If a couple of lines of text annoy people as the machine boots and they turn away, they obiviously can't see past their own noses and maybe they should just go elsewhere....So it don't look pretty when it boots.......Least you only have to boot once per session and not have to worry about the Blue Screen Of Death which the term isn't even acknowledged by MS on their help site....
How many times do you have to reboot linux to install and use a new driver..
NEVER
If you want the functionality of windows (I say this with my tongue firmly in cheek) and can't be bothered to learn something new...well you know where the door is.....I bet learning windows wasn't easy to begin with was it ??????
Look Puppy is different to most LINUX distributions and by mimicking MS windows would do nothing that others haven't tried before.....
Get over they differences and just think about how much quicker and stable Puppy is
First impressions from a Win-user point of view.
First and last Win vs Linux debate.
Don't get angry, man.bladehunter wrote:If a couple of lines of text annoy people as the machine boots and they turn away, they obiviously can't see past their own noses and maybe they should just go elsewhere....
I'm not searching for a free windows. (I don't need that since I have yet Windows) I want (I would like) a simple, easy, powerful OS.
I have not dedicated my life to defending Win nor I think to do that with Linux.
Computers are tools. Just tools to do what you need. Nothing a kind of way of live. The live is just in front of the screen, not inside.
So once and for all, forget this kind of Win vs Linux debate because I'm not WinMan.
Sorry for my roughness but I'm just trying to make something clear.
I have no problem to look inside any OS and say what is good or what is bad and finally take the OS I feel better. I think that makes me more free than people who just use free OS.
It's a kind of a cause, I know, I respect it, I take profit of it (as per Puppy), and in several ways I admire it.
Puppy is not (I feel that from my readings through the web page and wiki)about to be on the Linux boat or out. Puppy is Puppy and I would like to put a runing Puppy in a friend PC without to have to explain to him a word about Liunx, boots, configuration or tutorials. Just Puppy and run.
Finally for those thinking all may ideas are just drawn from Windows have a look on the thread dooppoop linked a few mesages up and read.
Going in a more productive focus, you have forget the questions:
What you need all that info in the screen for if it is supposed you must do nothing with it?
I realize on that and I can see too its potential.Get over they differences and just think about how much quicker and stable Puppy is
Because of that I'm here writing to search for info (or projects) where my goal fits.
A kind of EasyPuppy. The problem is, at the moment, I believe that the goal of Puppy is to be easy and then an EasyPuppy release has not sense. But anyway I will continue in the general Puppy boat, or in other-flavor Puppy. That is simple 'problem' by now (not to start a flame).
Sirexel
A little disclaimer.- I'm a spaniard, so english is not my mother tongue. I'm very experienced with mailing list and I know very well what I don't want to be. I respect 100% the interest of this Forum. I'm not trying to impose my true (I don't know the true). Just want to be helpful and kind.
If my words are too much hard is due to my lack of skill with english.
I have no problem to present my excuses whoever can feel outrage for my words.
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Guest
Not angry man...just not real good at being diplomatic...what you have to consider too is that Puppy has only been in development for 2 years or so where as alot of distros have years on Puppy.....And unlike many other Live Distros Barry more or less started from scratch....
But when you think about it Windows requires user input to get networks up and running and constant reboots for the slightest change.......well upto NT5 based windows.
An operator has knows his tool better will always be more effecient than one that does not.
For anything to try to be all things to all peoples will never be much to anyone.
Don't mind me I'm just like a bull in a china shop
But when you think about it Windows requires user input to get networks up and running and constant reboots for the slightest change.......well upto NT5 based windows.
An operator has knows his tool better will always be more effecient than one that does not.
For anything to try to be all things to all peoples will never be much to anyone.
Don't mind me I'm just like a bull in a china shop
From my own personal point of view, here's how I see it
Booting Windows:
Turn on Computer, turn on Kettle.
Splash screen appears and windows begins loading.
Make a coffee.
Come back, desktop loaded but hard drive still clattering away for a good while.
Drink coffee until computer has decided that it's ready for me.
Booting Puppy.
Turn on Computer, turn on Kettle.
Splash screen appears and Puppy begins loading.
Make a coffee.
Use the computer .
If the boot in windows develops a problem, the screen just sits there with it's pretty picture on it.......no clues at all really.
If the boot in Puppy develops a problem, I can read exactly where it gets up to before it hangs, then find out why and sort it out.
Either way though, I don't think that all this discussion on the boot up screen has any relevance to me as I'm always in the Out house making a coffee anyway
Booting Windows:
Turn on Computer, turn on Kettle.
Splash screen appears and windows begins loading.
Make a coffee.
Come back, desktop loaded but hard drive still clattering away for a good while.
Drink coffee until computer has decided that it's ready for me.
Booting Puppy.
Turn on Computer, turn on Kettle.
Splash screen appears and Puppy begins loading.
Make a coffee.
Use the computer .
If the boot in windows develops a problem, the screen just sits there with it's pretty picture on it.......no clues at all really.
If the boot in Puppy develops a problem, I can read exactly where it gets up to before it hangs, then find out why and sort it out.
Either way though, I don't think that all this discussion on the boot up screen has any relevance to me as I'm always in the Out house making a coffee anyway
uhu? I got lost.
When did this thread turned in a Windows V.S Linux thread?
I thought it was about Current Puppy towards a better Puppy.
Every person will have personal ideas of how to improve Puppy. Those ideas may certainly come from previous experiences, that's how knowledge advances.
So, let's listen to the ideas and let Barry decide which ones he likes for Puppy and what each unleasher likes for they personal flavour.
Can we move on?
When did this thread turned in a Windows V.S Linux thread?
I thought it was about Current Puppy towards a better Puppy.
Every person will have personal ideas of how to improve Puppy. Those ideas may certainly come from previous experiences, that's how knowledge advances.
So, let's listen to the ideas and let Barry decide which ones he likes for Puppy and what each unleasher likes for they personal flavour.
Can we move on?
Woow, rick you really have a fast kettle. Or maybe when booting puppy you settle for instant coffe?Splash screen appears and Puppy begins loading.
Make a coffee.
Use the computer .
Which, as far as I can tell, refers to his past experience, not to a comparison of Operating Systems.Flash wrote:Um, the subject line of the first post?
Imagine brand A of cars having ABS breaks, and a customer asking car B manufacturer: Why can't you have them too? and receiving a response we are not going to implement ABS breaks because that's a car B thing, and we want to differentiate ourselves from them.rarsa wrote:Every person will have personal ideas of how to improve Puppy. Those ideas may certainly come from previous experiences
I only read good suggestions. If it's a good suggestion, who cares where it came from.
So personal ideas may differ greatelly from what you and I prefer. That's just the nature of things.
What I like from linux is choice. Options only exist because people have preferences and they (we) have either implemented them or asked the developers to implement them.
Makes sense?
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Bancobusto
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Mon 13 Jun 2005, 20:52
- Location: Vancouver Island
Good points there... I to enjoy being able to make my desktop look and act and feel pretty much however I wish...
There's a fine line though between giving someone the choice to modify their desktop and dumbing them down. Currently, with Puppy, we boot into FVWM by default, because that's Barry's preference. At least we have the ability to change that without much hassle at all.
I agree that there are some great suggestions being made here... I guess it comes down to what direction Puppy is going to take, right? Is the only way to attract new users is to look and act and feel just like Windoes? No, I was attracted to Puppy without a trash can or anything else.
Again, everyones differrent , and everyones opinions are valid and interesting.
Just remember, that all these suggestions are quite easy to implement personally, and then one could remaster the CD and there you go.
Cheers
There's a fine line though between giving someone the choice to modify their desktop and dumbing them down. Currently, with Puppy, we boot into FVWM by default, because that's Barry's preference. At least we have the ability to change that without much hassle at all.
I agree that there are some great suggestions being made here... I guess it comes down to what direction Puppy is going to take, right? Is the only way to attract new users is to look and act and feel just like Windoes? No, I was attracted to Puppy without a trash can or anything else.
Again, everyones differrent , and everyones opinions are valid and interesting.
Just remember, that all these suggestions are quite easy to implement personally, and then one could remaster the CD and there you go.
Cheers
You are all right in what you are saying, Windows is not Puppy and with a little effort almost anyone can have their own custom version of Puppy.
For the people who want that out-of-the-box solution there is the main release of Puppy, the other versions created by Barry and others are there to be tested and used by anyone who cares to tinker with them.
All this input including this post does go towards improving and refining Puppy so lets keep the discussions rolling, remember any debate always raises points that some people might never have considered.
For the people who want that out-of-the-box solution there is the main release of Puppy, the other versions created by Barry and others are there to be tested and used by anyone who cares to tinker with them.
All this input including this post does go towards improving and refining Puppy so lets keep the discussions rolling, remember any debate always raises points that some people might never have considered.
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Bancobusto
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Mon 13 Jun 2005, 20:52
- Location: Vancouver Island
Hey, you know that cute Puppy that we get to admire for about 5 seconds if we boot off of the live CD? How hard would it be to load the boot messages on top of the picture? I think that would look really nice. That way we could still see the messages, yet have something pretty to look at in the meantime.
Boot messages don't bother me much with Puppy, as they only seem to last for about 10-14 seconds when I have it installed to hard drive. Not freakin' bad.
Boot messages don't bother me much with Puppy, as they only seem to last for about 10-14 seconds when I have it installed to hard drive. Not freakin' bad.
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Guest
Correct spelling
I think this was supposed to beAy Chiwawa - woof woof (or "yes" "done")
Ay Chihuahua......no?
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Guest
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terrorhertz
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon 20 Jun 2005, 01:56
I've had my share of debates over the years.
KDE vs Gnome
Windows vs Linux or any other.
this program vs that program
Many have trouble with the cross-over to linux from windows or other OS's. I had my own trouble too. I remember it at try to make things better but I'm not a x-over anymore.
I have my own stuff that I like others to try out and give me their opinion on. I espesually seek out non Linux people to see what they think. I value their opinion. since in order to win this war( or OS's) we will have to bring them over from another side. MS has whatever percentage of the PC market. 90% or more ...something like that. I think most will agree that most everyone that they know has a PC( and it also has MS on it). There are very few people left in this world without a PC. Since they all mostly have PC w/ an OS then it seems that getting them to cross-over is more benificial than trying to prove that what they are doing is wrong.
I loved Linux from the 1st time I read of it! Without ever haveing Linux I supported it and belived in it. Then when I got it I found that it wasn't as hard as everyone made it out to be. It still has a learning curve and thankfully it still has that learning curve. ( Linux is growing)
As long as Linux still grows then we will have that learning curve. and that is one of the greatest things about it. How long do you have to wait for MS to extend your learning curve each release?
Many of us have been in linux for a long time and one thing we have lost is being a newbie! When one comes along and offers advise then it should be taken as newbie advise. When they say that they are considering linux and crossing over from windows then we need to listen. this is how we can grow. If we don't listen then we don't grow.
As programmers we see only our environment. as an outsider coming in. he has what most all programmers on about any program don't have and that is an outside opinion. untainted by our our OS. I think it should be respected
KDE vs Gnome
Windows vs Linux or any other.
this program vs that program
Many have trouble with the cross-over to linux from windows or other OS's. I had my own trouble too. I remember it at try to make things better but I'm not a x-over anymore.
I have my own stuff that I like others to try out and give me their opinion on. I espesually seek out non Linux people to see what they think. I value their opinion. since in order to win this war( or OS's) we will have to bring them over from another side. MS has whatever percentage of the PC market. 90% or more ...something like that. I think most will agree that most everyone that they know has a PC( and it also has MS on it). There are very few people left in this world without a PC. Since they all mostly have PC w/ an OS then it seems that getting them to cross-over is more benificial than trying to prove that what they are doing is wrong.
I loved Linux from the 1st time I read of it! Without ever haveing Linux I supported it and belived in it. Then when I got it I found that it wasn't as hard as everyone made it out to be. It still has a learning curve and thankfully it still has that learning curve. ( Linux is growing)
As long as Linux still grows then we will have that learning curve. and that is one of the greatest things about it. How long do you have to wait for MS to extend your learning curve each release?
Many of us have been in linux for a long time and one thing we have lost is being a newbie! When one comes along and offers advise then it should be taken as newbie advise. When they say that they are considering linux and crossing over from windows then we need to listen. this is how we can grow. If we don't listen then we don't grow.
As programmers we see only our environment. as an outsider coming in. he has what most all programmers on about any program don't have and that is an outside opinion. untainted by our our OS. I think it should be respected
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Guest
How many windows user's that complain about linux being difficult to setup could do a fresh install of windows if they had to ?
Not many I think.
How many Windows users had to learn to use windows, like it doesn't come naturally.
If two people with no experience where each given a pre-configured pc each, one running windows and one running Linux the learning curve would be the same.
Now if those same two people had to install there respective OS to each machine and configure it, the windows user would spend more time rebooting.
I think alot of the bad press Linux gets about installation is that alot of the horror stoires come from people entrenched in windows and I suspect a large portion would have trouble installing windows anyways.
Not many I think.
How many Windows users had to learn to use windows, like it doesn't come naturally.
If two people with no experience where each given a pre-configured pc each, one running windows and one running Linux the learning curve would be the same.
Now if those same two people had to install there respective OS to each machine and configure it, the windows user would spend more time rebooting.
I think alot of the bad press Linux gets about installation is that alot of the horror stoires come from people entrenched in windows and I suspect a large portion would have trouble installing windows anyways.
I agree with everything but that.bladehunter wrote: If two people with no experience where each given a pre-configured pc each, one running windows and one running Linux the learning curve would be the same.
Windows was made so user-friendly over the years, that it's almost impossible not to be able to do a fresh install, even for inexperienced users. Linux is definitely thought out and done well, but most distros are generally aimed towards experienced users.
I've been on the computer for almost as long as I could walk, using Windows, and I know quite a lot when it comes to computers. However, I'm almost brain dead when it comes to using linux. It would definitely be a lot easier if Linux auto-detected new hardware and drivers.
But then again, Linux hasn't been up as long as Windows, and will most definitely grow better over the years.