Ultimate Puppy Machine
Ultimate Puppy Machine
What's your opinion of the ultimate Puppy machine? I have been wanting to build one and was just wondering what you may recommend. I thought of something small to match Puppies style. I'm still debating on the boot device (USB pen drive, Compact Flash in IDE adaptor, hard drive, or something else). 256MB of RAM seemed appropriate. I also thought about building my own case around a Mini-ITX board. What are your thoughts?
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nduanetesh
- Ultra Super-stud
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Hi,
A very interesting question...I have also considered building a puppy box around a mini-ITX board (looking at VIA EPIA line of boards). The idea of a computer the size of a small stack of CD cases really makes me giddy. And if you got the right board, with onboard sound, video, USB, Firewire, Ethernet, (WI-FI?), and for the sake of overkill, SATA and RAID (though both would be pretty meaningless with an OS that runs totally in RAM), you could build a HELL of a computer. However, I can't find an EPIA board for less than $100, which is turning me off. I also like the idea of 512MB of ram, but this is probably a carry-over from being a windows user. Is more than 256MB just overkill for puppy? (that question addressed to more experienced users) As for boot device, I've found USB devices to be somewhat unreliable, and I haven't played with hard drive installs yet. I think I would go with a small hard drive on board to hold the pup001 file (and maybe a swap partition as well), and run puppy from a CDRW. This way you can upgrade without wasting disks, and you're using what seems to be (at least in my experience) the most reliable way to run puppy.
If you decide to go for it and build the box, I'd love to hear about it. Be sure to post some pictures!
ND
A very interesting question...I have also considered building a puppy box around a mini-ITX board (looking at VIA EPIA line of boards). The idea of a computer the size of a small stack of CD cases really makes me giddy. And if you got the right board, with onboard sound, video, USB, Firewire, Ethernet, (WI-FI?), and for the sake of overkill, SATA and RAID (though both would be pretty meaningless with an OS that runs totally in RAM), you could build a HELL of a computer. However, I can't find an EPIA board for less than $100, which is turning me off. I also like the idea of 512MB of ram, but this is probably a carry-over from being a windows user. Is more than 256MB just overkill for puppy? (that question addressed to more experienced users) As for boot device, I've found USB devices to be somewhat unreliable, and I haven't played with hard drive installs yet. I think I would go with a small hard drive on board to hold the pup001 file (and maybe a swap partition as well), and run puppy from a CDRW. This way you can upgrade without wasting disks, and you're using what seems to be (at least in my experience) the most reliable way to run puppy.
If you decide to go for it and build the box, I'd love to hear about it. Be sure to post some pictures!
ND
Okay, here is the case I was thinking of until I could build my own. This is the motherboard I would use. I would also have them include the 256MB of RAM for a round total of $240 US with the case and 80W power supply. This does not include any drives but it could be a good start for a system, and I already have a USB pen drive with Puppy installed. Thoughts???
As far as building my own case, I am experienced in wood and metal work. I think I could come up with something interesting.
As far as building my own case, I am experienced in wood and metal work. I think I could come up with something interesting.
Last edited by dvw86 on Thu 01 Sep 2005, 06:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Pizzasgood
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Dude! I have the best idea yet! Put Puppy on a pair of Oakley Thumps! 
Sunglasses, MP3 player, and operating system all in one convenient package. Who says you can't have your operating system and wear it too?
Sunglasses, MP3 player, and operating system all in one convenient package. Who says you can't have your operating system and wear it too?[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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nduanetesh
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I finally got a chance to check out your links, and I think you've done it (put together the ultimate puppy box, that is). To make it even more ultimate-er (...uh...) I think you should go with 512MB of ram and a 512MB USB key. Seeing as how this 'puter is being built to run puppy exclusively, I don't see any reason to skimp on the only two storage media within the computer, and cramp puppy's room to grow. With 512MB of ram and key space, puppy will have room to create and store a full sized (256MB, that is) pup001 file, and you'll have the room to add software and expand as you see fit for quite a while. And given the cheap prices of RAM and USB keys (check www.pricewatch.com, if you don't already know about it), you might as well do it right, eh?
I mentioned in my earlier post that I've found USB keys to sometimes be unreliable. I have to retract that statement. I recently picked up a SuperTalent 128MB key specifically for running puppy, and it worked great on all of the desktops I tried, but when I attempted to boot my girlfriend's laptop with it this weekend, it wouldn't get past the opening "syslinux" prompt. I thought the key had become corrupt or something via a bug in puppy shutdown or some other electronic magic, but that was not the case. When I got the key home I plugged it into my own 'puter and it fired up just fine. So, I'm going to say I was wrong and USB keys seem to be quite reliable, particularly when only used on one computer. The Super Talent key that I have, despite being very inexpensive and a pretty no-name brand, has been really great, and I'm very happy with it.
Well done, man. You've got me seriously considering following in your footsteps.
Just a thought, though...I know the blurb on the site says, "fully compatible with...linux", but are you sure that the onboard hardware will run under puppy? Are you concerned enough to worry about it now? or would you rather put the thing together and tackle the minor adversities as they (may or may not) come? (I'd go for that last option, myself.)
Oh, and one other thing...what are you going to do with that PCI slot? My vote? A wireless card, of course! Unless, of course, you're on dialup and must install a modem.
Good luck. Let us know if/when you get it together!
ND
I mentioned in my earlier post that I've found USB keys to sometimes be unreliable. I have to retract that statement. I recently picked up a SuperTalent 128MB key specifically for running puppy, and it worked great on all of the desktops I tried, but when I attempted to boot my girlfriend's laptop with it this weekend, it wouldn't get past the opening "syslinux" prompt. I thought the key had become corrupt or something via a bug in puppy shutdown or some other electronic magic, but that was not the case. When I got the key home I plugged it into my own 'puter and it fired up just fine. So, I'm going to say I was wrong and USB keys seem to be quite reliable, particularly when only used on one computer. The Super Talent key that I have, despite being very inexpensive and a pretty no-name brand, has been really great, and I'm very happy with it.
Well done, man. You've got me seriously considering following in your footsteps.
Just a thought, though...I know the blurb on the site says, "fully compatible with...linux", but are you sure that the onboard hardware will run under puppy? Are you concerned enough to worry about it now? or would you rather put the thing together and tackle the minor adversities as they (may or may not) come? (I'd go for that last option, myself.)
Oh, and one other thing...what are you going to do with that PCI slot? My vote? A wireless card, of course! Unless, of course, you're on dialup and must install a modem.
Good luck. Let us know if/when you get it together!
ND
I'm not sure about this, but if you have the same amount of RAM as USB flash disk space, and you fill up all of the USB flash disk with files, won't you then use up all of the RAM when it loads the flash drive contents into the ramdisk? If this is true wouldn't it be a good idea to have more MB of RAM available than MB of flashdisk? Again, I'm not sure about this. It's just a thought I had.nduanetesh wrote:I think you should go with 512MB of ram and a 512MB USB key.
I guess that there is never any guarantee that everything will work. I was just looking for something that showed some promise of being linux friendly.nduanetesh wrote:Just a thought, though...I know the blurb on the site says, "fully compatible with...linux", but are you sure that the onboard hardware will run under puppy? Are you concerned enough to worry about it now? or would you rather put the thing together and tackle the minor adversities as they (may or may not) come? (I'd go for that last option, myself.)
Since I'm on highspeed internet I thought of a wireless adaptor or possibly a nicer video card.nduanetesh wrote: Oh, and one other thing...what are you going to do with that PCI slot? My vote? A wireless card, of course! Unless, of course, you're on dialup and must install a modem.
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nduanetesh
- Ultra Super-stud
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The short answer to your comment is "yes". More ram than USB key space is a good idea. From Barry's page, "how puppy works":
"Just to give an idea of what is "enough" RAM, a PC with 256M RAM matches well with a 128M Flash drive. The pup100 file will be about 60M, and there's enough RAM for everything to load into ramdisk."
A PC with 256MB ram, matched with a 128 flash drive means that approx. 60MB of Ram is dedicated to OS, 60 dedicated to pup001, and about 128mb left for actual RAM (information swapping) duties. So, from this we can infer:
With a 512 key, you'll have about 60mb of puppy, and a 256mb pup001 file by default....so, when you load everything into ram, you get 316mb of "stuff" loaded, leaving about 200mb for RAM duties. Sounds OK to me.
The problem comes if you someday outgrow the 256mb pup file and decide to resize it manually. You have an additional 200MB on the key to grow the pup file, but as you do it, you lose extra RAM space on the 'puter. So, in this case, yes you may need more than 512MB of ram in the 'puter. But I think you'll be OK for quite a while, since I think it will take a while to outgrow a 256MB pup file.
I also thought of a higher powered vid card for your free pci slot, but then I thought that since gaming isn't really a strong point for linux (will even the ported games run on puppy?), you probably don't need a better vid card to run GTKfish.
Just my thoughts.
The more we talk about this, the more I want to built this computer. Grrr...must...resist...urge...to...spend...
ND
"Just to give an idea of what is "enough" RAM, a PC with 256M RAM matches well with a 128M Flash drive. The pup100 file will be about 60M, and there's enough RAM for everything to load into ramdisk."
A PC with 256MB ram, matched with a 128 flash drive means that approx. 60MB of Ram is dedicated to OS, 60 dedicated to pup001, and about 128mb left for actual RAM (information swapping) duties. So, from this we can infer:
With a 512 key, you'll have about 60mb of puppy, and a 256mb pup001 file by default....so, when you load everything into ram, you get 316mb of "stuff" loaded, leaving about 200mb for RAM duties. Sounds OK to me.
The problem comes if you someday outgrow the 256mb pup file and decide to resize it manually. You have an additional 200MB on the key to grow the pup file, but as you do it, you lose extra RAM space on the 'puter. So, in this case, yes you may need more than 512MB of ram in the 'puter. But I think you'll be OK for quite a while, since I think it will take a while to outgrow a 256MB pup file.
I also thought of a higher powered vid card for your free pci slot, but then I thought that since gaming isn't really a strong point for linux (will even the ported games run on puppy?), you probably don't need a better vid card to run GTKfish.
Just my thoughts.
The more we talk about this, the more I want to built this computer. Grrr...must...resist...urge...to...spend...
ND
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Pizzasgood
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FYI, I ported my unfinished "game" to Linux and it worked fine in Puppy. As of now, I'm developing it under Linux instead of Windows. As I go, I'm going to make sure it still runs in Puppy, so when I finish (probably in a couple years), Puppy will be supported by it right of the bat 
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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nduanetesh
- Ultra Super-stud
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Hi Joe,
If you're really jonesing to build a 'puter, this little puppy box that dvw86 is proposing is about the easiest and cheapest way to do it. With no hard drive, CD-rom drive, external sound, video, or LAN to install or configure...it really doesn't get any easier. If you buy the board, case and RAM from the same site, you screw board into case, hookup power plug, insert ram, close case, and you're done! of course, you'll need another 'puter to put puppy onto your USB key (not included).
Otherwise, I highly recommend you pick up the "Guide to Building a Dream PC" book recently put out by the MaximumPC magazine staff (www.maximumpc.com). I'm a big fan of the magazine, and not only do they deliver some very informative (pretty geeky) technical info, but they're also very good at simplifying things for newbies. I think it would be a great starting point for someone wanting to put together their first 'puter.
ND
If you're really jonesing to build a 'puter, this little puppy box that dvw86 is proposing is about the easiest and cheapest way to do it. With no hard drive, CD-rom drive, external sound, video, or LAN to install or configure...it really doesn't get any easier. If you buy the board, case and RAM from the same site, you screw board into case, hookup power plug, insert ram, close case, and you're done! of course, you'll need another 'puter to put puppy onto your USB key (not included).
Otherwise, I highly recommend you pick up the "Guide to Building a Dream PC" book recently put out by the MaximumPC magazine staff (www.maximumpc.com). I'm a big fan of the magazine, and not only do they deliver some very informative (pretty geeky) technical info, but they're also very good at simplifying things for newbies. I think it would be a great starting point for someone wanting to put together their first 'puter.
ND
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Pizzasgood
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Iso tactics/rpg with customizable robotic exoskeletons (think power-assist armor, not 18 foot tall mechs), and two ancient warring groups of people who can project their energy (think toned down Dragon Ball Z) and channel it into weapons, or even make weapons out of the energy itself (only those who are incredably skilled), and can amplify it with technology. (If you think about it, Tech and Magic are the same thing. Take a chainsaw back to the 1200's and see what they call it. Magic is tech that we don't understand.) It will be either 2d or iso traveling, and iso combat. It's a long way from completion, but I have enough of the engine finished to walk around in a 2d environment. Last summer I made a simple iso engine in Qbasic, so that won't be too hard. I'm making a fighting/platformer based on a webcomic first, though.What's the game?
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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I just built a mini-itx system with a Casetronic C158 box and a VIA M10000 motherboard. Works like a dream with Puppy! I'm posting with it right now.
The CF/IDE adapter works fine, as well and the slot is seen as an ide drive. The only problem is Puppy does not know what to make of the CF card when trying to do an install to it. Of course, the card is formatted fat16.
Anybody done this yet?
The CF/IDE adapter works fine, as well and the slot is seen as an ide drive. The only problem is Puppy does not know what to make of the CF card when trying to do an install to it. Of course, the card is formatted fat16.
Anybody done this yet?
I love it when a plan comes together
--Hannibal Smith
--Hannibal Smith
Pics?!?!?danleff wrote:I just built a mini-itx system with a Casetronic C158 box and a VIA M10000 motherboard. Works like a dream with Puppy! I'm posting with it right now.
The CF/IDE adapter works fine, as well and the slot is seen as an ide drive. The only problem is Puppy does not know what to make of the CF card when trying to do an install to it. Of course, the card is formatted fat16.
Anybody done this yet?
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nduanetesh
- Ultra Super-stud
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- Joined: Fri 06 May 2005, 02:36
I installed puppy 1.0.2 on a kingston cf-card with a 44pin adapter on my laptop.
Use the usb-install script and press enter (to skip the usb recognition) until you are told to enter device (/dev/sda1), then type /dev/hda1 instead.
It just worked.
It has been discussed before in:
http://www.goosee.com/puppy/sforum/simp ... 1103184625
Use the usb-install script and press enter (to skip the usb recognition) until you are told to enter device (/dev/sda1), then type /dev/hda1 instead.
It just worked.
It has been discussed before in:
http://www.goosee.com/puppy/sforum/simp ... 1103184625
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BarryK
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Allan,
Installing it that way, using the install-to-usb script, looks like a good way to do it, as long as there is enough ram to hold the pup100 file.
At bootup pup100 will be copied into ram, now this interests me because for usb this is very slow. I guess having the fast ide interface makes bootup real fast?
Installing it that way, using the install-to-usb script, looks like a good way to do it, as long as there is enough ram to hold the pup100 file.
At bootup pup100 will be copied into ram, now this interests me because for usb this is very slow. I guess having the fast ide interface makes bootup real fast?