Before I go and get myself into more hot water by doing things wrong can someone guide me on the best way forward to a frugal install. Currently I have both XP and Puppy on my HD + a swap partition. What I want to do is either to completely reformat the HD and then set up a smallish NTFS of say 15-20 MB for XP, with the remainder being an ext2 and a swap (if required, I currently have 750 MB RAM) or alter the current Linux partition sizes.
When I initially set things up I used Gparted from the start menu and on going back to see if I could alter the space allocated to XP I found that both the ext2 and swap partitions were locked. The Gparted forum advised that I would have to get the full CD to unlock these items.
I have a rather mixed up frugal install as somehow or other I do not have a pup save file but what ever I change seems to be automatically saved without asking me whether I require it or not. This is why I wish to do a reinstall of Puppy.
What is the best way forward? Do I get a Gparted CD or is it best to fully reformat the 80GB HD? If it is the latter what is the best way to do it ?
I have an instruction issued by WhoDo on what to do when installing Puppy so it is only the best method of preparing the HD to receive everything.
Thanking you in anticipation
Ian
Preparing a HD for a frugal install
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cagliostro
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Sun 19 Feb 2006, 02:27
- Location: Southern California
repartition HD
You may not need to do a complete reformat. I assume you have made full backups of all critical information, programs, and settings to CDs or DVDs.
A year ago I bought a back-to-school computer special for a very good price. It came with Windows XP. As soon as I got it home I tried to repartition the hard drive to put Linux on it. But Windows XP had been installed with a tiny sliver of information at about 80 GB. I ran defrag over and over again to no effect. Windows XP defrag simply doesn't work. A graphic display of the hard disk showed all programs at the start of the disk, but that tiny sliver up around 80 GB, so GParted wouldn't let me make the ntfs partition smaller than that.
Then someone on a Linux forum told me to get Perfect Disk. This will do a "smart defrag" and put everything at the start of the disk. The url I have is for the free 30-day evaluation copy:
www.raxco.com/products/downloadit/
Use Perfect Disk in Windows to do a "smart defrag" and compact the XP install to the start of its partition. I found that GParted would then allow me to shrink the Windows partion size down to around 18 GB. Note that I used a Puppy CD for everything, starting it with "pfix=ram", and using the Gparted that is in Puppy. There is a graphic display, so just put the mouse pointer at the end of the primary partition display, and drag it left to shrink it. This way you won't have to re-install Windows XP.
You may need to delete the existing ext2 and swap partition. The Windows partition needs to be a primary [bootable] partition, but the rest can be an extended partition.
What I did, after shrinking the XP partition, was create the next 15 GB partition, and format it to vfat32. This is the data partition, which is shared between Windows and Linux. In Windows this becomes drive D: [the 15 GB size is not accidental, keeping this under 16 GB makes the cluster size much smaller].
You definitely need a swap partition. Normally this is twice the size of your RAM. With 750 MB RAM I'm not sure what to say. Twice this is 1.5 GB, but my personal opinion is that a swap of 1.2 GB is plenty in this case.
Since you have an 80 GB hard drive you have more than 40 GB left. Ext3 may be better than ext2--most distros can use ext3, though a few such as Myah OS require ext2. I would suggest making two ext3 partitions (or three for more flexibility) in this remaining space.
You already know how to do a Puppy frugal install. It sounds as though when presented with save options [the first time you exit from Puppy], you chose to save to the hard drive partition. Most people choose to save to a file, which creates pup_save.2fs. Why? Because then you can simply make a copy of your pup_save.2fs file and you have done a total backup of all your settings and installs. I always keep four progressive backups of pup_save.2fs. You may want to consider trying this. I believe the option to save to file (pup_save.2fs) is the first choice offered on your initial shutdown.
Of course you can modify the above suggestions to your own needs. Hope this helps.
A year ago I bought a back-to-school computer special for a very good price. It came with Windows XP. As soon as I got it home I tried to repartition the hard drive to put Linux on it. But Windows XP had been installed with a tiny sliver of information at about 80 GB. I ran defrag over and over again to no effect. Windows XP defrag simply doesn't work. A graphic display of the hard disk showed all programs at the start of the disk, but that tiny sliver up around 80 GB, so GParted wouldn't let me make the ntfs partition smaller than that.
Then someone on a Linux forum told me to get Perfect Disk. This will do a "smart defrag" and put everything at the start of the disk. The url I have is for the free 30-day evaluation copy:
www.raxco.com/products/downloadit/
Use Perfect Disk in Windows to do a "smart defrag" and compact the XP install to the start of its partition. I found that GParted would then allow me to shrink the Windows partion size down to around 18 GB. Note that I used a Puppy CD for everything, starting it with "pfix=ram", and using the Gparted that is in Puppy. There is a graphic display, so just put the mouse pointer at the end of the primary partition display, and drag it left to shrink it. This way you won't have to re-install Windows XP.
You may need to delete the existing ext2 and swap partition. The Windows partition needs to be a primary [bootable] partition, but the rest can be an extended partition.
What I did, after shrinking the XP partition, was create the next 15 GB partition, and format it to vfat32. This is the data partition, which is shared between Windows and Linux. In Windows this becomes drive D: [the 15 GB size is not accidental, keeping this under 16 GB makes the cluster size much smaller].
You definitely need a swap partition. Normally this is twice the size of your RAM. With 750 MB RAM I'm not sure what to say. Twice this is 1.5 GB, but my personal opinion is that a swap of 1.2 GB is plenty in this case.
Since you have an 80 GB hard drive you have more than 40 GB left. Ext3 may be better than ext2--most distros can use ext3, though a few such as Myah OS require ext2. I would suggest making two ext3 partitions (or three for more flexibility) in this remaining space.
You already know how to do a Puppy frugal install. It sounds as though when presented with save options [the first time you exit from Puppy], you chose to save to the hard drive partition. Most people choose to save to a file, which creates pup_save.2fs. Why? Because then you can simply make a copy of your pup_save.2fs file and you have done a total backup of all your settings and installs. I always keep four progressive backups of pup_save.2fs. You may want to consider trying this. I believe the option to save to file (pup_save.2fs) is the first choice offered on your initial shutdown.
Of course you can modify the above suggestions to your own needs. Hope this helps.
Preparing a HD for a frugal install
cagliostro
I anticipate that when I get my head totally round all that is offered XPs registration period will have elapsed and I will be forced to totally work within Puppy. At the moment I am totally unable to get M$ to register their software nor can I connect with the internet as their device manager will not register the ethernet card that I am currently working from. Is it any wonder that I want to shift over to Puppy.
I see your suggestion is to run Perfect Disk in Windows which I anticipate will be a problem as I have still to ensure that everything that matters is correctly copied to DVD. I am under extreme pressure to ensure that every picture that my friend who shares the system with me is accounted for. I am therefore checking and double checking.
As I propose to work with Puppy only I think that I will establish the ext2 as instructed by WhoDo and follow your limit on the swap file. XP will only be used for iTunes if I can't get something to suit my needs.
You have confirmed my thoughts and your remarks on size are extremly helpfull and reassuring. If you can offer an alternative to Perfect Disk it would be appreciated.
I thank you for all your advice and be assured I will put it to good use.
Ian
I anticipate that when I get my head totally round all that is offered XPs registration period will have elapsed and I will be forced to totally work within Puppy. At the moment I am totally unable to get M$ to register their software nor can I connect with the internet as their device manager will not register the ethernet card that I am currently working from. Is it any wonder that I want to shift over to Puppy.
I see your suggestion is to run Perfect Disk in Windows which I anticipate will be a problem as I have still to ensure that everything that matters is correctly copied to DVD. I am under extreme pressure to ensure that every picture that my friend who shares the system with me is accounted for. I am therefore checking and double checking.
As I propose to work with Puppy only I think that I will establish the ext2 as instructed by WhoDo and follow your limit on the swap file. XP will only be used for iTunes if I can't get something to suit my needs.
You have confirmed my thoughts and your remarks on size are extremly helpfull and reassuring. If you can offer an alternative to Perfect Disk it would be appreciated.
I thank you for all your advice and be assured I will put it to good use.
Ian
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Sit Heel Speak
- Posts: 2595
- Joined: Fri 31 Mar 2006, 03:22
- Location: downwind
I was beginning to suspect that GPartEd in the version used in Puppy 2.17 is defective; but what cagliostro reports, above, is a new Microsoft surprise and would explain several failures of GPartEd and PUI which have been reported lately.
@Scoticus:
I suggest that first you copy off all the pictures to a USB key, other drive across the network, burn them to a CD/DVD, or similar--if you haven't already. Then, I suggest that before proceeding you give yourself some insurance, by letting us know the geometry of your disk in the manner prescribed below.
Boot the live-CD, puppy pfix=ram. Open rxvt, drag its top and bottom window borders as high and low as you can, and issue, ignoring any warnings:
and post the output here (you can highlight it all with your mouse, then press Shift-Del, then Shift-Ins it into the forum's reply window), then close down and reboot.
The mkdir commands may give you "already exists" types of errors, that's OK, and one of the mkdir-and-mount combinations won't work. This tells us which one is the swap partition.
Once the geometry is known and the pictures safely copied elsewhere, then (if necessary) wiping, partitioning, and formatting commands can be prescribed with accuracy. Then, (again, if necessary) Windows reinstalled. And, a frugal install of Puppy put on the new ext2 or ext3 partition. It is to be hoped that the subsequent re-installation of Windows (if needed) won't destroy our partitioning handiwork with its own ideas. It will be interesting to see if it does, and if it does then having a picture of the geometry beforehand will enable us to evaluate as well as (hopefully) reverse Windows' pigheadedness.
@Scoticus:
I suggest that first you copy off all the pictures to a USB key, other drive across the network, burn them to a CD/DVD, or similar--if you haven't already. Then, I suggest that before proceeding you give yourself some insurance, by letting us know the geometry of your disk in the manner prescribed below.
Boot the live-CD, puppy pfix=ram. Open rxvt, drag its top and bottom window borders as high and low as you can, and issue, ignoring any warnings:
Code: Select all
fdisk /dev/hda
p
q
mkdir /mnt/hda1
mount -t auto /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1
mkdir /mnt/hda2
mount -t auto /dev/hda2 /mnt/hda2
mkdir /mnt/hda3
mount -t auto /dev/hda3 /mnt/hda3
df
free
hdparm /dev/hdaThe mkdir commands may give you "already exists" types of errors, that's OK, and one of the mkdir-and-mount combinations won't work. This tells us which one is the swap partition.
Once the geometry is known and the pictures safely copied elsewhere, then (if necessary) wiping, partitioning, and formatting commands can be prescribed with accuracy. Then, (again, if necessary) Windows reinstalled. And, a frugal install of Puppy put on the new ext2 or ext3 partition. It is to be hoped that the subsequent re-installation of Windows (if needed) won't destroy our partitioning handiwork with its own ideas. It will be interesting to see if it does, and if it does then having a picture of the geometry beforehand will enable us to evaluate as well as (hopefully) reverse Windows' pigheadedness.
Preparing a HD for a frugal install
Many thanks SHS
I will look further into what you have asked this evening. I am reasonably sure that my crazy mixed up frugal install is down to my lack of knowledge of Linux. It has been suggested that I incorrectly saved the first boot session to the HD and not to a save file.
You will however note that I am at last getting it into my thick head the principle of ask first and pay attention to the details provided.
FYI my current version is 2.16.1 so GParted may not be the guilty party unless any faults in it have been passed on to 2.17.
I will get back later with the requested information.
Ian
I will look further into what you have asked this evening. I am reasonably sure that my crazy mixed up frugal install is down to my lack of knowledge of Linux. It has been suggested that I incorrectly saved the first boot session to the HD and not to a save file.
You will however note that I am at last getting it into my thick head the principle of ask first and pay attention to the details provided.
FYI my current version is 2.16.1 so GParted may not be the guilty party unless any faults in it have been passed on to 2.17.
I will get back later with the requested information.
Ian
Preparing a HD for a frugal install
SHS
I hope I have got this right as my printer has given up the ghost and I had to copy yourinstruction onto paper before entering it into the consol.
this is what was displayed :
sh-3.00# fdisk /dev/hda
Unable to open /dev/hda
sh-3.00# p
sh: p: command not found
sh-3.00# q
sh: q: command not found
sh-3.00# mkdir /mnt/hda1
mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/hda1': File exists
sh-3.00# mount -t auto /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1
mount: Mounting /dev/hda1 on /mnt/hda1 failed: No such device or address
sh-3.00# mkdir /mnt/hda2
mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/hda2': File exists
sh-3.00# mount -t auto /dev/hda2 /mnt/hda2
mount: Mounting /dev/hda2 on /mnt/hda2 failed: No such device or address
sh-3.00# mkdir /mnt/hda3
mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/hda3': File exists
sh-3.00# mount -t auto /dev/hda3/ mnt/hda3
mount: Mounting /dev/hda3/ on /root/mnt/hda3 failed: No such file or directory
sh-3.00# df
Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/root 1648 904 744 55% /initrd
tmpfs 72784 71860 924 99% /initrd/mnt/tmpfs
/dev/loop0 71808 71808 0 100% /initrd/pup_ro2
tmpfs 1249540 4212 1245328 0% /initrd/pup_rw
unionfs 1321348 76020 1245328 6% /
sh-3.00# free
total used free shared buffers
Mem: 742976 203708 539268 0 31260
Swap: 1020116 0 1020116
Total: 1763092 203708 1559384
sh-3.00# hdparm/dev/hda
sh: hdparm/dev/hda: No such file or directory
sh-3.00#
I trust this assists you and look forward to hearing further from you.
Ian
I hope I have got this right as my printer has given up the ghost and I had to copy yourinstruction onto paper before entering it into the consol.
this is what was displayed :
sh-3.00# fdisk /dev/hda
Unable to open /dev/hda
sh-3.00# p
sh: p: command not found
sh-3.00# q
sh: q: command not found
sh-3.00# mkdir /mnt/hda1
mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/hda1': File exists
sh-3.00# mount -t auto /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1
mount: Mounting /dev/hda1 on /mnt/hda1 failed: No such device or address
sh-3.00# mkdir /mnt/hda2
mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/hda2': File exists
sh-3.00# mount -t auto /dev/hda2 /mnt/hda2
mount: Mounting /dev/hda2 on /mnt/hda2 failed: No such device or address
sh-3.00# mkdir /mnt/hda3
mkdir: cannot create directory `/mnt/hda3': File exists
sh-3.00# mount -t auto /dev/hda3/ mnt/hda3
mount: Mounting /dev/hda3/ on /root/mnt/hda3 failed: No such file or directory
sh-3.00# df
Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/root 1648 904 744 55% /initrd
tmpfs 72784 71860 924 99% /initrd/mnt/tmpfs
/dev/loop0 71808 71808 0 100% /initrd/pup_ro2
tmpfs 1249540 4212 1245328 0% /initrd/pup_rw
unionfs 1321348 76020 1245328 6% /
sh-3.00# free
total used free shared buffers
Mem: 742976 203708 539268 0 31260
Swap: 1020116 0 1020116
Total: 1763092 203708 1559384
sh-3.00# hdparm/dev/hda
sh: hdparm/dev/hda: No such file or directory
sh-3.00#
I trust this assists you and look forward to hearing further from you.
Ian
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jonyo
Re: repartition HD
cagliostro wrote:You definitely need a swap partition. Normally this is twice the size of your RAM. With 750 MB RAM I'm not sure what to say. Twice this is 1.5 GB, but my personal opinion is that a swap of 1.2 GB is plenty in this case.
Not sure but think I read that max swap partition size should be ~ 500 mb. Think it has to do with - hardware issues (hard on it)
& maybe corruption of files.
Last edited by jonyo on Thu 09 Aug 2007, 09:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Sit Heel Speak
- Posts: 2595
- Joined: Fri 31 Mar 2006, 03:22
- Location: downwind
Sorry for the delay, had to spend two days dealing with a minor household emergency.
@jonyo:
I have used swap partitions under Puppy 2.15CE and 2.17-0-final as high as 2GB with no corruption or any other problem. Larger swap than 512MB is not necessary for most people, but if you are using larger swap, then you are probably doing something professional, and so you would either just buy more ram and not need swap, or else accept the shortened lifetime of the swap disk as just a cost of doing business.
@Scoticus:
My first observation is, it appears that you have no primary hard disk. I can speculate several possibilities. Perhaps it is either a very new (e.g. sata hdd controller) or very old or customized (e.g., scsi or pre-pata or cacheing pci eide controller) system. So our next move is to see if we can determine what controller your computer has.
Questions:
1. Have you described your hardware elsewhere, and if so where may I have a look at this description?
2. If not, give me a thumbnail description, i.e. storebought Dell laptop? If so, what model? Homebuilt tower? If so, what mainboard? ...and, post here the outputs (or, if you've already done so elsewhere, point me to them) of
scanpci
and
lsmod
HTH, SHS
@jonyo:
I have used swap partitions under Puppy 2.15CE and 2.17-0-final as high as 2GB with no corruption or any other problem. Larger swap than 512MB is not necessary for most people, but if you are using larger swap, then you are probably doing something professional, and so you would either just buy more ram and not need swap, or else accept the shortened lifetime of the swap disk as just a cost of doing business.
@Scoticus:
My first observation is, it appears that you have no primary hard disk. I can speculate several possibilities. Perhaps it is either a very new (e.g. sata hdd controller) or very old or customized (e.g., scsi or pre-pata or cacheing pci eide controller) system. So our next move is to see if we can determine what controller your computer has.
Questions:
1. Have you described your hardware elsewhere, and if so where may I have a look at this description?
2. If not, give me a thumbnail description, i.e. storebought Dell laptop? If so, what model? Homebuilt tower? If so, what mainboard? ...and, post here the outputs (or, if you've already done so elsewhere, point me to them) of
scanpci
and
lsmod
HTH, SHS
Last edited by Sit Heel Speak on Thu 09 Aug 2007, 18:31, edited 1 time in total.
Preparing a HD for a frugal install
SHS
I hope things are all well at home. No need for apologies.
I am not surprised that you found so little as the install was on a new 80GB HD as my earlier drive totally crashed. There will be little or nothing on the drive as other than installing XP and SP2 the only other thing on the doz side was a photo package. Everything else was ignored as I was unable to connect to the internet via doz as it was not reading the built in ethernet card.
I had set things up with firstly Windows, then ext2, added a 1 Gb swap and have something like 7 GB lying spare.
At the moment if it is easier just to start from the begining then by all means advise how I may format the HD and then set up new partitions. I would want to keep about 15GB for Windows as I may yet have to use it for nothing else but iTunes for my talking books. Thereafter I would accept your guidance on the install either full or frugal. My wish is to have Open Office, Opera and another photo package so not a lot of space required there.
I trust this clarifies matters and look forward to your guidance
Ian
I hope things are all well at home. No need for apologies.
I am not surprised that you found so little as the install was on a new 80GB HD as my earlier drive totally crashed. There will be little or nothing on the drive as other than installing XP and SP2 the only other thing on the doz side was a photo package. Everything else was ignored as I was unable to connect to the internet via doz as it was not reading the built in ethernet card.
I had set things up with firstly Windows, then ext2, added a 1 Gb swap and have something like 7 GB lying spare.
At the moment if it is easier just to start from the begining then by all means advise how I may format the HD and then set up new partitions. I would want to keep about 15GB for Windows as I may yet have to use it for nothing else but iTunes for my talking books. Thereafter I would accept your guidance on the install either full or frugal. My wish is to have Open Office, Opera and another photo package so not a lot of space required there.
I trust this clarifies matters and look forward to your guidance
Ian
[b]Puppy 4.0[/b]; AMD Athlon X2 4400 Processor; 2048MB DDR2 Memory; 320GB HD; nVidia 6100 Graphics; 16x Dual Layer DVD burner; Philips 190X5 monitor,Epson Stylus Photo R265 printer. Logitech LX 710 cordless keyb & mouse
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Sit Heel Speak
- Posts: 2595
- Joined: Fri 31 Mar 2006, 03:22
- Location: downwind
It does no good to try different partitioning schemes until first you make the cabling correct on the hard disk and DVD burner. At present, it is obviously not correct.Scoticus wrote:At the moment if it is easier just to start from the begining then by all means advise how I may format the HD and then set up new partitions.
According to
http://compreviews.about.com/cs/motherb ... Deluxe.htm
the A7N8X features the following:
Silicon Image 3112A Serial ATA RAID Controller
UltraDMA 133/100 Support
...in other words, the board carries two separate disk controllers, a 7-pin sata one (or pair of them) and an older-style 40-pin udma controller (the "133" tells us it can support a udma5 disk drive, with peak transfer rate 133 mbps).
Your present Maxtor 6Y080L0 hard drive is a udma5 device. It takes a special 80-wire flat cable, though the sockets it plugs into on the disk and the mainboard are only 40-pin. The extra 40 wires provide electrical shielding.
The Benq DVD DW1670, according to
http://www.cdfreaks.com/reviews/BenQ-DW ... r-Preview/
is a udma2 device, with peak transfer rate of only 33mbps, only one-quarter that of the Maxtor hard disk. It is in the nature of udma controllers that, if a slower and a faster device are on the same channel, no drive can run any faster than the slowest device. I am not sure that the Maxtor hard drive is even capable of the ancient-style udma2 operation. So this might be killing you--if the BenQ is on the same channel (i.e. same cable) as the Maxtor.
After shutting the machine off and disconnecting the power cord from the mains...
The Maxtor hard drive should be plugged into the udma/ata/ide/eide (all mean the same thing, i.e. "UltraDMA") controller's primary channel 40-pin socket on the mainboard, with the disk drive plugged into the end connector, not the middle one. The cable should be an 80-wire udma5 type. The Maxtor should be jumpered as Master.
The BenQ should be connected to the mainboard via another, its own cable, either 40-wire or 80-wire udma type, with the BenQ on the end connector, jumpered (if it has jumpers) as Slave, and the mainboard-end of the cable plugged into the secondary udma/ata/ide socket on the mainboard.
Usually the blue socket is the primary channel, but you'd better check the manual.
After the two drives are cabled and jumpered correctly, reboot and see if the BIOS setup offers the choice of making the sata controller or the udma/eide/ata one the "boss." The udma/eide/ata controller should be "enabled" or "looked-for first" and the sata controller is "disabled" or the like.
After you have the cabling and the BIOS setup all in accord with the above instructions, try the "fdisk /dev/hda" command again, followed by p and then q. You should see some positive output, and now I want to see the output of the above commands, and you can go back and edit out the earlier useless output above. If fdisk /dev/hda still does not produce some partition info, then the disks still aren't cabled, jumpered, and BIOS-setup'ed correctly.
Until it is all mechanically and "BIOS'ically" copasetic, further monkeying with partitioning schemes etc. will only get you into deeper trouble.
HTH, SHS
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Sit Heel Speak
- Posts: 2595
- Joined: Fri 31 Mar 2006, 03:22
- Location: downwind
PS: if you are absolutely certain that the cabling, jumpering, and BIOS-setup are all correct, but fdisk /dev/hda still does not produce output...then the problem lies deeper. At that point, I would begin to wonder if there isn't something unusual about that nVidia2 chipset. Maybe it does not 100% emulate either the Intel or the AMD udma controllers for which support is compiled into Puppy's kernel. If such is the case, then that would account for the numerous crashes which another Athlon+nVidia2 user, Fiberflinger, has suffered. At that point I would have to spend a little time delving into the kernel config, to see if it is possible to compile Puppy's kernel with the needed support included. But, check your cabling first.
Dang, I wish I had one of these machines to test.
Dang, I wish I had one of these machines to test.
Just as interest, I have a Nvidia chipset motherboard A7N8X-X Asus, here is the layout that it likes.
For the equipment I have:
Primary master has the 80GiB WDC hdd = hda
Primary slave is DVD/RW Sony = hdb
Secondary master is CDrom/RW Sony = hdc
Partitioning of the harddrive is by GParted as follows:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hda1 Boot Primary W95 FAT32 (LBA) 33559.15 Win2000
hda2 Extended
hda5 Logical Linux ReiserFS 15068.72 Puppy 2.17 full install
hda6 Logical Linux ReiserFS 15068.72 Puppy 2.17 frugal install
hda3 Primary Linux ext3 15142.75 PC Linux OS 2007
hda4 Primary Linux swap / Solaris 1184.45
As you see Window 2000 is installed on fat32 (no problems with NTFS).
Puppy frugal install would install to Windows partition or as you see. I prefer not having it on Windows because it slows the defragging.
The grub being used is from PC linux OS. Our other main computer has XP sp2 running on fat32 also.
Good Luck, Kal
For the equipment I have:
Primary master has the 80GiB WDC hdd = hda
Primary slave is DVD/RW Sony = hdb
Secondary master is CDrom/RW Sony = hdc
Partitioning of the harddrive is by GParted as follows:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hda1 Boot Primary W95 FAT32 (LBA) 33559.15 Win2000
hda2 Extended
hda5 Logical Linux ReiserFS 15068.72 Puppy 2.17 full install
hda6 Logical Linux ReiserFS 15068.72 Puppy 2.17 frugal install
hda3 Primary Linux ext3 15142.75 PC Linux OS 2007
hda4 Primary Linux swap / Solaris 1184.45
As you see Window 2000 is installed on fat32 (no problems with NTFS).
Puppy frugal install would install to Windows partition or as you see. I prefer not having it on Windows because it slows the defragging.
The grub being used is from PC linux OS. Our other main computer has XP sp2 running on fat32 also.
Good Luck, Kal
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Sit Heel Speak
- Posts: 2595
- Joined: Fri 31 Mar 2006, 03:22
- Location: downwind
@Kal:
That is interesting, and good news, as it supports the premise that there is nothing about the A7N8X's udma controller that is intrinsically hostile to Puppy. I presume, then, that your primary slave Sony DVD/RW drive is udma4 or 5 like your WDC hard disk, unlike Scoticus's BenQ which is described at the cited page as udma2?
That is interesting, and good news, as it supports the premise that there is nothing about the A7N8X's udma controller that is intrinsically hostile to Puppy. I presume, then, that your primary slave Sony DVD/RW drive is udma4 or 5 like your WDC hard disk, unlike Scoticus's BenQ which is described at the cited page as udma2?
Preparing a HD for a frugal install
SHS and Kal
Many thanks for your assistance. From what you say SHS it looks like I have been sold (I will resist the temptation to pun) something totally unsuitable as a DVD. I bought the DVD to work with multisession disks but found that having such a large capacity slowed down the boot up something horrible. It was nearly as slow as M$. This prompted the frugal install which is far superior in booting times.
Kal in his comment shows that he has both CD and DVD drives from Sony. In my machine I have a Sony CD which was supplied as original equip.
Lets say that I change my BIOS to boot from the CD would I be right in thinking that this would then set things up in harmony.
Your remark about the HD connection strikes a chord as from memory when I attempted to connect the cable to the HD the end connector was not properly joining up, there was a marked resistance. I found that the connection in the centre of the connecting cable fitted without any difficulty and used that. I am totally unsure how the DVD is connected up but if it ripping out would improve matters then out it goes.
I am totally at a loss on how the kit works. My best attempts have been in adding RAM and installing this HD (hopefully right) are my only efforts. I had someone come in to add the DVD and on talking to him found that he knew nothing about Linux. Passing his shop lately it appears that he has either gone burst or fled the country as I would from what you are advising like to hang him by his appendages.
I await your comments
Ian
Many thanks for your assistance. From what you say SHS it looks like I have been sold (I will resist the temptation to pun) something totally unsuitable as a DVD. I bought the DVD to work with multisession disks but found that having such a large capacity slowed down the boot up something horrible. It was nearly as slow as M$. This prompted the frugal install which is far superior in booting times.
Kal in his comment shows that he has both CD and DVD drives from Sony. In my machine I have a Sony CD which was supplied as original equip.
Lets say that I change my BIOS to boot from the CD would I be right in thinking that this would then set things up in harmony.
Your remark about the HD connection strikes a chord as from memory when I attempted to connect the cable to the HD the end connector was not properly joining up, there was a marked resistance. I found that the connection in the centre of the connecting cable fitted without any difficulty and used that. I am totally unsure how the DVD is connected up but if it ripping out would improve matters then out it goes.
I am totally at a loss on how the kit works. My best attempts have been in adding RAM and installing this HD (hopefully right) are my only efforts. I had someone come in to add the DVD and on talking to him found that he knew nothing about Linux. Passing his shop lately it appears that he has either gone burst or fled the country as I would from what you are advising like to hang him by his appendages.
I await your comments
Ian
-
Sit Heel Speak
- Posts: 2595
- Joined: Fri 31 Mar 2006, 03:22
- Location: downwind
@Scoticus:
I think the basic issue here, is that you, like millions of others, have been misled by that "Windows-compatible" logo on the BenQ DVD drive's package. Logically, you would think this logo means that you can just plug the drive in at any free connector on the mainboard's udma controller's cables, and Windows will correctly auto-sense the entire constellation of drives and it will all, including the new device, Just Work(tm) in smooth harmony. But in reality, that ain't so, and I am beginning to suspect it ain't so for Linux either.
The immediate issue is not "capacity," rather it is "throughput." I deduce that Windows is sensing that the bootup is happening slower than originally (owing to the Maxtor being forcibly operated at the slower throughput level of the BenQ, by being harnessed to the same channel), and therefore Windows is deducing that you have altered the equipment from original configuration--by which Windows infers, that you have moved the OS onto a different machine. Therefore authentication will fail. It sounds like this is what is happening with your Windows install.
With your Puppy install, I would venture to speculate that the kernel is sensing the disk drive's identity correctly, but is noticing the mismatch between the Maxtor's rated speed and actual and therefore is prudently refusing to mount it. Basically, Windows draws from this situation the inference that you are a thief, whereas Linux draws the inference that you are under attack by a hacker.
So...your goal then is to rearrange the CD and DVD such that a udma4 or 5 or 6 optical drive is paired on the same channel as the Maxtor,...or don't pair the Maxtor with any other drive at all, so that the Maxtor regains the ability to operate at or near full rated speed.
As far as whether making the Sony boot first will solve things, this question is not answerable without knowing both the Sony's model number (we can't assume that your Sony has the identical throughput as Kal's) and where it will be placed on the udma chain, in the overall constellation of drives.
In general, to straighten out the mess when someone attempts to add a drive but lacks cabling/jumpering/throughput wisdom, requires these seven data morsels for each and every drive on the system:
1. The drive's make-and-model, which conveys its throughput rating (udma 2, 4, 5, or 6, equivalent to 33, 66, 100, or 133 mbps peak).
2. Is it on the primary or secondary udma channel.
3. Is it on an 80-wire or a 40-wire cable. Essentially: if you can count them, 20 per side, it's 40-wire. If too fine to count, 80. udma4/5/6 drives need an 80-wire or else data dropouts happen. You can use an 80-wire on a udma2 device OK, though a 40-wire will do, but you must be mindful of the fact that between the two cable types the master and slave polarities are reversed, as described next.
4. Is it cabled as master or slave, i.e. is it on the cable's end connector or the middle one. On 80-wire end is master, on 40-wire end is slave.
5. What is/are its onboard jumper setting(s), i.e. is the drive jumpered as master, slave, or cable-select. Only the primary channel's master-position-on-the-cable (=hda=system master) drive should be jumpered master, all others slave. Cable-select is an attempt to make udma drives behave like scsi drives, not applicable in a typical home situation.
6. What drive (or non-drive device) (if any) is on the other connector on the cable.
7. What BIOS setup settings have been selected for this drive.
Once you have this information, solving the tangle is simply a matter of matching-up the throughputs of each channel's drives if more than one so that no drive is forced to run slower than its rated throughput, and making sure that you aren't trying to run a udma4-or-higher drive using only a 40-wire cable, and getting the masters and the slaves all sorted out as to cable position, and setting the jumpers on all drives except one to be slaves.
If you restore the machine to as close as you can to its as-new configuration (i.e. Maxtor cabled and jumpered as primary master, Sony CD cabled and jumpered however it was when you bought the machine), then your Windows authentication issues might go away, though I'm not sure; I don't know if Windows compares against the original-install hardware configuration or the last-attempted. And your Linux fdisk /dev/hda may now produce the expected output, in which case we can proceed.
If the Sony was originally cabled-and-jumpered as the slave on the primary udma channel, then putting it back there and simply adding the BenQ at the master (end connector, on an 80-wire cable; middle connector, on a 40-wire) position on the secondary channel (but, the BenQ should be jumpered as slave) may be all you need to do, in order to get both Windows and Puppy going well again and have the BenQ working correctly as well--no need to go back and chew the salesman a new one. He simply presumed that you were sufficiently informed. Now, you are.
HTH,
SHS
I think the basic issue here, is that you, like millions of others, have been misled by that "Windows-compatible" logo on the BenQ DVD drive's package. Logically, you would think this logo means that you can just plug the drive in at any free connector on the mainboard's udma controller's cables, and Windows will correctly auto-sense the entire constellation of drives and it will all, including the new device, Just Work(tm) in smooth harmony. But in reality, that ain't so, and I am beginning to suspect it ain't so for Linux either.
The immediate issue is not "capacity," rather it is "throughput." I deduce that Windows is sensing that the bootup is happening slower than originally (owing to the Maxtor being forcibly operated at the slower throughput level of the BenQ, by being harnessed to the same channel), and therefore Windows is deducing that you have altered the equipment from original configuration--by which Windows infers, that you have moved the OS onto a different machine. Therefore authentication will fail. It sounds like this is what is happening with your Windows install.
With your Puppy install, I would venture to speculate that the kernel is sensing the disk drive's identity correctly, but is noticing the mismatch between the Maxtor's rated speed and actual and therefore is prudently refusing to mount it. Basically, Windows draws from this situation the inference that you are a thief, whereas Linux draws the inference that you are under attack by a hacker.
So...your goal then is to rearrange the CD and DVD such that a udma4 or 5 or 6 optical drive is paired on the same channel as the Maxtor,...or don't pair the Maxtor with any other drive at all, so that the Maxtor regains the ability to operate at or near full rated speed.
As far as whether making the Sony boot first will solve things, this question is not answerable without knowing both the Sony's model number (we can't assume that your Sony has the identical throughput as Kal's) and where it will be placed on the udma chain, in the overall constellation of drives.
In general, to straighten out the mess when someone attempts to add a drive but lacks cabling/jumpering/throughput wisdom, requires these seven data morsels for each and every drive on the system:
1. The drive's make-and-model, which conveys its throughput rating (udma 2, 4, 5, or 6, equivalent to 33, 66, 100, or 133 mbps peak).
2. Is it on the primary or secondary udma channel.
3. Is it on an 80-wire or a 40-wire cable. Essentially: if you can count them, 20 per side, it's 40-wire. If too fine to count, 80. udma4/5/6 drives need an 80-wire or else data dropouts happen. You can use an 80-wire on a udma2 device OK, though a 40-wire will do, but you must be mindful of the fact that between the two cable types the master and slave polarities are reversed, as described next.
4. Is it cabled as master or slave, i.e. is it on the cable's end connector or the middle one. On 80-wire end is master, on 40-wire end is slave.
5. What is/are its onboard jumper setting(s), i.e. is the drive jumpered as master, slave, or cable-select. Only the primary channel's master-position-on-the-cable (=hda=system master) drive should be jumpered master, all others slave. Cable-select is an attempt to make udma drives behave like scsi drives, not applicable in a typical home situation.
6. What drive (or non-drive device) (if any) is on the other connector on the cable.
7. What BIOS setup settings have been selected for this drive.
Once you have this information, solving the tangle is simply a matter of matching-up the throughputs of each channel's drives if more than one so that no drive is forced to run slower than its rated throughput, and making sure that you aren't trying to run a udma4-or-higher drive using only a 40-wire cable, and getting the masters and the slaves all sorted out as to cable position, and setting the jumpers on all drives except one to be slaves.
If you restore the machine to as close as you can to its as-new configuration (i.e. Maxtor cabled and jumpered as primary master, Sony CD cabled and jumpered however it was when you bought the machine), then your Windows authentication issues might go away, though I'm not sure; I don't know if Windows compares against the original-install hardware configuration or the last-attempted. And your Linux fdisk /dev/hda may now produce the expected output, in which case we can proceed.
If the Sony was originally cabled-and-jumpered as the slave on the primary udma channel, then putting it back there and simply adding the BenQ at the master (end connector, on an 80-wire cable; middle connector, on a 40-wire) position on the secondary channel (but, the BenQ should be jumpered as slave) may be all you need to do, in order to get both Windows and Puppy going well again and have the BenQ working correctly as well--no need to go back and chew the salesman a new one. He simply presumed that you were sufficiently informed. Now, you are.
HTH,
SHS
Preparing a HD for a frugal install
SHS
You have both enlightened and scared the life out of me with your explanation and probable solution. Frankly I do not know enough about the inner workings of a system and am scared to tinker too much in case it all ends up in tears.
I have been promised a redundant laptop with XP installed on it and I think I will wait on it arriving and then see what I can do with the PC. At the worst I shall still be able to keep on going with the laptop. As a last resort I was looking at buying a new system which would have an AMD Sempron 3500 AM2 64 bit processor and 1GB DDR2 667 MHz RAM. This would come without any OS and I would imagine that I could just do a frugal install straight from my DVD. How suitable would that be ?
Looks like I will be looking for a Dummies book on building your own computer to at least give me some boost to my confidence in attempting to do what you instruct.
My sincere thanks for all your assistance
Ian
You have both enlightened and scared the life out of me with your explanation and probable solution. Frankly I do not know enough about the inner workings of a system and am scared to tinker too much in case it all ends up in tears.
I have been promised a redundant laptop with XP installed on it and I think I will wait on it arriving and then see what I can do with the PC. At the worst I shall still be able to keep on going with the laptop. As a last resort I was looking at buying a new system which would have an AMD Sempron 3500 AM2 64 bit processor and 1GB DDR2 667 MHz RAM. This would come without any OS and I would imagine that I could just do a frugal install straight from my DVD. How suitable would that be ?
Looks like I will be looking for a Dummies book on building your own computer to at least give me some boost to my confidence in attempting to do what you instruct.
My sincere thanks for all your assistance
Ian
Preparing a HD for a frugal install
Sage
Don't put ideas into my head. I am heading in that direction mid Sept and if I can't get this frugal install properly set up drastic action might take place.
I am leaning towards rectifying the screwup made by the alleged expert but need some form of access to the internet even if it is on XP and a free laptop. I am really keen on working with Puppy and from what I have experienced so far I would be happy enough to totally avoid Microsoft if it were possible.
This masochist much prefers the view of all the Munros from the first half dozen metres so there is not too much fear of throwing my self off Schiehallion.
I appreciate your encouragement and hope that you are not a prophet of doom re XP.
Ian
Don't put ideas into my head. I am heading in that direction mid Sept and if I can't get this frugal install properly set up drastic action might take place.
I am leaning towards rectifying the screwup made by the alleged expert but need some form of access to the internet even if it is on XP and a free laptop. I am really keen on working with Puppy and from what I have experienced so far I would be happy enough to totally avoid Microsoft if it were possible.
This masochist much prefers the view of all the Munros from the first half dozen metres so there is not too much fear of throwing my self off Schiehallion.
I appreciate your encouragement and hope that you are not a prophet of doom re XP.
Ian
OK! Ben Hope is a long way north, so here's some suggestions.
Persist with Puppy for the moment but if it doesn't go too well, try Austrumi and DSL. If there's no progress with those (DSL has excellent detection), try Wolvix and PCLinuxOS in that order.
Failing all these, use W98 rather than XP. It is as much rubbish as the rest of the bunch, but there's always the DOS background for repair, no WPA and as long as you tend to memory handling yourself, you'll manage. That means running <256Mb, defrag daily with Diskeeper Lite (the free one) and also running Scandisk on your partition containing the OS - which can be automated. Plus all the malware protections and an old copy of ZoneAlarm (the free one!). Despite what you read elsewhere, W98FE is far more robust than W98SE provided you have all the drivers you need and that includes USB 2.0 if there are big files to transfer!
Persist with Puppy for the moment but if it doesn't go too well, try Austrumi and DSL. If there's no progress with those (DSL has excellent detection), try Wolvix and PCLinuxOS in that order.
Failing all these, use W98 rather than XP. It is as much rubbish as the rest of the bunch, but there's always the DOS background for repair, no WPA and as long as you tend to memory handling yourself, you'll manage. That means running <256Mb, defrag daily with Diskeeper Lite (the free one) and also running Scandisk on your partition containing the OS - which can be automated. Plus all the malware protections and an old copy of ZoneAlarm (the free one!). Despite what you read elsewhere, W98FE is far more robust than W98SE provided you have all the drivers you need and that includes USB 2.0 if there are big files to transfer!