KDE 3.5.8 (feb 07, 2008)

[MrArne]

Ho hum...

xwin startkde
not: xwin kdestart

This is SO embarrassing...

Especially since I've been wrestling a bit before with the xwin commands in Dingo - I should know better..!

BUT - I'm so grateful for your quick and devoted responses - you guys must be crazy but I guess that is what sticks linux nerds together, huh? And since I actually (by accident) "click-mounted" the sfs file a couple of days ago, looked at the content and just thought "...this shouldn't be possible..." and so I guessed right, but didn't see the solution. The reason for me to run full install instead of frugal is that I thought I should be a bit stingy with my RAM (though I have 640 MB) and let the processor work a little instead, but my worries for RAM consumption might be excessive, even with KDE running. And the main reason for me to run KDE is the Edutainment apps for my daughter (I don't want to stuff the old Thinkpad T23 with Edubuntu...), for myself I do fine with fluxbox really.
Well, I tried your command Mark, and it didn't turn out so well really, I got a black screen during the copying (which Ieft unattended, so I might have missed some error indicators), KDE won't start (but it was possible to return to JWM).

No harm though, this is an experimental state so I do a reinstall of Fat-free some evening in the week and let you know the outcome as soon it's tested again (it's made in less than 30 min you know - including formatting of the partition...).

I have a theory, that it didn't work since I forgot to unmount the sfs-file in the boot manager before "mounting-by-clicking" and run the command, what do you think?

An interesting thing is maybe to contact legendofthor and ask how he did? I'll think of that one as well.

BRB later in the week

cheers
Ola

[MU]

you might write down here, what you typed.
Sometimes it might be just a small typo error that can cause a lot of harm.
But at first thought, I have no idea, what could have crashed your system.

Ok, as you start from new, you might do it like this:

I would like to know, if your sfs file was mounted.
You wrote, that you added it to the bootmanager.
In the past, there were many errors describing, that this did not work for full installations.
Maybe this was fixed in later versions of Puppy.

So you might look, if you have files like /usr/bin/konqeror.
If yes, it was mounted correctly, and there is no need to copy the files by hand.

Then you might type
konqueror
or
kicker
to see, why KDE does not run.

If it was not mounted, you again might copy the files.
Maybe it is better, not to do it from the running system.
Instead, you might boot from the Live-CD, and then copy the files to the full installation on your harddrive.

Oh, and 640 MB of ram are ok for KDE.
Even 256 MB work fine.

Mark

[legendofthor]

gday
a reply to Mr Arne - glad to help

for a full HD install .... this is how I did it : (sry if I have wrote this a bit simply as I don't know your experience in Linux)

use a fresh install of fat-free 3.01... (which you know how to)

after many failed experiments to successfully mount sfs files through the Bootmanager - I'm pretty sure they're meant for Frugal installs of Puppy.

Well, I decided to do a full install of the sfs file - found the reference somewhere on the forum but this is my step-by step guide to what I did.

Downloaded:
KDE358_082.sfs (I saw somewhere its up to 083?) and
addons-EN_082.sfs (another great MU creation - it does work nicely with this))

Placed them into the Home folder (otherwise known as /)

Created a new folder (right click in ROX file Manager - in New) and called it /data

Now the quirky bit - left click onto KDE358_082.sfs (and it will mount) then do the same thing again (and it will unmount) - the following instructions won't work if you don't do this

opened a Terminal (rxvt) and type this:
# mount -o loop /KDE358_082.sfs /data
then type
# cp -a -v --remove-destination /data/* / >devcopy.txt
this may take a while so grab a cuppa ... then
# umount /data
then
# sync
again this takes a while
then repeat the steps but instead of KDE358_082.sfs type in addons-EN_082.sfs

devcopy.txt will show the install paths of the programs so you may want to change its name to devcopy1.txt for the addons.sfs install (but is not essential)

Delete both .sfs files as you don't need them anymore - all files have been installed on your computer. /data can be deleted as well.

NOTE: With this method you can load any sfs program onto the HD - however there is a drawback - you cannot uninstall this process.
If you do want to delete the install find the installed files in devcopy.txt and delete delete delete files individually.
I have installed, using this method, OxygenOffice, Acroread Gnucash, devx, xfce and other lighter versions of kde

Nearly finished let's move on..
Ctrl-Alt-Backspace to get to Command-Line
then type:
xwin startkde

Enjoy - if you have any problems I will keep an eye on this thread
cheers
Martin

[legendofthor]

addition - with the Terminal entries take care with the spacing - copy/paste is the bect solution or if that dont work copy/paste onto a text editior to find out where the spaces are

A question for MU....
On my older computers I only run JWM but I would like to run the 3.5.8. version of Konqueror. I like its utilities as a File Manager. What's the minimum installation for Konqueror so I can keep the MBytes to a minimum?
cheers
martin

[MU]

I had made a microversion of 3.5.9:
ftp://ks301128.kimsufi.com/Muppy0084/Be ... ns-common/

I don't remember, which additional libs I had added to 3.5.8.
I think 3.5.9 has less libs included, as Muppy 0084 already includes several of them.
So you might try the micro, and type in a consolewindow:
konqueror

If it complains about a missing lib, you might copy it from the 3.5.8 sfs.
Mark

[legendofthor]

gday
thanks MU this may be a little chubby for my older systems -
i've used an older K3b sfs file that I found in my repositiory this afternoon (only 13MBs) and have found the same audio utilites in there as in Konqueror and it works on a K6 64MBs computer and KDE is a little heavy - so i'm using E17 instead.
and i'm looking into a few other gadgets to compensate

but i've downloaded it for a future KDE project

cheers
martin

[MrArne]

Hello again, sometimes time runs faster than ever - and you simply must put some things aside - but here comes my observations from behavior of sfs files and full HD installed puppies. I think legendofthors feedback was very interesting - different ways - same target - same result, and yes, my terminal experience could be better, I am what you might call a "becoming ex-ubuntuer looking for something funnier and seem to have", if you understand...

I would like to know, if your sfs file was mounted.
You wrote, that you added it to the bootmanager.

Yes the sfs file "was mounted", eg. via the boot manager (after the first copy attempts I was unable to determine the status of the sfs mounting since the copy command after all did some copying...). The only disturbance noticed from this before the copy operation was that Xorg was unable to start with the correct typed xwin command. After I gathered your input here I decided to give the "copy-in-running-state" another shot, so I tried again, but that was negative.

An attempt to run Martin's copy command copy while running from CD instead gave the following:

Code: Select all

# cp -ax /mnt/+mnt+hda1+KDE358_301.sfs/* /mnt/hda1/
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/fd0': File exists
cp: cannot create fifo `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/initctl': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/null': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/ppp': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sda1': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sda2': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sda3': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sda4': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sdb1': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sr0': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/zero': File exists

Conclusion from this is that the copy command works fine, but do not try to run it from whitin your environment. The "cannot creat" indicators above shows that the "copy-in-running-state" method crashed quite early.
After this quite successful experiment I was able to start KDE with xwin, but my system was unstable due to the initial messing around.

Now we come to the state where I deleted and reinstalled the entire system again, so first on with a fresh full HD install of Fat-free, then I copied the SFS file to \ in order to be able to test what happens with the boot manager mounting behaviour. And no, the sfs file certainly doesn't mount at all on a full HD install, so with this validation I unmounted it, rebooted and went over to the CD boot again, mounted the sfs by clicking on it, and ran Martins cp command slightly modified, like this:

Code: Select all

# cp -ax /mnt/+mnt+hda1+KDE358_301.sfs/* /mnt/hda1/

This is because I am running OS outside the file structure I am copying to, of course. So, ctrl-alt-backspace and xwin startkde again, and yes, it's working.
A few oddities though; when I tried to reboot from KDE, I wasn't able to, initially I just got a behavior similar to restart of KDE or something, I was forced to do a "kill with HW button" shutdown, after that it reboots and shuts down as expected. Some more oddities; there is a lot of apps and things gathered under "lost and found" in the menu, but the control center for instance, is empty. I feel that this indicates that something isn't quite right, but what the heck, it runs like some-sort-of-fast-I-don't-know-really... I might try a frugal install just to see what happens.

I hope that this give you some feedback Martin, and It feels like this is a sligthtly simpler method than legendofthors described earlier (though I haven't tried it).

[Jim1911]

Mark,

I have been running KDE 3.5.8 successfully under 4.00 through the 4.1 beta, and it works great.

Do you have any plans for running your new muppy's KDE3.5.10 under the new 4.1 release?

I've been unable to get it to work with 4.1, so I used muppy084 SFS combiner and combined this KDE3.5.8 with KDE3.5.10. Surpriseingly, the new sfs worked somewhat and startkde opened KDE3.5.10, although so many programs do not work that I discarded the new sfs.

Thanks for all the great applications,
Jim

[MU]

I will not create a sfs for Puppy4, no time.
But you can use my buildsystem:

build-KDE3510full.tgz
ftp://ks301128.kimsufi.com/Muppy0084/fi ... ildsystem/

Extract it on a Linuxdrive with a lot of space (1-2 GB or so), then run
./extract
./buildsfs

Then boot with the new sfs.
In a consolewindow, run "kicker" or "konqueror", to see what libraries miss.

Mark

[Jim1911]

Thanks, Mark, I'll give it a try.

Jim

[legendofthor]

gday
i've put your KDE 358 on a friends computer; works great but has a quirk which I feel has a simple solution.

If you want to have any sound (including system sounds) you have to run ALSA setup every time the computer is turned on - then everything works fine!

How can I keep the current setting of ALSA for the next time?

Note: sound works fine for my laptop

Cheers
Martin

[legendofthor]

An attempt to run Martin's copy command copy while running from CD instead gave the following:

Code: Select all

# cp -ax /mnt/+mnt+hda1+KDE358_301.sfs/* /mnt/hda1/
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/fd0': File exists
cp: cannot create fifo `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/initctl': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/null': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/ppp': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sda1': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sda2': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sda3': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sda4': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sdb1': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/sr0': File exists
cp: cannot create special file `/mnt/hda1/lib/udev/devices/zero': File exists

Conclusion from this is that the copy command works fine, but do not try to run it from whitin your environment.
The "cannot creat" indicators above shows that the "copy-in-running-state" method crashed quite early.
After this quite successful experiment I was able to start KDE with xwin, but my system was unstable due to the initial messing around.

.

gday Mr Arne
the commands i gave were done in environment not from live CD - I see what your trying to do and the results should be the same -
if you have time i'm curious to see the Terminal output (if you try my method again).

I'm the type of person who will stick to a method that works (I install KDE + addons + OxygenOffice + devx sfs files in about 10 minutes).
Same thing back in to 80's I made my own version of solving the rubix cube and nothing could change my way hehe!
yes i'm Taurus!

BUT!

If i re-install at any time I will try your other sucessful method
maybe also install MU's addons-EN_082.sfs may fix up the menu problems (it does for me)

Cheers
Martin

[magerlab]

just tried kde -min.sfs under puppy 4( boxpup)
almost everything work
but need some libs ( libhal for example)
and have a message that locale (ru) is not supported on x server. in gtk apps i do not get this message. What does it mean?
also where to put locale files for kde

funny but we just have a big topic on kde on forums.puppyrus.org
thak you Mark again for your interesting work

may be this can work also on skinnypup? I'll try...

[MU]

http://ftp.ntua.gr/pub/linux/slackware/ ... ware/kdei/

that is for 3.5.10, but the localization packages should work also in 3.5.8, as the newer versions basically just were bugfixes.

So you would download:
http://ftp.ntua.gr/pub/linux/slackware/ ... arch-1.tgz

For example to /root/test/
Extract it.
this creates:
/root/test/usr/
/root/test/install/

Now copy install/doinst.sh one folder up, so you have:
/root/test/doinst.sh

Execute it, it will create some missing symbolic links:

cd /root/test
bash doinst.sh

Finally copy /root/test/usr to "/".
Now you should have a russian KDE.

--------------------------------------------------------
you also could try Puppys "tgz2pet" to convert it, but I have not tried that yet.

---------------------------------------------------------

Alternatively use my new system to create a SFS of KDE:
ftp://ks301128.kimsufi.com/Muppy0084/fi ... ildsystem/
( build-KDE3510full.tgz )

It includes the full KDE, but not russian.
So place the russian file and the one for koffice in the folder "/tgz", where all other .tar.gz are located.
Then run
./extract
./buildsfs

Then you will have a big russian KDE.sfs.

HAL:
try this one:
http://ftp.ntua.gr/pub/linux/slackware/ ... i486-1.tgz

You can also add it to /tgz, or you install it as I described it with the russian localization above.

Mark

[magerlab]

agian and again! i see the powerof puppy linux and it smart features
only about 80mb and i have good enough kde!!!
looks better than slax and remembers me my first days with linux

i added libhal and also libdbus-qt to start k3b
i think tht cdrecord is missing in puppy 4 , is it true
k3b do not find it
Mark, is it possible to add thees libs to sfs( may be i can edit sfs) and Kopete would be a very useful thing also

i never used the whole kde and only my doughter remembers somitemes of the potat guy game wich we played when i had alt linux
no i use only puppy ( different vrsions frugall install)

[MU]

Mark, is it possible to add thees libs to sfs( may be i can edit sfs) and Kopete would be a very useful thing also

with SFS-Combiner:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26097

But the cleaner way will be, to build from scratch using my buildsystem.
You could start with only such packages:

amarok-1.4.9.1-i486-1.tgz
arts-1.5.9-i486-2.tgz
cdrdao-1.2.1-i486-1.tgz
dvd+rw-tools-7.1-i486-1.tgz
k3b-1.0.4-i486-3.tgz
kdeaddons-3.5.9-i486-2.tgz
kdebase-3.5.9-i486-2.tgz
kdelibs-3.5.9-i486-4.tgz
ruby-1.8.6_p230-i486-1_slack12.1.tgz

Those I used to build the kde3.5.9-micro.sfs.
You could add any slackware package you need to add stuff missing in Puppy 4.

Or you could add files to /packs/_muppy/ from Puppy 3 or whatever.
These will be added additionally to the sfs, that folder is used for stuff, where you don't have matching slackware packages.

Mark

[magerlab]

are those binary packages or source?
and how doe your system work?

[MU]

those are binary packages from slackware.
My script extracts them, executes the inbuilt "doinst.sh" (that usually creates missing symlinks), and then it creates a .sfs from these extracted files.

Mark

[abushcrafter]

Link + Dead

[MU]

3.5.10:
http://www.puppyisos.org/isos/2008-07-t ... ons-by-MU/
user: puppy
password: linux

Have not tried, which dependencies are needed in Puppy, as it was built for a customized puplet "muppy" (no longer active).
For a newer puplet (newyearspup) I made a small sfs with some dependencies:

http://www.puppyisos.org/isos/2008-07-t ... bs_411.sfs

You might add the sfs, then run from a consolewindow:
kicker

This should show, which dependencies miss.

Then find them with:
http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html

Mark