(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Posted: **Sat 13 Oct 2007, 18:29**

During the two week window starting Nov 12th, I am considering the purchase of two OLPC laptops "One for me and one to donate". Does anyone know if PuppyOS can be used on these beasts? If so, will it have to run from flash attached via a USB interface or can it be installed to the flash soldered on the OLPC motherboard? The OLPC laptop Linux OS is written mostly in Python and installs and runs from raw flash, IE... uses a JFFS2 file system with "Wearleveling performed in software??" At one time, I know Puppy OS was considered to be used on the OLPC laptop.

www.olpc.com

The technology implemented into the OLPC laptops is fantastic.

Regards
Ron

Posted: **Sat 13 Oct 2007, 22:08**

Puppy runs well on the decTOP, which is the lower speed version of the current OLPC laptop's processor. In fact, the decTOP's processor (GX466) used to be the OLPC processor, until they decided that the "sugar" OS ran too slowly in it, so they upgraded to LX700.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=19223

Posted: **Tue 16 Oct 2007, 15:06**

Forgot to add this link to my original post.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8538296189

Enjoy
Ron

Posted: **Wed 17 Oct 2007, 01:00**

The OLPC XO-1 runs a modified version of Fedora 7, but it is booted using OpenFirmware (OFW). They previously used LinuxBIOS, but switched to OFW when it became open source. So the boot sequence is not a conventional one in X86 terms. They say that one reason for using OFW is to get a fast boot.
I would have major doubts about being able to get Puppy booted on the machine without quite a bit of effort - unless OFW allows alternative boot such as from USB - ???. The machine does have the ability to re-flash the firmware and load a new image to the flash memory, I don't know how difficult it would be to subvert that process. Pictures of the internals look as though the flash memory module is soldered to the motherboard, so no exchange or upgrade.
Just FYI - the link in the previous post shows a presentation by Ivan Kristic. Ivan was the person who gave Barry K. a very negative response when he suggested that Puppy would give them a head start in terms of a software platform.

Posted: **Wed 17 Oct 2007, 17:05**

Blackadder

Thanks for the FYI. I probably will not buy the OLPC if the bios will not allow booting of PuppyOS via USB attached devices and/or allow network booting. I am sure there is a lot of politics involved with the OLPC initiative and Redhat and Google are surely lobbying to get there name in the limelight.

Thanks Again
Regards
Ron

BlackAdder wrote:The OLPC XO-1 runs a modified version of Fedora 7, but it is booted using OpenFirmware (OFW). They previously used LinuxBIOS, but switched to OFW when it became open source. So the boot sequence is not a conventional one in X86 terms. They say that one reason for using OFW is to get a fast boot.
I would have major doubts about being able to get Puppy booted on the machine without quite a bit of effort - unless OFW allows alternative boot such as from USB - ???. The machine does have the ability to re-flash the firmware and load a new image to the flash memory, I don't know how difficult it would be to subvert that process. Pictures of the internals look as though the flash memory module is soldered to the motherboard, so no exchange or upgrade.
Just FYI - the link in the previous post shows a presentation by Ivan Kristic. Ivan was the person who gave Barry K. a very negative response when he suggested that Puppy would give them a head start in terms of a software platform.

Posted: **Fri 02 Nov 2007, 14:48**

There may be politics . . .
but . . .

Kids + Linux + laptops

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Khairat_Chronicle

Posted: **Sun 04 Nov 2007, 05:03**

Lobster wrote:There may be politics . . .
but . . .

Kids + Linux + laptops

That's the important thing IMO. I haven't checked if these machines are only available from the US during that two-for-one purchase, but I'd be sorely tempted to buy into that scheme if the possibility is currently international.

I'd have to sacrifice buying any more whisky (for a few days) though to appease the wife's annoyance at my spending money for something I don't need.

Posted: **Sun 04 Nov 2007, 08:53**

I'm curious about BlackAdder's point regarding the OpenFirmware boot code. If you can't point it at whatever you want to boot, then it doesn't seem very open to me!

But I thought that one point of OpenFirmware, was that it was a forth interpreter, so that at bootup you could access the interpreter, and get it to boot whatever. But I certainly wouldn't be getting one until I was sure I could boot what I wanted.

Posted: **Sun 04 Nov 2007, 10:56**

There have been several items on the Internet about the OLPC decision to move to Open Firmware(OFW), which was made about a year ago. Interested folks could have a look at the OLPC OFW FAQ (no more acronyms for the moment).
The FAQ says that you should be able to boot from a USB device, but that seems to be an alternative to using the internal flash, and OFW looks for particular files on the device. It may be possible to get Puppy booted from USB by obeying the OFW rules.
You can find the FAQ here.
There is an earlier posting by Jim Gettys of OLPC that discusses the reasoning for adopting OFW and comments about the Open-ness of OFW here.
Writing Forth code might not be for the faint-hearted since it uses Reverse Polish notation and, by definition, can get very close to the machine hardware.

Posted: **Sun 04 Nov 2007, 18:07**

It's very likely that you will be able to boot Puppy on it, see quote below from the OFW FAQ:

There are three configuration variables that control the booting process:

* boot-device - This is the device and file path to the kernel. Example: disk:\boot\vmlinuz or nand:\boot\vmlinuz
* boot-file - This is the kernel command line (the unfortunate name is historical) Example: quiet root=sda1 rootfstype=ext3
* ramdisk - This is the device and file path to the initrd. If null, no initrd will be loaded. Example: disk:\boot\initrd.img

Their default values are suitable for booting from a USB storage device. As described above, boot-configure will set the values of these variables to baseline values typical for the first device that has either /boot/olpc-boot.fth or /boot/vmlinuz , trying USB first and then NAND FLASH.

You can set values manually with:

setenv boot-device nand:\boot\vmlinuz
setenv boot-file ro quiet root=mtd0 rootfstype=jffs2
setenv ramdisk

Should some machine coding be needed, then Barry should be able to handle it, as he has written a book on microprocessor control. Also, I wonder if you could will in your purchase that OLPC sends the other machine to Barry.

Posted: **Sun 04 Nov 2007, 21:15**

Raffy,
I agree that Puppy should/could/may boot and run on the XO-1. But it would be limited in what it could do and would need some coding effort to use some of the XO's fancy features. For instance, the mesh networking support, suspend/resume/standby etc. depend on XO-unique drivers and routines. I also think display style, resolution and orientation may need software control.
Cannot help wondering if Barry's "underdog" trick would work to get some of that stuff active, but never having even seen an XO-1 we can only speculate.
Over on the OLPC lists they are only now close to deciding which build of the OS will go onto the production machines. I wonder if the Give One Get One (G1G1) folks will get their machines by Xmas.

Posted: **Thu 27 Dec 2007, 07:19**

I am new somewhat new to linux and I recently received a OLPC laptop for x-mas. I have used linux before and have put it one an old computer and an Ipod and now I wish to put it on this OLPC laptop. I think it would be neat to have Puppy linux on the little laptop because face it this is designed ranges 10 and under... not that I am old but still haha

PLEASE make a version that will work on the little computers. I believe the Puppy community will greatly appreciate and enjoy it.

Thank you,
Jake

Posted: **Thu 27 Dec 2007, 11:12**

It's designed for kids, so perhaps mimic one.

When demonstrating the live XO live CD today, I noticed that it can use multiple desktops (activities), but they get shown in the frontpage wheel. When moving the mouse to the borders, the control icons at the borders would show.

Pretty neat design, I should say. Maybe it's the processor horsepower that is needed for the user to enjoy its features.

Posted: **Thu 27 Dec 2007, 20:05**

The OLPC project encourages 'us' to make it do cool stuff. They're not going to be offended if we start hacking the thing. I think they're even a little pleased to see so many get into the hands of real enthusiasts...

To use the OpenFirmWare for dual-boot requires a developer key. It's an automated process with a short time delay. They give them to everybody that requests one.

The built-in upgrade process allows the owner to install Debian as a dual-boot OS. This seems to be a proof-of-concept to explain how it all works. I've tried booting the thing from a USB stick (fully supported by the h/w, btw) with the Puppy 3.01 files and it doesn't work. Then I tried again with the OLPC stable kernel and it dies trying to mount the SquashFS.

So, I have a copy of Fedora installed on a spare machine and I'm going to patch the OLPC kernel (with all their h/w support patches) with the SquashFS files.

Rick

Posted: **Sun 30 Dec 2007, 02:52**

raffy wrote:It's designed for kids, so perhaps mimic one.

When demonstrating the live XO live CD today, I noticed that it can use multiple desktops (activities), but they get shown in the frontpage wheel. When moving the mouse to the borders, the control icons at the borders would show.

Pretty neat design, I should say. Maybe it's the processor horsepower that is needed for the user to enjoy its features.

I think the OLPC software really stinks. It seems a classic example of interface designers wanting to do something new, and throwing out all the lessons learned about gui design over the last 20 years.

I bought three, one for each of my kids for Christmas. They looked at the OLPC interface like it was something from Mars. After playing with it for a while (having to reboot it three times in an hour due to freezups), they all decided that it just wasn't worth the trouble.

I also had two spare eeePCs laying around, so I gave the two eldest the choice between the OLPC or the eeePC. The eee won hands down. It wasn't even close. Now the youngest is feeling cheated. I think that the only option to rescue the holiday for her is to get Puppy working on her OLPC. The first person to get it ported will have my, and my daughter's, undying gratitude.

--MDD

Posted: **Sun 30 Dec 2007, 03:07**

mdd wrote:
raffy wrote:It's designed for kids, so perhaps mimic one.

When demonstrating the live XO live CD today, I noticed that it can use multiple desktops (activities), but they get shown in the frontpage wheel. When moving the mouse to the borders, the control icons at the borders would show.

Pretty neat design, I should say. Maybe it's the processor horsepower that is needed for the user to enjoy its features.
I think the OLPC software really stinks. It seems a classic example of interface designers wanting to do something new, and throwing out all the lessons learned about gui design over the last 20 years.

I bought three, one for each of my kids for Christmas. They looked at the OLPC interface like it was something from Mars. After playing with it for a while (having to reboot it three times in an hour due to freezups), they all decided that it just wasn't worth the trouble.

I also had two spare eeePCs laying around, so I gave the two eldest the choice between the OLPC or the eeePC. The eee won hands down. It wasn't even close. Now the youngest is feeling cheated. I think that the only option to rescue the holiday for her is to get Puppy working on her OLPC. The first person to get it ported will have my, and my daughter's, undying gratitude.

--MDD

I'd be happy to send an OLPC to Barry, if that would help.

--MDD

Posted: **Sun 30 Dec 2007, 04:14**

You just posted what I was thinking.

Barry Kauler Address: PO Box 359 Perenjori WA 6620 Australia

He is currently building Dingo (Puppy4) and including both the Intel Classmate and eeePC in the detection routine. If he gets an OPLC unit, that will be an excellent addition to his laboratory. See http://puppylinux.com/blog/

Now, when it comes to doing mesh networking, OLPC will then do mesh with the Classmate PCs (?). Only in the Puppy kennel...

ADDITIONS:

Puppy 2.14R with updated Xorg that can handle the AMD Geode CS5536 chip: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=24574

My post about the possibility of booting Puppy in the OLPC:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 434#151434

My fun experiment for the eee PC (WPA and microphone problems are still being solved at this moment): http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=24881

Posted: **Sun 30 Dec 2007, 06:01**

If you send one to Barry, that would leave you with a couple to experiment with. And you might like to try this until the arrival of a Puppy version that uses all the capability of the XO.

While waiting for the servers to finish churning last night, I put
together an UNOFFICIAL Debian "etch" 4.0 + XFCE4 build for the XO. It
includes Firefox, Thunderbird, a suite of development tools (python,
git, gcc, gdb, flex, bison, automake, autoconf, libtool), a music
player (XMMS), IRC client (irssi) and a graphical wireless AP
selector. The entire build takes up 250MB of flash. I optimized the
Firefox window layout to give you maximum screen estate, and
configured a number of keyboard shortcuts. Feedback welcome. Standard
disclaimer applies.

How to install
--------------

1. download the following two files to a USB stick:

<http://radian.org/~krstic/etch-xfce.tar>
<http://radian.org/~krstic/etch-xfce-home.tar>

2. get a developer key, disable security
3. boot the normal build, switch to tty1 (ctrl+alt+f1), become root
4. mount the USB key if not automounted; let's say it's mounted at /
media/KEY
4. # cd /versions/pristine; tar xf /media/KEY/etch-xfce.tar
5. # cd /home/olpc; tar xf /media/KEY/etch-xfce-home.tar
6. # cp -rl /versions/pristine/debian /versions/run/debian
7. # /usr/sbin/setattr -R --iunlink /versions/run/debian
8. # ln -s /versions/pristine/debian /versions/boot/alt
9. # sync
10. Power off the XO. Power on and immediately hold the 'O' game key
(right hand side of the screen.

Boot should now proceed to a blue-background login screen. Log in as
user 'olpc' with password 'olpc' -- that user has sudo access. Give
XFCE a bit of time to load, and voila! Use the keyboard shortcuts
below for some of the most useful options. Note that Firefox can take
up to 15-20s to load after you start it, and you won't see a progress
indication on the screen; that's expected. Also, you don't need to
hold the 'O' key to boot into Debian next time; it'll be the default.
Holding the key will get you back to the regular Sugar build.

Keyboard shortcuts
------------------

- Ctrl+alt+w -- wireless AP picker
- Ctrl+alt+t -- xterm (also alt+`)
- Ctrl+alt+f -- firefox
- Ctrl+alt+b -- thunderbird
- Ctrl+alt+x -- xmms

Enjoy,

--
Ivan Krsti? <krstic@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu> | http://radian.org

Ivan Kristic is a member of the OLPC team, and the above is from a post to the OLPC developer list.

BTW, have you tried mesh networking your XO's? If you connect one to an ethernet router port, they can all access the web via the mesh (according to material about school servers).

A green (and white) with envy BlackAdder.

Posted: **Mon 31 Dec 2007, 00:39**

Hey, have you seen my Classmate page:
http://www.puppylinux.com/baby-laptops/classmate.htm

Posted: **Mon 31 Dec 2007, 03:15**

Seen It. Dugg it . . . awaiting T-shirt

http://digg.com/hardware/Puppy_Frolics_in_the_Classroom

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Puppy on "One Laptop Per Child" OLPC?

Puppy on "One Laptop Per Child" OLPC?

decTOP

Great Google video describing the technology in OLPC

If anyone buys an OLPC laptop, let us know.

the whisky for XO scheme

Open Firmware

figure how to configure

for kids

Re: for kids

Re: for kids

same here

One to Barry - would leave two