I have used several Distros in the past, but recently encountered Teen Pup and Puppy Linux. I understand the ability to use it from a live disc or memory stick and it seems like this install process is easy.
But, after just a few minutes of using it, I was sold lock, stock and barrel.
My question poses, "Is there an easy install to a fixed Hard drive in the computer?" Everywhere I have looked, either was very Newbie non friendly, or very vague. Some would lead you almost there only to drop you off.
I want to either do a dual boot system, either with "Winders" XP and Puppy, or a Puppy only install. I would appreciate any help I might get on this matter.
I simply cannot believe a project of this caliber would not have a simple stand alone install.
Is there an easy way to install Puppy to Hard Drive?
Its pretty easy.
Boot puppy from cd.
If you want a dual boot with windows (mine dual boots with xp) first you need to partition your drive. (click on start menu/system/gparted)
My drive was 80gig ntfs. I resized this to 10gig. I created a 2gig ext2 partition for puppy and the rest i made fat32 (easily read by both os's).
If puppy is being installed alone, the whole drive could be made ext2 or ext3.
Then...
In go to start/setup, then 'puppy universal installer'
Choose ide hard drive, choose the drive you want to install to, then choose the ext2 partition you just created (eg hdb2). Follow the steps for a normal 'type2' install.
Then set up grub using the mbr (master boot record).
When its done reboot (remove the cd!) and choose linux on hdb2. You will need to set puppy up again as its a new install.
Hope this helps.
Boot puppy from cd.
If you want a dual boot with windows (mine dual boots with xp) first you need to partition your drive. (click on start menu/system/gparted)
My drive was 80gig ntfs. I resized this to 10gig. I created a 2gig ext2 partition for puppy and the rest i made fat32 (easily read by both os's).
If puppy is being installed alone, the whole drive could be made ext2 or ext3.
Then...
In go to start/setup, then 'puppy universal installer'
Choose ide hard drive, choose the drive you want to install to, then choose the ext2 partition you just created (eg hdb2). Follow the steps for a normal 'type2' install.
Then set up grub using the mbr (master boot record).
When its done reboot (remove the cd!) and choose linux on hdb2. You will need to set puppy up again as its a new install.
Hope this helps.
Download a better Computer :)
[url=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rDTLJYDHX3g]Puppy Linux Song[/url]
[url=http://www.letterbyletter.co.uk]www.letterbyletter.co.uk[/url]
[url=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rDTLJYDHX3g]Puppy Linux Song[/url]
[url=http://www.letterbyletter.co.uk]www.letterbyletter.co.uk[/url]
-
jonyo
Re: Is there an easy way to install Puppy to Hard Drive?
Big Brute,
Any special reason for doing an install or setting up a dual boot setup;
rather than running live cd?
Any special reason for doing an install or setting up a dual boot setup;
rather than running live cd?
-
Lobster
- Official Crustacean
- Posts: 15522
- Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 06:06
- Location: Paradox Realm
- Contact:
Re: Is there an easy way to install Puppy to Hard Drive?
That is an important question. It comes up a lot. When I first came to Puppy and decided to use it, I was always trying to install to HD.jonyo wrote: Any special reason for doing an install or setting up a dual boot setup; rather than running live cd?
It took me a LONG time to realise that Puppy is different. For most people there is no advantage to running from HD (boot up may be a little faster on slow CD readers)
There are considerable advantages to running from CD
1. A HD can be corrupted, A CD is pristine.
2. HD is for data (or for more security use multisession or USB)
3. Keep an OS on your hard disk. Being an incompetent fool I have found putting an OS in HD partitions too liable to interference by idiots (that means me). So I follow the 'one OS per HD' strategy. So now I have Puppy as my main CD based BIOS booting OS and XP (at the moment) or a Linux distro on my HD. I have a second USB hard drive as backup.
I recently tried the latest SAM Linux live CD (based on PClinux OS), this you would need to run from HD to get the best from it.
Puppy works very well from CD. I can boot up Grafpup (in Alpha) TeenPup, Pizzapup and the latest Development of Viz. It takes me 3-5 mins (usually closer to 3 mins) to boot and connect to the Web from CD. The fastest I have done a HD install (mind you that was some time back) is 15 minutes. Normally it takes me about 2 hours (maybe I am just too stupid) - I just can not be bothered.
There ARE reasons to use HD install, for example using a laptop. Heavy use of the CD/DVD player (so wishing it free after boot)
For most users install to HD?
Not required.
Welcome to Puppy.
I believe the install script needs an overhaul as it is quite poor in options and reliability.
I've tried to install HD multiple times, and I have failed 3 of those 4 attempts. Sometimes Puppy just refuses to copy itself to the HDD and doesn't tell you, other times files are missing, GRUB screws up, etc.
And there isn't the option for a frugal install... or is there? I can't be sure because the labling is so poor, it says Option 2 before Option 1? Why does this not make sense?
Why am I asking non-sensical questions in a pessimistic way? Because the glass is half empty. I want it full!
I've tried to install HD multiple times, and I have failed 3 of those 4 attempts. Sometimes Puppy just refuses to copy itself to the HDD and doesn't tell you, other times files are missing, GRUB screws up, etc.
And there isn't the option for a frugal install... or is there? I can't be sure because the labling is so poor, it says Option 2 before Option 1? Why does this not make sense?
Why am I asking non-sensical questions in a pessimistic way? Because the glass is half empty. I want it full!
-
jonyo
Re: Is there an easy way to install Puppy to Hard Drive?
What's the story here? Can't say I'm noticing any probs on 3 laps runnin live cd. Suppose on old laps with slow drives type thing is what you're gettin at?
Lobster wrote:There ARE reasons to use HD install, for example using a laptop.
-
bostonvaulter
- Posts: 269
- Joined: Wed 27 Sep 2006, 03:41
-
Lobster
- Official Crustacean
- Posts: 15522
- Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 06:06
- Location: Paradox Realm
- Contact:
Re: Is there an easy way to install Puppy to Hard Drive?
Some laptops have a restore function, that keeps the OS settings in memory. This works better from HD. There are other reasons but I do not use a laptop and forget what they are.What's the story here? Can't say I'm noticing any probs on 3 laps runnin live cd. Suppose on old laps with slow drives type thing is what you're gettin at?
-
Bruce B
Obviously there are various schools of thought on this.
I always do an option 2 install, rather than run from CD for various reasons:
It boots faster
It has less overhead
It uses less RAM
If I delete a major app like SeaMonkey to upgrade, the delete is for real.
I can leave my music discs in the drive between reboots
I can have more booting parameters or at least I don't have to type them in
Also, Puppy is my primary operating system and I'm glad to give it a partition.
------------
As far as problems installing, I don't have any, I think the reason why is knowing the personality of the install scripts and how to prepare. This takes time to learn, at first it was a bit frustrating for me.
I always do an option 2 install, rather than run from CD for various reasons:
It boots faster
It has less overhead
It uses less RAM
If I delete a major app like SeaMonkey to upgrade, the delete is for real.
I can leave my music discs in the drive between reboots
I can have more booting parameters or at least I don't have to type them in
Also, Puppy is my primary operating system and I'm glad to give it a partition.
------------
As far as problems installing, I don't have any, I think the reason why is knowing the personality of the install scripts and how to prepare. This takes time to learn, at first it was a bit frustrating for me.
-
jonyo
Big Brute,
You mention xp so I assume you have a 1/2 decent rig. I'd suggest running live cd 2.14 using a save file to hard drive; easily done with (or without) xp on the HD.
Being new to linux when I started out with pup..ended up messin up alot before I learned a thing or 2. Very easy to just start over again this way until gettin familiar with pup.
Started out with 2.12, then 3 & now 4 & still run all my ~ 6 rigs live cd save file to HD. All the rigs have mostly xp installed on the HDs.
I mostly run pup now & just a matter of putting In (or not) the disk on boot.
The way you're thinking is far more complicated & more risk in messing things up. Read about 1 fella who (made a wrong choice) messed up his BIOS when doing a pup install & rig wouldn't boot at all after that. I think he did sort it out but just an example that things can go wrong, much more so with a HD install & even more so with a dual boot setup. .
You mention xp so I assume you have a 1/2 decent rig. I'd suggest running live cd 2.14 using a save file to hard drive; easily done with (or without) xp on the HD.
Being new to linux when I started out with pup..ended up messin up alot before I learned a thing or 2. Very easy to just start over again this way until gettin familiar with pup.
Started out with 2.12, then 3 & now 4 & still run all my ~ 6 rigs live cd save file to HD. All the rigs have mostly xp installed on the HDs.
I mostly run pup now & just a matter of putting In (or not) the disk on boot.
The way you're thinking is far more complicated & more risk in messing things up. Read about 1 fella who (made a wrong choice) messed up his BIOS when doing a pup install & rig wouldn't boot at all after that. I think he did sort it out but just an example that things can go wrong, much more so with a HD install & even more so with a dual boot setup. .
HD install
I installed a removable hard drive bay in my desktop style PC.
This way I can clean install Puppy on it without messing up my other OS's.
I can also try out other OS's at any time just by putting in another hard drive.
This makes it easy to put Puppy on a hard drive for another PC that won't boot a CD or USB. This is great for those real low end machines.
I have been putting Puppy on flash drives for people that want to try it out.
I'm getting ready to load Puppy on a CF drive for a laptop ( replacing the hard drive) with an adapter. The batteries will last longer this way.
I hope this will give you other options.
This way I can clean install Puppy on it without messing up my other OS's.
I can also try out other OS's at any time just by putting in another hard drive.
This makes it easy to put Puppy on a hard drive for another PC that won't boot a CD or USB. This is great for those real low end machines.
I have been putting Puppy on flash drives for people that want to try it out.
I'm getting ready to load Puppy on a CF drive for a laptop ( replacing the hard drive) with an adapter. The batteries will last longer this way.
I hope this will give you other options.
If at first you don't succeed try try again!
Or MUs installer here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=16041
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=16041
There are lots of opinions on here..... To HD install or not to HD install.
I think the real issue here is that because puppy is so universal in its options and the way you can use it, it is down to the user how they install (or not) depending on their situation/preferences. Surely this is a good thing and we should celebrate the amount of flexibility puppy allows?
I personally prefer to install to hard drive, that is just my preference but I equally accept that a frugal install, USB install, multisession disk or just plain old boot from CD are equally valid for other users.
So....If someone wants some help to do a hard drive install perhaps we should accept that that is the choice they have made and give help if we can without questioning their choice?
As for the ease of a HD install, I have yet to come across a problem and have talked several people through installs over the phone, all of which have been successful.I am happy to do this, all anyone has to do is send me a pm to arrange it.
The Install wizard could be improved (hey, most things always have room for improvement) but in my opinion puppy is at least as easy to install as Mr Gates' operating systems and a damn sight quicker.
I think the real issue here is that because puppy is so universal in its options and the way you can use it, it is down to the user how they install (or not) depending on their situation/preferences. Surely this is a good thing and we should celebrate the amount of flexibility puppy allows?
I personally prefer to install to hard drive, that is just my preference but I equally accept that a frugal install, USB install, multisession disk or just plain old boot from CD are equally valid for other users.
So....If someone wants some help to do a hard drive install perhaps we should accept that that is the choice they have made and give help if we can without questioning their choice?
As for the ease of a HD install, I have yet to come across a problem and have talked several people through installs over the phone, all of which have been successful.I am happy to do this, all anyone has to do is send me a pm to arrange it.
The Install wizard could be improved (hey, most things always have room for improvement) but in my opinion puppy is at least as easy to install as Mr Gates' operating systems and a damn sight quicker.
You *can* do it manually. I wish I paid more attention to myself...
I once managed to install Puppy to HDD AND edit the autoexec and config.sys files to give me a boot option (Puppy, Win98, XP), all without partitioning the drive. This was on a single 20gb Fat32 drive. Sadly, I donated that PC to goodwill about 3 months ago
I wish for the life of me I could recall what I did. I *think* I just copied the big 3 files onto hard-drive, then created a batch file for the autoexec to call up.
In any case, take solace: it is possible. Perhaps do a search for the terms frugal install?
PS: Just found this online
http://www.freeveda.org/linux/puppy/PupWin98.htm
I once managed to install Puppy to HDD AND edit the autoexec and config.sys files to give me a boot option (Puppy, Win98, XP), all without partitioning the drive. This was on a single 20gb Fat32 drive. Sadly, I donated that PC to goodwill about 3 months ago
I wish for the life of me I could recall what I did. I *think* I just copied the big 3 files onto hard-drive, then created a batch file for the autoexec to call up.
In any case, take solace: it is possible. Perhaps do a search for the terms frugal install?
PS: Just found this online
http://www.freeveda.org/linux/puppy/PupWin98.htm
Info for Dual Boot
Big Brute,
I am also new to Puppy2.14 (and also Linux) as of 2 weeks ago. Been finding my way around the forums, and thought this might be helpful as a list of knowledge out there that I borrowed. In case you are interested, I tried a "Complete" HD install, but found that on my laptop it would make Xorg unrecoverable if I accidentally shut the lid when Puppy was running. This appears not to be a problem with a "Frugal" (Co-Exist) install, so I've decided on frugal installation in a separate partition. Boot times seem to be similar on my Dell 500m.
Anyway, I've put a list of necessary reading together with details of what I did:
1. Partition the HD drive with GParted on the Puppy2.14 LiveCD, ideally FAT32 Primary (hda1) for Windows, ext2 for LINUX (e.g. hda5) and a linux swap partition (e.g. hda6). Make both the Windows and Linux partitions bootable. I actually have an extra FAT32 and ext2 partition for files and programmes as well. Make sure they are all formatted appropriately (search for "mkfs" and "mkswap" in http://linux.about.com).
2. Install Windows as usual to primary partition. This bit takes the longest!
3. Do a frugal install to a linux (ext2) partition of your choice:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 11&t=15732
I had to edit this advice: Boot from LiveCD. Use the Puppy Universal Installer, select "Co-exist" for installation type. Select GRUBconfig from the System Menu, and do an auto-install with all the defaults selected (ignore the advice to install to MBR). You will have to tell it where to install - just give your Linux partition (e.g. /dev/hda5).
4. Set up a dual boot system with Windows (2000 or XP):
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=14873
This gives you an easy escape back to Windows if you are frightened by Puppy! The GRUB menu file needs to be edited for a Frugal Install as follows:
5. Boot from LiveCD. Ensure Linux partition is mounted (click USB drive icon, then select "Mount" next to hda5). This automatically opens Rox, click on /mnt/hda5/boot/grub/menu.lst (opens in the text editor), and adjust the 2 lines that start like this as follows:
kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEDIA=idehd ro vga=normal
initrd /initrd.gz
Then save it where it is.
6. Hopefully, this should now work. For some reason, my Puppy2.14 doesn't auto-detect my swap file, so I had to do edit /etc/rc.d/rc.local with a swapon statement:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 71&t=16371
The linux installation seems complicated, but actually is a lot quicker than installing Windows. You just have to do a bit of work, rather than watching the screen.
Issues left for me?
1. My Dell still hangs if I close the screen.
2. The screen blanks, but the backlight stays on when left unattended.
I think these are all Dell 500m specific, but I'm still searching the forums for answers! So in answer to your question - No. But it's not that hard.
I am also new to Puppy2.14 (and also Linux) as of 2 weeks ago. Been finding my way around the forums, and thought this might be helpful as a list of knowledge out there that I borrowed. In case you are interested, I tried a "Complete" HD install, but found that on my laptop it would make Xorg unrecoverable if I accidentally shut the lid when Puppy was running. This appears not to be a problem with a "Frugal" (Co-Exist) install, so I've decided on frugal installation in a separate partition. Boot times seem to be similar on my Dell 500m.
Anyway, I've put a list of necessary reading together with details of what I did:
1. Partition the HD drive with GParted on the Puppy2.14 LiveCD, ideally FAT32 Primary (hda1) for Windows, ext2 for LINUX (e.g. hda5) and a linux swap partition (e.g. hda6). Make both the Windows and Linux partitions bootable. I actually have an extra FAT32 and ext2 partition for files and programmes as well. Make sure they are all formatted appropriately (search for "mkfs" and "mkswap" in http://linux.about.com).
2. Install Windows as usual to primary partition. This bit takes the longest!
3. Do a frugal install to a linux (ext2) partition of your choice:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 11&t=15732
I had to edit this advice: Boot from LiveCD. Use the Puppy Universal Installer, select "Co-exist" for installation type. Select GRUBconfig from the System Menu, and do an auto-install with all the defaults selected (ignore the advice to install to MBR). You will have to tell it where to install - just give your Linux partition (e.g. /dev/hda5).
4. Set up a dual boot system with Windows (2000 or XP):
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=14873
This gives you an easy escape back to Windows if you are frightened by Puppy! The GRUB menu file needs to be edited for a Frugal Install as follows:
5. Boot from LiveCD. Ensure Linux partition is mounted (click USB drive icon, then select "Mount" next to hda5). This automatically opens Rox, click on /mnt/hda5/boot/grub/menu.lst (opens in the text editor), and adjust the 2 lines that start like this as follows:
kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEDIA=idehd ro vga=normal
initrd /initrd.gz
Then save it where it is.
6. Hopefully, this should now work. For some reason, my Puppy2.14 doesn't auto-detect my swap file, so I had to do edit /etc/rc.d/rc.local with a swapon statement:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 71&t=16371
The linux installation seems complicated, but actually is a lot quicker than installing Windows. You just have to do a bit of work, rather than watching the screen.
Issues left for me?
1. My Dell still hangs if I close the screen.
2. The screen blanks, but the backlight stays on when left unattended.
I think these are all Dell 500m specific, but I'm still searching the forums for answers! So in answer to your question - No. But it's not that hard.
Hello Big Brute,
if you like have a look at the Puppy manual, chapter 4.3
http://www.puppy-linux.info/en/manual/p ... /main.html
if you like have a look at the Puppy manual, chapter 4.3
http://www.puppy-linux.info/en/manual/p ... /main.html
Just to add a couple of thoughts and experiences. 100% agree with Bruce - so many 'smaller' HDs available as junk, there really is no benefit from anything other than a full install for those fiddling with older junk at home. Live CDs were originally intended as a demonstration tool, but now, along with USB key fob installations, can be useful for those on the move. As I've said before, I've no time for worthless laptops and proprietary boxes, which are increasingly foisted on a public far too willing to accept their own ignorance - build your own!!
Also, as I've been advocating for many years now, the complete solution to running multiple OSes for multiple users, is to adopt the caddy system, as reiterated by ezeze, above. Caddies are cheap.
The problem for Puppy is that it is so good and so comprehensive that it is gestating into a major distro. My own preference would be for parallel development of a MeanPup with Opera, always trying to reduce the footprint and resource requirement, with a MaxPup - Muppy - with no upper limits and trying to satisfy as many requests from users as possible. It will not be popular, but in my opinion, other developments are an unnecessary distraction and, in the longer term, will be counter productive.
Also, as I've been advocating for many years now, the complete solution to running multiple OSes for multiple users, is to adopt the caddy system, as reiterated by ezeze, above. Caddies are cheap.
The problem for Puppy is that it is so good and so comprehensive that it is gestating into a major distro. My own preference would be for parallel development of a MeanPup with Opera, always trying to reduce the footprint and resource requirement, with a MaxPup - Muppy - with no upper limits and trying to satisfy as many requests from users as possible. It will not be popular, but in my opinion, other developments are an unnecessary distraction and, in the longer term, will be counter productive.