256MB of RAM but can't install Firefox/T'bird in 2.14

[lotech]

I like Puppy as it is small and does not require state of the art hardware to run, I installed it on USB flash and carry around in my pocket, but I found it is getting harder to run on 'low spec' hardware, well it is not really low spec just lack of memory, not really lack of actually my notebook still got 256M I think it is not too tough for the pup isn't it !? the problem is I can no longer run Firefox without crashing mad, I can't even install Thunderbird although there is still 47M and the package is only 11M, there should be enough space to unpack and install, I can't swap as Puppy does not recognize NTFS, I think it is better to replace Seamonkey with FF in standard build then to install by user afterward I think will be much stable.

PS. I am writing this with 2.14, newer version is impossible to use here.

[WhoDo]

not really low spec just lack of memory, not really lack of actually my notebook still got 256M I think it is not too tough for the pup isn't it !?

Perfect amount of RAM for running Puppy.

the problem is I can no longer run Firefox without crashing mad,

No usually a Puppy problem. More likely related to a clash between Java and Flash 9.

I can't even install Thunderbird although there is still 47M and the package is only 11M, there should be enough space to unpack and install,

Yes it should be enough, but you should still have some room to spare outside your pup_save.2fs file on your flash drive. Try moving some some stuff there that you don't need to be in the pup_save.2fs file - wallpaper, icons, etc.

I can't swap as Puppy does not recognize NTFS,

Again, not Puppy's problem. You may need to run scandisk over your NTFS partition to fix errors, or even defrag that partition. Puppy will recognize NTFS partitions that don't have serious errors.

I think it is better to replace Seamonkey with FF in standard build then to install by user afterward I think will be much stable.

Stability problems with Firefox will not be resolved by making it the default. On some machines it will be too slow to be usable. That's why Seamonkey is preferred as the better compromise. Try Opera and see how you like it.

PS. I am writing this with 2.14, newer version is impossible to use here.

Hmmm... since Puppy 2.15CE was built from 2.14 Unleashed, it shouldn't be a problem. Have you tried 2.16Beta?

[Sage]

WD makes a lot of valuable comments, but you are not the first, lotech, to get seriously worried about the ever increasing bloat of Puppy and the increasing resource demands, particularly of memory. [The present pre-occupation with flash memory is also a misdirection, in my opinion, and for this project, but that is a separate issue.]. 128Mb should represent overkill for a compact distro.
There is little doubt that Seamonster is the greatest threat to the wider adoption of Puppy. Barry has issued an experimental Opera version - it is very good. There is also a Micro-Muppy and John's MeanPup with Opera. You will find these superior and address most of your present shortcomings. The big advantage of Dillo is that it does NOT propagate all the advertising flash cr*p that saturates your resources. Another reason to work harder to overthrow the capitalist pigs and all their running dogs....

[lotech]

I installed the 2.16beta and now using FF, and I got about 50M free as shown on the taskbar, but I couldn't install TB the error is I only got 10768 blocks free where 71200 is required, suggest to increase the pup save file, then I increase it +128M from 256M, reboot and install TB again, the same error with the same figure ~!

[lotech]

I download the pup file to hard disk to install manually instead of using the installer but still doesn't work, same error with different figure, so it is definitely a memory problem.

[Sage]

Just who is the joker who keeps changing the titles of contributions? Makes it difficult to follow a thread. Apologies if it was your good self lotech. If not, did you have the courtesy of being consulted - I've never had that. I was always taught that if you can't make a valid contribution to keep your trap shut!
Pro bono & co, no doubt...

[lotech]

As far as I remember that's not me !

[tytower]

Yes it should be enough, but you should still have some room to spare outside your pup_save.2fs file on your flash drive. Try moving some some stuff there that you don't need to be in the pup_save.2fs file - wallpaper, icons, etc.

Just how do you do this please WhoDo

[lotech]

I've a stupid question, is that the pup_save.2fs file reserved space, so that no matter how free it is it still remain same big on the flash ? and since I install brand new from scratch, TB is the 2nd apps I added after FF, and the pup_save.2fs still got over 300M free, and 100M free on flash, in this case TB doesn't install then 256M RAM is really not enough for this Puppy that's what I think, or I got it wrong ?

[WhoDo]

Yes it should be enough, but you should still have some room to spare outside your pup_save.2fs file on your flash drive. Try moving some some stuff there that you don't need to be in the pup_save.2fs file - wallpaper, icons, etc.

Just how do you do this please WhoDo

Sure. Anything you place in /mnt/home is outside the pup_save.2fs file. That is the physical root of the partition and usually contains vmlinuz, initrd.gz, pup_2xx.sfs and zdrv_2xx.sfs files.

Hope that helps.

[lotech]

I finally installed TB with another PC with more RAM and a swap, that confirms 256M is not enough, 384M is about right to make Puppy practically useful, at least for the 2.16.

[lotech]

Well I try to install Opera and NVU with a 3rd PC that got 512M RAM and 230M swap avaliable to Puppy, guess what, Opera installed properly but NVU not, still got the error of not enough space even when I download to hard drive not the flash, I still got 280M free on pup save file 100M free on flash at that time, I think there is something seriously wrong ! and I don't like the idea of 'flushing memory to flash' in regular basis that really hurts the flash drive, as far as I remember I don't have too much of memory problem before 2.14.

[Sage]

Well, there you have it, lotech!
Although Firefox is most popular amongst Puppy users:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 6&start=60
it has had many issues recently, esp. with flash and java.
Opera stands out as a clear second choice and Sylpheed makes a good companion email client. It works well and reliably. Folks wanting all the bells and whistles should be using SuSE!
I just cannot understand Barry's preoccupation with Seamonster. It has attracted a regular spate of disapproval in these columns. For a compact distro it is a real disaster. Perhaps John will resurrect MeanPup soon?
Brave folks with the ability seem to be using one of the bare Puppy frameworks and installing Opera as their browser of choice with good results.

[pupshock]

On a laptop with 128MB RAM, I'm running a very quick and frisky:
full HD install of Puppy 2.14 on
hda1 4.6GB (982 MB used,3.7GB free), hda2 swap (245MB).

Using menu>system>xproc, i see free RAM = 24MB.
with seamonkey: free RAM = 7.5MB
with Opera: free RAM = 3.5 MB.
These numbers obviously refer to physical RAM.

However, a little blue box in the lower right screen
shows massive 'free memory' of 3.5 GB. Huh?

I also read that 'RAM' depends on the pup_save file. Surely not?
Anyway, i check menu>utility>resize personal storagefile:
I get 'ERROR' Puppy is not using a personal storage file.
Strangely, i do have a 512MB pup_save.2fs on hda1.
It is nowhere near 3.5GB.

The 245MB swap partition is also nowhere near 3.5GB.

This is very confusing.

[pupshock]

oohh sorry. This noob clicked on the blue box and read
the details. The state of confusion no longer exists.

[WhoDo]

Opera installed properly but NVU not, still got the error of not enough space even when I download to hard drive not the flash, I still got 280M free on pup save file 100M free on flash at that time, I think there is something seriously wrong !

Ok, now I have to ask WHERE are you getting the programs you are trying to install? Are you using the old dotpup versions, some of which were actually faulty and would report an out of space error as a result?

[lotech]

I've been using FF on Ubuntu for a year or so and it does crash but not as often as with Puppy, and I use Opera too when FF crashes. I can not deny Opera is fast and stable also small footprint, but it takes a long time for me getting use to it, the UI is not clean enough I can't find what I want as easy as with FF, the good thing is it comes with mail client at such a small download which is amazing, but again it is not as easy to use it works differently and quite confusing or this is only me, I use Opera on my cell phone as there is no better choice, but for desktop it is the last option for me.

[lotech]

I install with the package manager

[WhoDo]

I install with the package manager

Ok, right there is your problem. The package manager references a number of applications that no longer exist. For that reason the manager often reports there isn't enough space to install those packages.

Search the forum for Puppy Software Installer, and install that with its dependencies (3 files). Then you should have access to all of the latest software from the current repositories, including PETget.

Remember to update the packages list the first time you start up. If you have trouble with that, there is a timeout option that needs to be changed; but only if you have trouble getting a full package list.

Hope that helps.

[lotech]

Thanks for the tips, I thought everything will work out of the box, I will check that out.