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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
1.0.5 Release - Lessons learned
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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu 29 Sep 2005, 23:33    Post_subject:  

Sorry if what I said came out the wrong way. I clearly understood that the comment about perl was part of the retrospective.

My point was that it is a topic that requires it's own thread. As a retrospective point was well taken (I even commented on that).

My "let's move it to another thread" was not trying to shut-up people. It came out without thinking on other interpretations it may have. That's what I normally do in live meetings at the office, if the topic starts deviating to another important topic, it is noted as a topic to handle 'off line' or in another meeting. Just to keep the focus.
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PeterSieg

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 361
Location: Germany, 37603

PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 03:04    Post_subject: I agree, rarsa!  

Hi.

Quote:
- There were important differences between 1.0.5rc and 1.0.5. Once an 'rc' release is out of the door, it should only be modified to fix bugs. Contributors should be confident that if they test on the 'rc' it will work on the final release. After all, that's the purpose of an "rc" release.
- No last minute untested modifications should be done for the final release. That goes for all the components that go into the CD Image.


Just wanted to let my feelings out about this... Rarsa, I coudn't find better
words for my exactly the same thoughts about that! Thanks!

I have to say, I was some kind of disappointed, when I read, about the many changes between 1.0.5rc and the final version. As you said (and Barry agreed upon), between a releace candidate and the final version should be mostly only bug fixes. Another thing was that Xcdroast was out and the new graveman it...
I don't know both of them so I am not able to say much about that...
I also disagreed with the statement, that 1.0.5rc is for developers only?!
No, all people who are willing to spend time for testing should be highly welcome!


My suggestion to have a beta/rc version, was to get a very stable
release... I still believe we have archieved a lot here!

So next time, if Barry agrees:

* release an alpha release for first impression/testing/discussion/etc.
* decide on the inside and outlook of next release...
* when Barry thinks he's finished, release a rc/beta for testing/bug fixes
* here we need beta testers for each function like printing, internet,
hdd install, skype, etc. etc. to assure proper testing!
* after app- 2 weeks testing/bug fixes, prepare the final release.
* no changes between rc/final release except for fixing things.
(or only very uncritical additions)

* after final release, go on for next version...
* probably release a patch(pup) for lastest stable release...

I know, that we are not (yet) Suse/Red Hat Smile
So we must find a good way between how we do things now and how
we could do things in the future to meet the goals:
* Keep the fun with making newer and better puppys!
* Make the users happier and the community growing with better and
stable releases of Puppys

PS

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 04:20    Post_subject:  

Actually after seeing that rc was out for a week or two (that right ?), I really disappointed with the bug list for the final release Crying or Very sad . So I guess I'll just stick with a modified 1.0.4 as it does everything I require and I know it's stable.
Was 1.0.5rc acutally 1.0.5 and 1.0.5 actually 1.0.6 ?

Looking forward to a more successful release next time around.
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13642
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 05:01    Post_subject:  

Lobster wrote:
I agree with rarsa - if Perl why not python. .


In fact, there is a difference.
Python is quite new, Perl is extremely old and used by many programs.
I think even building the kernel required Perl until last year.

So Perl is a kind of "integrational part" of linux.

However as most Puppy-tools did not require it yet, there was no need for it.
But if several new things like these Wrappers that was talked about need it, it might be worth a thought to add it to the base-system.

Greets, Mark
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13642
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 05:10    Post_subject:  

I think the Problem with this release of Puppy was:

There was somuch feedback on the RC, that we might have been waiting some more days with the final release.
I actually don't see that too many new features were added.
But the features that required bugfixes were not tested long enough in the bugfixed version.

Also some of the bugs were not reported for the RC, but for the Final.

So I think it is an acceptable workaround to have a kind of "servicepack" as G2 just announced to fix last problems.

Also as lobster described, this release has a new "quality", as it includes several things contributed by external programmers.

Such a concept always tends to be a bit more buggy than a "monolithic" version made by just one person (which has less features then off course).

Conclusion:
Next time, take some more time for testing.
In the final release, inform people, they should look out for a "service pack" after one week that fixes bugs unseen before.

Greets, Mark

Edited_time_total
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PeterSieg

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 361
Location: Germany, 37603

PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 05:12    Post_subject: Puppy 1.0.5 is a GREAT release and an improvement over 1.0.4  

Hi.

Quote:
I really disappointed with the bug list for the final release Crying or Very sad . So I guess I'll just stick with a modified 1.0.4 as it does everything I require and I know it's stable.
Was 1.0.5rc acutally 1.0.5 and 1.0.5 actually 1.0.6 ?


I agree, we could do better with the release of 1.0.5.
But we also should not make the great improvement between 1.0.4
and 1.0.5 so negative. Just remember usr_devx.sfs, were especially
bladehunter hat a very important part on.. Now we can develop in 1.0.5!!


I say:
Quote:
Puppy 1.0.5 is a GREAT release and an improvement over 1.0.4


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PeterSieg

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 361
Location: Germany, 37603

PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 05:21    Post_subject:  

Hi.

Quote:
So Perl is a kind of "integrational part" of linux.

However as most Puppy-tools did not require it yet, there was no need for it.
But if several new things like these Wrappers that was talked about need it, it might be worth a thought to add it to the base-system.


Yep. Is integral part of linux .. but Puppy??
To my knowledge, it is only needed by ndiswrapper for setup of wireless lan.
And once this setup is done, it is not needed for nomal running (?).

And perl is available as soon as you have usr_devx.sfs mounted!

So as long as not more apps are requiring perl, I vote to save that
space for other apps... (sorry John, just my opinion.. got a change to look at jikes Smile ?)

PS

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 05:23    Post_subject:  

Smile Judge Dredd aka John Murga got so upset that I did not understand about Perl - he deleted one of my posts - spammed me with pop ups on IRC and all because I did not understand this . . .

Still he is the Judge. Cool

Lets us see if this post gets him enflamed - ahem - so far we have done without Perl (I did start learning it) seemed to have no standard way of doing anything . . .

So the question is really why does Barry leave Perl out? We have not needed it. John did explain to me - but of course I did not listen (ain't I wikid!) Again I am asking for time to understand and consider this - not being brow beaten into submission . . . maybe I deserve to be brow beaten? I certainly deserve a good boiling with a nice parsley sauce . . .

"We will not be moved . . ."

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 05:34    Post_subject:  

Quote:
"service pack"


Could we please keep the language on a polite level. I for one find that term offensive in the extreme.
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13642
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 07:08    Post_subject:  

ok, how about "ambulance box" (first aid box")

To heal the poor puppy Wink

Mark
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JohnMurga
Site Admin


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 586
Location: Far to the east

PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 10:58    Post_subject:  

Hey

Lobster wrote:
Smile Judge Dredd aka John Murga got so upset that I did not understand about Perl - he deleted one of my posts - spammed me with pop ups on IRC and all because I did not understand this . . .


I deleted the post because I was chatting to you over IRC at the time and you felt the need to question my judgement (note: not my opinion, but my judgement) in public on IRC ... And then you felt it necessary to duplicate the same wording on the forum WHILE I WAS PATIENTLY explaining my point to you.

I felt it was out of line and rather than perpetuate the argument in here I took rarsa's point and limited myself to deleting the post ... I guess it is futile now as we are WAY off topic.

I said I'll shut up, step aside and just remaster a version that actually works, just please stop poking me with a stick Sad

Now I know how Bladehunter always feels.

Cheers
JohnM
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11121
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 11:16    Post_subject:  

Shocked
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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri 30 Sep 2005, 12:35    Post_subject:  

Another suggestion for a future version is:

Release the torrent at the same time as the ISO and provide the torrent address instead of the iso address to distro watch and in any other media anonucement.

The torrent has many advantages from the provider and the downloader points of view, so given the option most people will use the torrent.
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klhrevolutionist


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1124

PostPosted: Sat 01 Oct 2005, 09:23    Post_subject: rain on parade  

I don't want to rain on your parade. But I think it is entirely up
to Barry if he wants to releasa an rc & for how long.
Maybe he has other things to do out in roo land?
It is not only his mistakes but for us the ones heavily involved
in puppy. We should have had a better tracking system, but we had no sytem
rather we all just did what we wanted. If you create a guideline & sytem
and assign parts to people these issues would have been solved.
Remember there is no I in team.

Moving along, why not python? Well for one maybe Barry has a budget.
And maybe he wants puppy to be small in size for those who use dial-up
You can download python right here http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/vectorlinux/veclinux-5.0/packages/cli/DEV/python-2.4-i586-4vl5.tgz
drag 'n' drop /usr into puppy's /usr

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ozboomer


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 01 Oct 2005, 09:48    Post_subject:  

MU wrote:
ok, how about "ambulance box" (first aid box")
To heal the poor puppy Wink

As was mentioned in the wiki at http://www.goosee.com/puppy/wikka/GoodPuppy ... we need to have some sort of 'Patches' reference for each release.

An example of what I'm taking about is on the wiki at http://www.goosee.com/puppy/wikka/JJGDev (top half). This provides a smaller page to access but there are links to relevant infomation for those who are interested. The current page http://www.goosee.com/puppy/wikka/KrazyPuppy doesn't need all the explanation, etc. directly on the page - the detail can be links off this page.

We need to cater for our entire audience - the people who are just interested in getting the latest downloads; those who want to know more background; those who want to know all the details, including development... but all of that detail doesn't have to be content on a 'download' page -- it just needs to be accessible from there.

Also, a 'real' announcements page in the wiki (or forum) is required. This would not be a place for discussion but purely announcements. There are discussion threads in there at present that are not announcements and it just adds to the amount of guff that people have to sift through to get to the 'important' information.
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