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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Can I downgrade Mandrake?
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2005, 05:19    Post_subject:  Can I downgrade Mandrake?  

Has anyone had any experience with this...

I only have so many partitions that I can install onto.
I have 10.2 installed, now want to test 10.1.

I have Mandrake 10.2 installed, and rather than wipe all my files or save them somewhere, I was wondering if it is feasible to "upgrade" to a lower distro. version? Would it really stuff everything up? Totally screw the package manager?
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11121
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2005, 10:33    Post_subject:  

I've installed Mandriva, nee Mandrake, Limited Edition 2005 but I don't use it. I like puppy much better for its simplicity and ease of use. I think I still have an older version of Mandrake lying around. If you want, I'll try reinstalling the older version over the new one and let you know what happens.
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2005, 10:42    Post_subject:  

okay, then try to compile something, see what libraries it tries to use.
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atang1

Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sat 21 May 2005, 06:37    Post_subject:  

Linux philosophy has always been version number dependency. Otherwise 10.2 will not be issued, if it is totally 10.1 backward compatible?

If you have partition separation, different versions will not crossover.

You might have to use two computers to compare 10.2 and 10.1, same as all of us.
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JohnMurga
Site Admin


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Far to the east

PostPosted: Sat 21 May 2005, 14:37    Post_subject:  

Hi,

atang1 wrote:
Linux philosophy has always been version number dependency. Otherwise 10.2 will not be issued, if it is totally 10.1 backward compatible?

If you have partition separation, different versions will not crossover.

You might have to use two computers to compare 10.2 and 10.1, same as all of us.


I have a couple of questions :

A 10.2 could be issued due to bug fixes, version upgrades or improvements - I do not see why it could not be 100% backwards compatible ... Also, I am not sure what you are defining as "Linux philosofy".

I have several versions of Debian on my laptop, they share a common /home partition and I often run 32 bit apps from 64 bit debian by "chroot'ing" into the 32 bit version I have, there seems to be plenty of "cross over" there ... So I am not sure what you mean when you use the term.

Sorry, I am not sure what you meant ...

Cheers
JohnM
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JohnMurga
Site Admin


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Far to the east

PostPosted: Mon 23 May 2005, 19:03    Post_subject:  

Hey

Atang1 are you there ? As I said, I was curious as to what you meant ...

Cheers
JohnM
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robertltux

Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon 23 May 2005, 21:26    Post_subject: Downgrade without a reformat not good idea  

Aside from the problem of the SEP bootsplash mandriva 2005 is better than
10.1 in most areas.

But your problem is going up in versions you have scripts and such to help you going down i would give you 1 in 200 odds of not needing to do a puppyBoot to fix your setup.

Cutting your cars engine and doing a restart at 95mph going down a -47% grade should work also but ......
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon 23 May 2005, 22:42    Post_subject:  

It matters no more, as I wiped the 10.2 installation, put Vector onto the partition.
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atang1

Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue 24 May 2005, 05:23    Post_subject:  

Sorry for the delay in answering, its because I am working on email client plug-in concepts and 2.8.x package concepts.

As we all know Linux kernel version change should not be just a few bug changes, which will be totally backward compatible. But if KDE goes from 3.3 to 3.4, a Linux version change is absolutely necessary. Slackware had Python broken in their changlog. So, a major version number change is important.

If you want slackware, the organization is too samll, and the changelog will reveal to you all the problems of past baggages they carried. Every version change of KDE or Linux kernel, Patrick the dictator of slackware(because he abandoned Gnome) had to work so hard and list the changelogs.

To keep up with Linux developments, I had to study all the changelogs of major distrinutions and their baggages of past sins(backward compatibility). Some time, platforms are the most accute problems whether you use i386 or optimized i686, for instance. Debian with their original goal of platform versatility, will prove to be more adaptable. If they are slow to change codes, all the better to add plug-ins that will be long lasting.
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alainb

Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue 24 May 2005, 05:24    Post_subject: Re: Can I downgrade Mandrake?  

BarryK wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with this...

I only have so many partitions that I can install onto.
I have 10.2 installed, now want to test 10.1.

I have Mandrake 10.2 installed, and rather than wipe all my files or save them somewhere, I was wondering if it is feasible to "upgrade" to a lower distro. version? Would it really stuff everything up? Totally screw the package manager?


Why do yo want to do that? 10.2 is an upgrade of 10.1, probably much stable and debugged!

I tried that kind of things some times ago, with mandrake 8.1/8.2 and 9.0/9.1 and it was very bad :
- it killed all my servers configurations, and was locked with packages incompatibilties and ended by reformatting everything.
i tried the same kind of things with debian stable/testing/unstable and it was really much more robust, i never get locked.... so i m on debian now Wink
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atang1

Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue 24 May 2005, 05:42    Post_subject:  

Mandrake used to destroy Korean(LG brand) cdrom firmware during hdd install, which many of my friends at Motherboards.org found out too late. One of the reasons that we started to recommand Puppy, Mepis, Knoppix and IBM AIX5L for motherboards.org users.

Coming back to Slackware and Puppy, Slackware is still pushing KDE and Konqueror; Puppy is doing Mozilla and hopefully adding many plug-ins to skip desktop, after all. Having said that KDE is my choice if I want to do things offline. Mozilla has many short comings that Konqeror is more advanced. Big K has file manager, and search engine; someday may have combination of both; internet search engine plug-in to file manager socket. Is that synaptic? No, more advanced than synaptic, which has search engine and downloads but no file manager. The advantage is you know the repository and you know your own file manager content; so automatic download of dependency files are easy. If your file manager does not have gcc lib, then all the gcc dependecy modules in the package list will be downloaded; later deleted sfter compilation in the file manager.

Puppy needs webhosting and telephony in email client to leapfrog KDE. Another good application will keep Puppy in demand.
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JohnMurga
Site Admin


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Far to the east

PostPosted: Tue 24 May 2005, 11:48    Post_subject:  

Hey

Quote:
Sorry for the delay in answering, its because I am working on email client plug-in concepts and 2.8.x package concepts.

Sounds interesting ...

Quote:
As we all know Linux kernel version change should not be just a few bug changes, which will be totally backward compatible. But if KDE goes from 3.3 to 3.4, a Linux version change is absolutely necessary. Slackware had Python broken in their changlog. So, a major version number change is important.

Not the way I see it ... KDE 3.3 and KDE 3.4 run just as well on kernel 2.4 ... Actually they even run on BSD and Sun because they are not intrinsically Linux Wink

Quote:
If you want slackware, the organization is too samll, and the changelog will reveal to you all the problems of past baggages they carried. Every version change of KDE or Linux kernel, Patrick the dictator of slackware(because he abandoned Gnome) had to work so hard and list the changelogs.

Nothing wrong with having a small organization ... Puppy is this.
(Not that I like Slackware anyway)

Quote:
To keep up with Linux developments, I had to study all the changelogs of major distrinutions and their baggages of past sins(backward compatibility). Some time, platforms are the most accute problems whether you use i386 or optimized i686, for instance. Debian with their original goal of platform versatility, will prove to be more adaptable. If they are slow to change codes, all the better to add plug-ins that will be long lasting.

I'd say the most important thing isn't to read them, but to understand them once you have read them, otherwise you can cause confusion when you talk about them.

Quote:
Big K has file manager, and search engine; someday may have combination of both; internet search engine plug-in to file manager socket. Is that synaptic? No, more advanced than synaptic, which has search engine and downloads but no file manager. The advantage is you know the repository and you know your own file manager content; so automatic download of dependency files are easy. If your file manager does not have gcc lib, then all the gcc dependecy modules in the package list will be downloaded; later deleted sfter compilation in the file manager.

http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic/
"Synaptic is a graphical package management program for apt. It provides the same features as the apt-get command line utility with a GUI front-end based on Gtk+." Synaptic is nothing more than a package manager front end, there is no crossover with Konkeror ... ANYWAY, I'd be wary of getting to the "explorer" syndrome, where explorer is everything and everything crashes with it ... To a certain extent this is what happened with Nautilus (although at least it is a lot nicer than Konkeror and Explorer).

Quote:
Puppy needs webhosting and telephony in email client to leapfrog KDE. Another good application will keep Puppy in demand.

Puppy is a lean live-cd moving towards being a distro, I don't see it as being in competition with KDE. Puppy already has webhosting and people like Jester and myself have discussed what needs to be done to make this better ... When it comes to telephony I'd say Puppy is right up there thanks to Skype.

I suggest that if you want to make a positive difference to Puppy and really help in its success you should develop your ideas into add-on packages, or maybe even create you own Puppy variant that enbodies your ideals and ideas (like I did).

This way you'll be able to prove your ideas and actually help people at the same time ... It is also difficult to argue with something that just "works".

Cheers
JohnM
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11121
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Tue 24 May 2005, 15:29    Post_subject:  

atang1 wrote:
<>Puppy needs webhosting and telephony in email client to leapfrog KDE. Another good application will keep Puppy in demand.
As long as we're talking about a minimal Puppy with a built-in capacity for customization, with Pupget or by remastering or whatever, rather than bulking Puppy up by putting every application under the sun in it. A la carte is better.

(Try using a smiley once in a while Atang1. It's fun! Smile )
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atang1

Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed 25 May 2005, 04:12    Post_subject:  

Unfortunately, my mission in life is starting a Linux revolution, which is click and run with many plug-ins. So, Posix 2.8.x package same as 2.6.x is being developed into concept before it can be coded. Email client to bypass Skype is so easy, but again, it must have conceptual integrity.

First thing first. Puppy being lean makes plug-ins nice to fatten Puppy without many rewrites or add many bloated application software.

Thanks for your encouragement. But I help many tiny Linux distros to achieve Linux revolution. My time is limited here at Puppy forum, because Puppy needs less encouragement.
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Ian
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 1237
Location: Queensland

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun 2005, 16:23    Post_subject:  

Barry, my experience with Mandrake 10.1 is not good.
I have had no sucess trying to compile programs on it so have given up and gone back to using Libranet using the 2.4 kernel.
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