(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Come on guys put some effort in to it.

Especially after installing a package the manual pops up in front of you. Manuals are there so people don't have to spend 5 or so hours walking someone through something only having to constatntly repeat the same information over and over again.

Actually it's damn right rude to ignore the help file when someone has put so much time and effort into it.

He is right.

Barry works to create the cutest Puppy in the history of Penguins. Many Puppys create Howto and sticky links and a whole wiki world of wackiness plus help and search and new Pups arrive (welcome new Pups) and expect to be petted and and treated well and thown frisbis and given dogee treats . . .

Hey BladeHunter - be kind to the New Puppys.

Go smash up some equipment if you feel the $3%^!

Wot you expect humans to be reasonable? tsk tsk - not in this dimension . . .
I never even bother with reasonableness - it is sort of mediocre . . .

PS. BladeHunter incidentally has helped loads of Pups with difficult set ups - just so you know . . . must be that time of the month

ouch

lobster, ouch.


though it's very true - i've enjoyed reading over bladehunter's posts, you're doing a great job w/the xfree86 puppy's, keep up the good work.

How about the ppl who ask these questions take the time to read the information that has been supplied to them.

DotPups makers spend tie dong the docs and that, the least the people could do that install them is take the time to read the instructions.


And being kind....try being there to help someone out from 10:30pm to 3:30am in the morning...where 99% of the questions asked were covered in the docs......

And on top of that the same info was being constantly repeated.....I even supplied an online link to the help file and that I suggested they printit out from windows to help them along.

Then when they asked how do I install it to harddisk so I don't need a cdrom to boot I said wait, after I've slept I'll put something toether for you...and what did they do...went ahead and stuffed there windows install up.....thankfully one of the forum members was able to help out with.

It's people that wont read and follow sound advice that (insert bad word here) things up and give Puppy and Linux in general an unfair wrap.

bladehunter, i agree with you.

there's an old saying (at least here in canada) that goes something along the line of


my point being, it's important to get this sh*t off yer chest, and you have every right to do so. but please try and remember that you can always trust people...

you can always trust people to do what you didn't expect them to to.

If I had a loon for every idiot I wanted to punch out.....I'd have a fair whack of money.....but it's casual ya know.


Maybe they're all just Newfies ?

wtf

btw, i watched dead end drive in, i know what you aussies are all about

lol

I can vaguely remember Toronto and Ottawa........maybe 3 out of 21 days hahahahahaha

glad that you had such a good time

I know that your post includes me, and you know I've read the help file. I've already given you the suggestion to make it more user-friendly, even if it does help a bunch.

I don't suppose it would help for me to point out that since the person writing the instruction manual already knows how the thing works he often unintentionally leaves out basic but important stuff because it doesn't occur to him that someone who wasn't present at the birth doesn't know those things.

It's tough to write a useful instruction manual. How much do you assume that the reader already knows? In the case of Puppy, users seem to span the range from Linux expert to 'how do you turn it on?' A friendly style is nice. Expand the explanations a bit, don't use abbreviations and acronyms any more than necessary, etc.

And, even if you do a good job, most people don't bother to read it anyway. Ah, well.

Someone once said that when developing software you should write the instruction manual first. It sounds like good advice. Has anyone ever tried it?

This is exactly the approach of the Tmxxine Project (Open Source Time Travel) using Puppy Linux

A lot of people (including my imaginary psychiatrist) think it is a crazy project.. Wikipedia and Wikibooks were so outraged at descriptions of something that is being reverse engineered from future existence they removed all references . . .

. . . meanwhile we are putting the resources together to write the language for the control console for the device
http://peace.wikicities.com/wiki/Resources

Sorry very off topic - but yes I agree
KISS

If instructions are VERY simple they will be useful to everyone

Simple does not mean verbose (covering every irrelevance)

It means concise!

Retina can help making help - start doing a help page here

http://www.ph-islands.net/puppy/

I would just like to add here that I think that Barry has done a brilliant job of adding helpful comments that pop up while you are configuring stuff. His style is perfect. He tells you what you need to know, and often the consequences of decisions as you go along. I can't think of a better-notated instance.

Having said that, those who get help - whether deserving or not - should be prepared to contribute to the overall Puppy effort by writing and publishing their own HOWTOS where they gather all their newfound knowledge and present it to people who are at the same developmental level.

. . . sometimes . . .

. . . a drone escapes from the MS collective. They have heard of a land of penguins but it seems there are hackers and other dubious people around it - they may even be prosecuted for using Linux (oh yes SCO have sown their FUD)

Now they hear of Puppy, it is easy and friendly. They have never been on their own. They have to 'burn an ISO' They do not know what an ISO is . . .
After many adventures they find themselves in a world part familiar, part strange and come to this forum . . .

Before they can tell of their adventures and efforts and offer questions a-plenty, they are told to be more self reliant.

"Welcome to the real world"

The idea of control over their OS - the ability to be free of collective viral implants and other systemic malware may be a surprise . . .

"With Freedom comes responsibility," as the advocate said to the Puppy

Everyone is welcome. Everyone will be frisked.

Stay frisky.
http://www.zen45800.zen.co.uk/puppy3/

One of the main strengths of this forum is its light tone, for which Lobster deserves much of the credit. Thank you, Lobster.

Many people have commented on how lively this forum is. I think that's because beginners feel they are not risking ridicule or wrath to ask questions. I can't remember a single flame war. I'd like to thank everyone for keeping it civil. Even Atang1 didn't make anyone stoop to name calling.

Having looked through several forums for information, I can understand how anyone, faced with the uncertain prospect of an answer despite days spent in front of the computer, might quickly give up and ask for help. Even using a search engine is no guarantee that a forum does not contain the answer you seek, and that you have not missed it. Barry has put by far the best help into Puppy that I've seen in any software, which unfortunately means that most people come to Puppy expecting little or nothing. RTFM is not really helpful advice, until they have had time to get to know Puppy and see what a treasure trove it is. So thank all you knowledgeable people who patiently answer those stoopid newbie questions.

Dear Friends of All Puppys,

Many thanks for everyones comments. Most intriguing . . . I think Flash may have to move us to MISC

In my years as a communicator with Penguins and other strange beings I have learnt that what is meant and what is conveyed may vary.

Like most people here I welcome new Puppys. Like most people here I liked to be helped and am dissapointed when no one can give me the exact info I require (preferably within 15 minutes of asking).
http://www.murga.org/%7Epuppy/viewtopic.php?p=7344#7344

(still awaiting help with that one . . .)

I am not reasonable. - I just expect everyone else to be . . .

I am no longer a Linux newby - now I am just a general purpose ignoramus.

Humour is very subjective and sometimes difficult to convey - so I tend to direct it upon myself and my imaginary psychiatrist.

The most helpful and useful thing we can do for Puppy is answering and helping newcomers - assuming we are not smart enought to program like BladeH, Barry, G2, Jesse, Ian etc etc.

Not up for it? (being kind to new Puppys) OK - that is fine. That too is reasonable. There may be other areas to get involved in. For me it is the wiki. Creating an evolving web site
http://www.zen45800.zen.co.uk/puppy3

Be
Be Kind - it works best (kind of the assembly language of human interaction)

. . . meanwhile I have a religion to run and offer heresies for . . .
http://www.zen45800.zen.co.uk/shrine/

Earlier in this thread Flash mentioned near the end in his post -

......"stoopid newbie questions"

Now Flash you have made nearly 600 posts to the Forum an old exprienced hand

How many "stoopid answers" have you given to let us say "none stoopid questions"

Q and A's both have their "stoopid elements"

I have seen answers given on the Forum by some of the lets call them experts and thought to myself "what a stoopid answer that was"

My own opinion there is no such thing as a "stoopid question"

Lazy questions maybe where the answer is available somewhere on the Forum or elsewhere

So don't let Puppy become a LUT's distro

Flash you do know what LUT stands for.... YOU DON'T whats the matter with you "stoopid or something".........Get my drift

Sorry, "stoopid newbie" was meant to be funny. I thought that would be obvious after reading the rest of my post. Ah, well..

Now time for a humorous story.

I was away from the office two days this week installing telemedicine (video conferencing) equipment at one of our locations.

My office has one such unit onsite.

"Somehow", the unit got turned on while I was away.

The camera is voice/motion activated.

When I came back today, there was a flurry of angry "newbie" co-workers. It seems that they activated the software and the camera was following them around when they moved near the unit. They placed a sheet of paper over the camera lens, so it could not "watch" them.

I think that they really thought that I activated the unit remotely and was doing the dirty deed.

The moral of the story?

If you are a "helper" person, you have to expect to get blamed for a "problem" or take some heat, whether it is your fault, or not.