in-progress: Updating a 2.14+ Puppy with current features

[raffy]

A recent discussion here touched on the 2.16.1 (PuppyLuv) as a good Puppy version, and when recompiled with GTK2.12.x, it can be updated with the features of the new Puppy versions. (Puppy 2.16 also broke new ground by including network-booting, for which I provide a howto for quick deployment.)

While this is being discussed, 2.14R came along, a 2.14 Puppy with many enhancements. This raises the "just works" attribute of Puppy. However, it is also in the light of "just works" that 2.16.1 has been mentioned earlier. And when talking about updating an enhanced version, 2.15CE is also a good candidate. Lastly, if the issue of hardware compatibility because of kernel version would matter, then 2.17.1 may have to be considered. (Version 3.0x is not included as an option, as it will be the source of updates.)

One of these four possible choices could be recompiled with GTK2.12.x to make it "cutting edge", meaning, able to use new libraries and compatible with cutting-edge Slackware packages.

If you go for building an enriched version quickly, you may consider any of the first 4 choices. The last option would mean that the matter of kernel would have to be settled first before enhancements are done/pooled, so this path is not for quick results; it would also imply that you are willing to continue using any of the 2.1x versions in the near future.

[craftybytes]

Yipee.. I've been seriously considering what's involved with 'backporting' the best features and changes to Puppy since v2.16 and above back to v2.15CE - now it looks like others are coming to the party as well..

Have been using v2.15CE almost since it first came out as an 'alpha' - it has been the MOST STABLE puppy so far - IMHO.. I've also tried v2.16 - it's OK - but I still prefer (personal preference) v2.15CE for looks, useability, speed & just plain pizzaz..!!

As 2.15 & 2.16 - used basically the same kernel version - when I do any compiling of source progs to use in Puppy - I actually use the kernel package that came with v2.16 Unleashed (has some extra drivers & packages - not set up in v2.15) - found that doing compiles this way is an 'improvement'..!

One could probably say this was a form of 'backporting' - but now if those of us Puppians can work out suitable methods to incorporate the "best features & changes" of the newer Puppy's back into v2.15CE/v2.16 - this would be the bees knees of projects in the Puppy kennels..!!

I would definitely be willing to contribute where I can to such an enterprise..

- who says that you can't teach an old dog ( puppy v2.15/v2.16 in this instance ) new tricks -

Go for it - please..

crafty.
.

[tronkel]

OK Crafty, Should be back from Prague and in business from Wednesday next week.

I will have a go at compiling GTK+ 2.12 for Puppy 2.16.1 but using the Dingo packages as obtainable from the T2 project as Barry has suggested.

If all goes well, this could be one of the best Puppies yet if the project can be realised. I will do what can.

Any other thoughts about say using XFCE as used in NOP as the window manager or even Kirks KDE sfs?

[WhoDo]

Any other thoughts about say using XFCE as used in NOP as the window manager or even Kirks KDE sfs?

No problem with XFCE, or even E17 with some lovely eye candy. Don't go the KDE route however. It looks great, and works with most puppy stuff, but it doesn't work with some of the KDE basics like Karamba. I can make some of the applets work, but they can't be configured properly. No point in destabilising the puppy you are trying to keep stable, IMHO.

Cheers

[jonyo]

Have been using v2.15CE almost since it first came out as an 'alpha' - it has been the MOST STABLE puppy so far - IMHO.. I've also tried v2.16 - it's OK - but I still prefer (personal preference) v2.15CE for looks, useability, speed & just plain pizzaz..!!

Me too but mainly cos it's the first that i've managed to setup to boot straight into wifi without requiring extra steps or any scenarios. I like the included extras also.

Rock solid too though I don't fiddle with it much. Last I heard, Gparted is messed up in 2.16

[Leachim]

Yes, 2.15CE is really great! It convinced me from the start and I moved all my software development efforts from Windows to Linux since!

I modified and updated a lot of things - including the kernel and xorg.

I also added most standard Unix-commands - replacing the busybox variants shipped with Puppy.

My dream would be a system as flexible as Puppy with a packet manager (and repository!) as easy to use as that of one of the big Linux distributions.

I think that Debian might be the platform of choice to start from but I have absolutely no experiences with Debian Linux.

[alienjeff]

In this apparent abandoning of the Good Ship TS-303, has anyone exhibited the common decency to consult with ecomoney on this change of course for the next community edition?

[Leachim]

I'm currently working on the new X-Wizard. The wizard works with 2.x versions as well as with 3.x versions.

The new save-system I'm planning will be rather different to the current one - so it will mean a big change to any version of Puppy.

[jonyo]

I don't have any prob with whatever anyone else is up to. To each his own type thing.

I just can't keep the pace (tried to though..). For me, nothing wrong with sticking with what I know works & taking it in one step at a time from there. Works A-1. Diff scenario & concerns from others that may have been around & know what they're doing.

No doubt about it that easy as possible, without having to figure stuff out works for me.

Imo, linux in general is ~ outa touch with the win crowd..

[craftybytes]

aj - I personally feel that v2.15CE is THE PUPPY that suits me and my way..

AND I have no probs with any of the later versions since v2.15CE was finally issued - because I just haven't really 'used' them in the way that I "use" v2.15CE..

BUT - I think that there is 'room' in the Puppy kennels for an "enhanced" version of an existing Puppy (v2.15CE/v2.16 - being the ones discussed) which 'could' include most or as many as is possible of the "changes/updates" incorporated in later versions - e.g.. backporting..

There are a LOT of us puppians out there who still do use v2.15CE almost exclusively - for the very reason that over a period of time it has become quite "stable" ( IMHO ) - and because it WAS the result of 'community' participation by a large group of puppy users..

I think that what Barry has done with the later version Puppy's is excellent work especially some of the new 'enhancements' - AND - in some cases - the streamlining of code to make the base Puppy work even better..

I also think that what ecomoney has done with Puppy deserves high praise - AND - when TS 303 does get on to centre stage - I hope that I can contribute to its development however small my involvement may be - I think that both an "enhanced" v2.15CE/v2.16 Puppy can co-exist alongside a newer TS-303CE Puppy happily..

Just my 2 c's of letting of steam..

crafty.
.

[tronkel]

Another thought about the 2.16 window manager.

As WhoDo pointed out, stability is important here. After all thats why this project is being considered in the first place.

I wonder if WhoDos EZPup would work with 2.16

It was always stable on other versions I tried. Could be the best choice of all here, along with keeping the standard JWM.

[ArnaudN]

I have installed EzPup 2.17 on puppy 2.16.1.
It works very well.
I have just lost the ezpup desktop icons from a start to another. Does not really matter.
I have tried ezpup217R2 but I always get a black screen. That's why I switched back to the previous one.

[cb88]

with the inclusion of gradient themes JWM can look almost as good as icewm and will be much more responsive even though icewm is lightweight JWM is MORE lightweight....

can the fixes in 2.14R be included? they should be mostly compatible should they not?

since we are updating to more current features things in 2.15ce that didn't take up any extra space like the message that pops up when you kill X allowing easy restart of X or dropping to the command line....

[ecomoney]

Is there anything written in stone that says that we have to base the next community edition on the bleeding edge version of puppy?

As you know I produce Ecopup, a version of puppy with most of the additional packages I have found that "normal users" (i.e. those from the community around me) find useful, based my research at the community cybercafe. Ive done some work to port this to a 3 series base but from my testing so far the result has been horribly unstable and Ive had to abandon it. If some of the basic bash scripts (such as the startup script that allows multiple users) were backported to 2.15ce, along with the planned new features, I believe the result to the end user would be FAR better for what they need.

Of course Im not as aware of any technical considerations in doing this (slackware compatibility..apparently it can still be done?). I also think a vote might not go amiss. I for one hope that this is possible.

[raffy]

2.14, 2.15 and 2.16 have common kernel, so wherever you find yourself in should be a good starting point.

[ecomoney]

So in this case, any work done on this community edition, if it were based on 2.15, would be compatible with the previous community edition also? This would be progress!!!

[tronkel]

Where are we now?

Ecomoney wrote:

Ive done some work to port this to a 3 series base but from my testing so far the result has been horribly unstable

I also found the Puppy vanilla 3.01 series to be unstable on my old system here. Must say though that the retro version (ie with 2.14, 2.15, 2.16 kernel) is wonderful. No wonder - this is due to the older 2.14/5/6 kernel. 2.16.1 itself works virtually flawlessly on my system also therefore.

It was Barry who suggested revisiting 2.16.1 and doing recompiles for GTK+ 2.*, Abiword and Gnumeric. Says he would be willing to contribute the later scripts from 2.17 and 3 series to the project. I have already had a go at the recompile of GTK+ but no joy so-far. Have used 2.16.1 as the compiling environment. Any suggestions here?

Yes it would indeed be very nice to have Slackware compatibility (or better still Debian?) in the next CE. Maybe possible in 2.16.1 which also has the autoboot-configuration system for sfs modules.

There is also a very promising-looking 2.14 re-visted in progress at the moment.

I'd vote for the following:

either:
1) A 3.01-retro based CE edition
2) A 2.16.1 based CE edition
3) A 2.14 revisited based CE edition (or improved/upgraded 2.15CE)

option 1) above already has Slackware compatibility built-in. It's a very useful feature IMHO

[cb88]

I voted for 2.14R it has hotpup which is cool...

and as for the window manager .... i vote LXDE claims to run usably fast on 266mhz

would make developing the next wNOP trivial.... perhaps even as an sfs!!!!

will upgrading gtk break hotpup? i think it was broken in puppy 3?

[HairyWill]

Am I correct in thinking that 2.14 -> 2.16 broke some ISA support?
What did we gain?
I suppose I should read the release notes and bug threads and answer my own question.

[cb88]

dunno but i think 2.15 was missing the isa alsa drivers.... there was a patch