Post subject:  

Why not just allow the users the choice to, for whatever reason, either to migrate to a newer, more up to date, forum, and those that are satisfied here, remain, or hop back ans forth as they see fit. Yes, the community will be fragmented, but with at least two forums, and threads on various other forums, plus Facebook, etc., I suspect it is anyway.

BTW, I did some simple testing last night. It appears that edbrowse will work with Rockedge's forum.

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 13:51    Post subject:  

How to set Gmail Spam Filter:

Log in to your Gmail account.
Click the GEAR icon at the top right and then click SETTINGS.
Go to FILTERS AND BLOCKED ADDRESSES and click CREATE A NEW FILTER.
In the FROM section, type the email address of the sender that you want to keep out of your Spam Folder.
Click CREATE FILTER.

Here is the complete help page:
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126?hl=en&vid=1-635789122382665739-3305764358

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Last edited by bigpup on Thu 09 Jul 2020, 14:07; edited 1 time in total
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 3444
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul 2020, 14:00    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
How to set Gmail Spam Filter:

Log in to your Gmail account.
Click the GEAR icon at the top right and then click SETTINGS.
Go to FILTERS AND BLOCKED ADDRESSES and click CREATE A NEW FILTER.
In the FROM section, type the email address of the sender that you want to keep out of your Spam Folder.
Click CREATE FILTER.


No good for a newby registering for the first time.

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