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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Good Puppy
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JaDy

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 156
Location: SE PA USA

PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2005, 11:02    Post subject:  Good Puppy  

Good Puppy
I like Puppy Linux. It's tiny, fast and good. The tiny part is obvious. For fast, well, I viewed a video on a DVD using Puppy and got ten FPS. On the same computer using Win98, that video got five FPS. So, Puppy Linux is twice as fast as Win98. By "good" I mean that it has the toys and tools needed, and the ability to install optional toys and tools. But "good" also means that it's bug-free -- well, almost, but it's getting there. I want to feel safe giving a Puppy Linux CD to my sister; I don't want her crying to me. I want to recommend Puppy Linux to my friends; I don't want to make enemies nor soil my reputation. And, I want to use and depend on Puppy Linux for myself. So, I offer the following manifesto. I apologize in advance. Wrote fast. Goofs happen. Tell me.

One Serious Puppy
For Puppy Linux to be recognized by the open-source community, it needs to get serious. Why recognition? We instinctively know why, but we don't spell it out and accept the requirements. We've talked about these things, directly and indirectly, on the forum. We know that more users means more testing which means a healthy Puppy. We know that more developers means more ideas which means smaller, faster, better. We know that more critics means more visibility which means we stay honest, with ourselves and others -- a faithful Puppy. And all that means recognition by the open-source community. And that means open source, reproducibility, releases, packages, etc.

Open Source
Puppy Linux needs a full source repository. Needn't be a change management system, although that would be ideal. At least, all the source needed to reproduce Puppy Linux must be available in a single archive file.

Reproducibility
Puppy Linux needs its own development system. Using another distribution, like Slackware or whatever, is fine for the bootstrap period. But at some point we need to be able to assemble (read compile) all the components from the source archive to build a Puppy release.

Releases
Puppy Linux needs certain releases: a stable release known to have the least possible faults; a candidate release for general user testing; a development release for new things. The stable release should include the CD-live version, the source archive, the unleashed packages, and the DotPup packages. The candidate release should include all the same, but changed periodically as problems are resolved. The development release should include all the same, but in experimental stages.

Packages
The CD-live stable release should contain the minimum packages needed to satisfy the goals of Puppy Linux: tiny, fast, good. It needn't contain development packages, however these must be available as unleashed packages. We all want more toys and tools for Puppy Linux, so we need development packages. We cannot depend on other distributions for the writing of programs for Puppy -- we must be able to do development within Puppy.

Exceptions
Sometimes we want or need something that isn't open-source, such as Java, Acrobat, Opera, etc. Oh well. But at least the Puppy Linux source archive can contain packages to make it as easy as possible to fetch such things. And yes, for those packages which are open-source, I expect the source archive to contain those sources, and not just links to where the source can be found. Sure, that means the source archive will be large (although it can be in several pieces). To assure the maximum stability of the stable release, we must have the actual source used to build the stable release and not trust nor depend on the originators.

Development
Certainly, users should be able, using their stable release, to fetch DotPup, PupGet, etc. packages from the candidate release, the development release and foreign sources as well as from the stable release. In this way they have a stable platform from which to enhance, expand and develop new toys and tools for Puppy Linux.

Patches
Nobody's perfect. Every Puppy has its spots. New things make old dogs sick. Okay, enough. Point is: A stable Puppy Linux may need be fixed (sorry). So, Puppy Linux needs patch management. Whenever a problem in a stable Puppy is found and fixed, we really must offer a DotPup to the users. And provide notification of available DotPup fixes. Waiting for the next release just won't do. And, a fix description on the forum is inadequate. Once a fix is stabilized, a DotPup package should be posted on the WiKi.

Conclusion
I like Puppy Linux. It's tiny, fast and good. I've tried many Linux distributions and spent a great deal of time with Slackware, Slax and Amigo. They just didn't cut it. All were too big, too slow and/or too buggy. Puppy Linux is my last hope for a Linux that's useful on both old and new computer hardware. Really, it's amazing. This Puppy can do wonderful tricks. This Puppy can learn new tricks.
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2005, 22:39    Post subject:  

yep, that's all good stuff.

Puppy did start off small-time. One guy (me) hacking away.

But, we are gradually moving toward the kind of things that you have mentioned. Or at least thinking about it.
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2005, 01:54    Post subject: Re: Good Puppy  

JaDy wrote:

One Serious Puppy
We know that more developers means more ideas which means smaller, faster, better. We know that more critics means more visibility which means we stay honest, with ourselves and others -- a faithful Puppy. And all that means recognition by the open-source community. And that means open source, reproducibility, releases, packages, etc.


Firefox was marketed. I think Puppy needs this kind of expertise. People think they have to program to help Puppy. Not so. They can write and comment and spread the news. We have a requirement for helping paw services which at the moment means hanging out on IRC (even on Idle)

We need logos and mini reviews. Pics on Blogs. We need a press release template. Who want a Puppy T shirt? A puppy mug?

We need a place AND deserve a place on sourceforge - where are our superstuds?

Have you been to the projects page on the website?

Have you created one on the wiki? I notice these comments appeared on the wiki - so well done


JaDy wrote:


Reproducibility
Puppy Linux needs its own development system. Using another distribution, like Slackware or whatever, is fine for the bootstrap period. But at some point we need to be able to assemble (read compile) all the components from the source archive to build a Puppy release.

. . . We cannot depend on other distributions for the writing of programs for Puppy -- we must be able to do development within Puppy.

. . .Once a fix is stabilized, a DotPup package should be posted on the WiKi.

. .. . This Puppy can do wonderful tricks. This Puppy can learn new tricks.



How to go about this? People are developing Pups with Perl and other language interests

But for developers we need? I know we have tincc but is that sufficient? We also require an assembler? Tcl is available as it is script based and all the shell scripts are in puppy already. On the Puppy web page is a link to projects - perhaps a start would be to transfer this to the wiki

or for people to make public pledges of what they will do for Puppy? This can be done on the wiki.

For example GuestToo has a page devoted to what's happening and what plans exist:

http://www.goosee.com/puppy/wikka/GuestTooToDoList



Cool

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mjg


Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 109
Location: Kalgoorlie, Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2005, 03:58    Post subject:  

This is a good discussion. I think we users can do more to help in this regard, and maybe a marketing section of the forum should be started to contribute and test ideas.

I can't believe how far Puppy has come since I started using it in late December 2004. The work that Barry and GuestToo have done is phenomenal. Package management, automatic USB install, etc are great tools and it's still only 60MB to start with! Optional add-ons such as Gimp and Textmaker. Fantastic.

I can see Puppy becoming the distro of choice for people who want to try Linux without the hassle (and risk) of dual boot.
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2005, 05:42    Post subject:  

Well one of the options on the forum is user groups - what is that for john?
Perhaps that could be used?

As people help the Pup it can be added to the news section - for example I started a Puppy reviews page . . .
http://www.goosee.com/puppy/wikka/LatestNews

Here is a list of things puppy needs:

icons and graphics for links and web pages

http://www.goosee.com/puppy/wikka/IconsPuppy

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JaDy

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 156
Location: SE PA USA

PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2005, 23:08    Post subject:  

Lobster wrote:
Quote:
Have you been to the projects page on the website?

Have you created one on the wiki? I notice these comments appeared on the wiki - so well done
If my dedication to puppy training is in question, well: I've posted several wiki pages in CategoryDocumentation and plan to do more; I've built PupWin98; I'm working on PupWin95 and PupWinXP; I plan to build several DotPup packages. There's more, but, enough. One should do what one does best.
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Wrote fast. Goofs happen. Tell me.
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2005, 00:38    Post subject:  

My question is open to everone. Cool Like many users, Linux is new to me. It is NOT my OS of choice. I would through choice prefer NOT to have any requirement or need for an OS.

It would just be there and I would use it without thought.
That is not available but that is the aim of Puppy. So I support that as much as I am able. As I know you do JaDy (aka "The Rev")

As it has been written: "Be of Good Cheer, Puppy is here

"
Smile

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