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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Puppy Power
Puppy vs The Big Dogs
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profolio

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 66
Location: Montreal Qc

PostPosted: Thu 28 Dec 2006, 09:15    Post subject:  Puppy vs The Big Dogs
Subject description: Making a case for Puppy
 

I found this interesting viewpoint from Ran Prieur's blog.
http://ranprieur.com/misc/linux.html
Having tried many major league distros in the past, I totally agree with him that most of them are bloated eye candy that rival with XPired.
Long Live Puppy
Cheers
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GWJMateo

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu 28 Dec 2006, 11:16    Post subject:  

Funny, I just said the exact same thing to my wife a week or so ago.

I'm not old, but I recall times when a 2.2ghz 64bit CPU with 1gb ram and 250gb hard drives were either pipe dreams, or prohibitively expensive: now they are commonplace, and cheaper than the latest generation of consoles.

We don't see the benefit of the technology, because in an absurd level of feature creep, bad programming, and pursuit of eye candy has led to ever more complex and unwieldy operating systems.

That's why projects like Puppy, DSL, and Slax are so intriguing: how much can you do with a limited amount of resources? The answer: quite a bit actually. Actually, almost anything you could want to do with a PC, save play a commercial gaming title. And I'm sure someone will figure that out soon.

It's somewhat damning of Microsoft, Apple, and most of the major Linux distribution makers that these projects get so much done, using so little.
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amish

Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 616

PostPosted: Thu 28 Dec 2006, 11:33    Post subject:  

Quote:
The real question is, if you can do everything you need with a 100MB operating system, and if that system runs smoothly on old hardware, why do we need personal computers to keep getting more powerful? Well, because computer manufacturers want to keep making money -- or more precisely, because they have to keep up with a general societal pattern of runaway linear increase plunging toward Armageddon, what we innocently call "growth." If anybody stops running faster and faster, they'll get trampled. It's so crazy that hard-science techies have fallen into the religious belief that exponential increase will lead to some kind of magical transcendence, even though Gordon Moore himself has said, "It can't continue forever. The nature of exponentials is that you push them out and eventually disaster happens."


Wink

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profolio

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 66
Location: Montreal Qc

PostPosted: Thu 28 Dec 2006, 11:54    Post subject: Re Big Dogs
Subject description: More
 

Amen...
But the future is changing and might bring some colorful surprises. Diskless solid state computers.
http://linuxinsider.com/story/9wcTtXgEf3jPpY/Solid-State-PCs-Computings-Next-Horizon.xhtml
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JohnMc

Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Thu 28 Dec 2006, 16:48    Post subject: Fair  

Well first it sounds like another happy Puppy user.

His observations are well balanced. His few jabs of critism is fair as well. But it was a good read.
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amish

Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 616

PostPosted: Fri 29 Dec 2006, 10:49    Post subject:  

i didn't see a single jab of anything at puppy. a lot of us are enthusiasts... people that take special pleasure in doing something with or to something: in this case, puppy.

others are Users... and still others are reluctant users. the article was simply written from a standpoint catering to the latter two, mostly. i saw completely unbiased honesty. whether you can get that from an enthusiast is debatable (not here i hope) because if a little thing crops up a lot of us say "HEY! here's how to fix it!" whereas some people just say "aww, it doesn't work."

with windows, they don't care, because they think it's the only os Wink so it's not like there's any point. with linux, they know there are at least two.plus, in windows the enthusiast is often replaced by marketing, so the bias comes from there. instead of "no problem, you can fix it this way!" you get: "no problem, windows always works perfectly!"

whether it's honest or not, people tend to believe. the article was merely impartial, imo. but still flattering to puppy... i mean, i was excited to see a non puppy enthusiast say nice things Smile we're kind of like moms in a way... practically no matter what, we love puppy. when it goes out and finds other people, STRANGERS, and they like puppy too, that's a bigger test. not everyone becomes an enthusiast- so be it.
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GWJMateo

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri 29 Dec 2006, 11:19    Post subject:  

amish wrote:
i didn't see a single jab of anything at puppy. a lot of us are enthusiasts... people that take special pleasure in doing something with or to something: in this case, puppy.


Hang out on Distrowatch some time. The first person that comments to a DWW about Puppy? Slammed! Actually, that's true for just about every distro, but it seems particularly harsh towards Puppy.

Quote:
others are Users... and still others are reluctant users. the article was simply written from a standpoint catering to the latter two, mostly. i saw completely unbiased honesty. whether you can get that from an enthusiast is debatable (not here i hope) because if a little thing crops up a lot of us say "HEY! here's how to fix it!" whereas some people just say "aww, it doesn't work."


I like the whole tone in general, but when something is structured "I tried this and that, but OMFG PUPPY ROCKS", it can hardly be called unbiased.

Laughing

Quote:
with windows, they don't care, because they think it's the only os Wink so it's not like there's any point. with linux, they know there are at least two.plus, in windows the enthusiast is often replaced by marketing, so the bias comes from there. instead of "no problem, you can fix it this way!" you get: "no problem, windows always works perfectly!"


Except when it doesn't.

There was another article in The Economist about windows and how easy it was to administer...I find administering my XP install a straight up chore: daily AV, spyware, and cache sweeps, updates, etc. I can't see that Vista will be any better.

We've been having a discussion over on Gamers With Jobs (that's the GWJ) about Vista v. Linux...not much has really come of it since there are 2 distinct camps: linux zealots and Microsoft apologists. The apologists all say something like "Windows just works" or "Everyone uses Windows" or "Linux is a hippie OS."

Now, forums all over the world are filled with people that cannot get some game, piece of hardware, or software running. So the first statement is patently false. And if you check the quality of the responses, you often see one "Help me post" that is never answered. Sure that happens in Linux land as well, but not as often in my experience.

The "Everyone uses Windows" argument is equally spurious. I'm sure everyone has had their parents say "Would you jump off a bridge because all your friends are doing it?" The herd isn't smart, in other words.

As for the "Hippie OS"...well, I suppose that is guilty as charged, but how is peace love and understanding & source code a bad thing?

Sorry to riff off your post Amish. This all just came to mind as I was reading your post.
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amish

Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 616

PostPosted: Fri 29 Dec 2006, 12:58    Post subject:  

no, not at all, no worries...

and as far as what you said about windows... i totally agree. but it's the commericials that say windows actually works... sure it works for Me, because i spent About Ten Years (especially starting with 95, which i avoided as much as i could and hated) learning how to get around it's stupid quirks, bugs, and idiocy. i've all but caught up to puppy in... less than 6 months? i'm certainly getting there.

almost any os "works" if you hsve half a decade or more to swear at it and work aronud Smile even 9x Wink now xp... i can almost use it if i don't NEED the computer it's on. but secure it? no, relatively Impossible. i don't have time for it.

i was just saying, the commercials take the place of enthusiasts Smile as far as "no problem that can't be solved, nothing it can't do!" goes Wink puppy enthusiasm could easily be considered more genuine. i know it's not "the perfect os" but it is my favorite, overall.
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profolio

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 66
Location: Montreal Qc

PostPosted: Fri 29 Dec 2006, 17:42    Post subject: Puppy vs The Big Dogs
Subject description: More
 

You see I posted this initially because of my frustration with bigger distros
and also Apple.That's why I ended up with Puppy thanks to the help of a friend, a longtime user from Maine Wink and other users who were patient and kind enough to guide me through. You see I come from a long lineage of Macs and their OSs. I've seen Apple turn away from it's base of loyal users to pursue more commercial interests and become all the things we Mac users hated about Microsoft from the get-go. I use the Macs mainly for work now that I've been introduced to Puppy and believe me it's a pleasure to come home to Puppy after a long day's work. The package for me is the issue. By package I mean the devoted developers (Barry and company) , the community spirit and the whole general feeling generated by Puppy enthousiasts from everywhere. The Big Dogs have it all wrong. Puppy's being built from the ground up, not the other way around. The Puppyist decide what they want not some marketing guru in Redmond or Cupertino. That's Puppy power and may it always be with us.
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Gn2


Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 936
Location: virtual - Veni vidi, nihil est adpulerit

PostPosted: Fri 29 Dec 2006, 18:24    Post subject:  

Articles like that - Esp coming from a user that had few if any pre-conceptions of Linux can only help boost Puppy image

Which is good in general for bringing more people to try Linux.
More users - more Mfg support (hey - there IS a market after all ?)

The only misleading statement SIZE (which is emphasized as so remarkable since that contained all)
What is the decompressed size -& why so many mainstream bloat accusations - just because some features are not wanted ?

Leave any out & everyone wails & declare it's a "must" (ignoring they can add themselves) -
No need to wait for time constrained volunteers to do what the "average user" (they think) - needs.

Space - If anybody is that space restricted, (not running in live or frugal) they may be in for a surprise.
As to suitability - The thing about any new item - how well it fits users own prefernces/needs -
can only be known by living with it long enough to become familiar.

Divorce rates should make that obvious - but flirtations are heady experiences - & WTH - who really knows unless they take chance ?
Recomendations can be just as risky as playing "match-maker"
We never learn, maybe because it is so nice to see a good match work out.
If that is Puppy ...... we all benefit.
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6266
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec 2006, 02:09    Post subject:  

Quote:
What is the decompressed size

For the record, Puppy 2.12 is about 206 MB, minus initrd.gz, vmlinuz, and zdrv_212.sfs.

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mbutts


Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 231
Location: sitn on an iceburg waiting for my next meal to swim by.

PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan 2007, 19:03    Post subject:  

I have to say i love the fact that puppy is simple and not bloated with stuff (eye candy) you dont need. I have customized 2.12 with desktop pics and have added firefox, opera, java, and hv3. looking foreward to downloading 2.13 and seeing how it works. so far ive used it on several panasonic toughbooks, old compaq presario, custom built desktop, and right now i fired it up on an ibm a21e i just got going today. even used puppy to diagnose a memory stick problem. about all i want to add right now is wine to my distro version ive made and maybe tor. i also put thunderbird on i guess too. ive customized mine for internet. have also been thinking of looking into something in the way of a kids version for the net with kid themes. only thing i have not worked with much is the cd dvd save. thumb drive works great for storage as does the hd partition. thinking of trying a hard drive install with system manager for multi os boot option. i might even change my name from mbutts to mutts........ or something like that if its still available. long live puppy! hope everyone had a great holiday.
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